Lie Adjustment Question

[dg9618n]

Hey everyone, I've just come from Golf Galaxy after doing a fitting and have a question to ask you all. I went to buy Callaway X2 Hot irons and was told that I need my lie adjusted 4 degrees while Callaway only offers 2 degree lie adjustments. I was then told that all but Ping have the 2 degree limit. So my question is, do I just have the X2 adjusted 2 degrees or should I pay more to get Pings that can be adjusted my full 4 degrees. I'll be spending about $300 more for Ping irons (I'm getting a special deal on the X2 irons). Little about me, this is my second iron set I'm getting fitted. I'm about a 30 handicap (always in the 100s, waiting for that one glorious day of breaking 100 (101 was my closest)) and I try to golf once a week. Currently, I have Callaway X22 tours. Let me know what you guys think. How important is the lie adjustment?

[Jakester23]

Honestly if you shooting those scores the club fit isn't your biggest concern.  I would take the time and money your going to spend on new clubs or a club fitting and put it towards lessons.  As you get better(which you will if you stick around on this site) you swing will most likely change therefore your club fit might change again as your swing improves.  If you want help search this site and start a MY SWING thread.  Theres a ton of very knowledgeable people that are more than willing to help.  Don't take this the worng way I have pissed away a good number of dollars buying club I didn't need because I thought it would help me play better.  The only way to score better is to have a better full swing.  I hope this helps and I hope you stick around. I joined this site a few years ago and it has honestly changed whole view on this sport.

Sincerely,

Jake

[dg9618n]

Honestly if you shooting those scores the club fit isn't your biggest concern.  I would take the time and money your going to spend on new clubs or a club fitting and put it towards lessons.  As you get better(which you will if you stick around on this site) you swing will most likely change therefore your club fit might change again as your swing improves.  If you want help search this site and start a MY SWING thread.  Theres a ton of very knowledgeable people that are more than willing to help.  Don't take this the worng way I have pissed away a good number of dollars buying club I didn't need because I thought it would help me play better.  The only way to score better is to have a better full swing.  I hope this helps and I hope you stick around. I joined this site a few years ago and it has honestly changed whole view on this sport.  Sincerely, Jake

Thanks for your response. I was looking online and I read that fitted clubs (lie adjusting specifically) was especially important for beginners and is helpful to bring scores downs. It made sense to me but what you wrote makes sense too. For my skill level, 2 degrees won't affect my play? When I was being fitted, almost all my hits were right in the sweet spot, which made me think the fitting was helpful. However, as a rookie, I'll secede to the better players here. Will new clubs really be a waste?

[Jakester23]

Not necessarily a waste but maybe not your best money spent. I personally don't have a ton of disposable income so I have to optimize where I spend my money. The whole concept of the lie angle affecting your shots a lot is kinda lost on me since your almost never hitting off a perfect flat lie. Most of the tee boxes on cheaper courses aren't even perfectly flat so even on a tee box your lie might not be the same as at the stores. If you can afford it and want new clubs by all means go for it. One thing I forgot to mention is confidence is very important part of this game as well. If your current clubs don't inspire confidence maybe they need to be retired.

[Golfingdad]

None of the above.  What's wrong with the x22's??  I played my entire life (until a couple of years ago) with very ill-fitting irons and played just fine with them.  Save your money for now.  (Or spend it on lessons/practice)

[MS256]

I don't know why you can't buy the clubs with the lie angle you need???? According to Calloway's site the X2 Hots can be ordered with: 3 Flat (Yellow) 2 Flat (Red 1 Flat (Gold) Standard 1 Up (Green) 2 Up (White) 3 Up (Blue) http://www.callawaygolf.com/golf-clubs/irons/irons-2014-x2-hot-pro.html Surely you fall somewhere in there and the lie angle can probably be adjusted another degree or two if there was a need. If you are going to spend the money for new clubs they might as well fit you.

[vangator]

You didn'y say whether it was 4 deg upright or flat. You're either 8 feet tall, 4 feet tall or have arms that drag on the ground or arms like a tyranasaur. :) Just kidding. I would go with clubs that are forged with the proper lie. A club that is bent can lose it bend over time.

[Patch]

Perhaps you might be able to change your grip on the club to accommodate an extra 2 degrees? I don't know it that is possible, but it might be. If it is, then you only need to adjust the club 2 degrees with your hand grip taking care of the other two degrees. What about adjusting the club lengths?

[trickyputt]

Its trigonometry if you want to do it yourself. Its easiest if you have a favorite club, one you drop on the green consistently. You need to know its specs, the lie and length for example. Then use this trig calculator or one like it. The degrees inside a tri equal 180, so your lie and your optimum hand angle are both known if you know your favorite clubs lie. Anyway, if you have cast clubs that are unbendable or limited bend, just use that oem lie angle and back out your optimum length. http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp If you dont have the vertical or need it, put your favorite club against a wall with the head level on the floor and measure to the hole in the end of the grip.

[iacas]

Its trigonometry if you want to do it yourself. Its easiest if you have a favorite club, one you drop on the green consistently. You need to know its specs, the lie and length for example. Then use this trig calculator or one like it. The degrees inside a tri equal 180, so your lie and your optimum hand angle are both known if you know your favorite clubs lie. Anyway, if you have cast clubs that are unbendable or limited bend, just use that oem lie angle and back out your optimum length.

Be careful though as the lie angle only really matters at impact, and so a static measurement at setup is only going to get you in the neighborhood.

[waldo]

Its trigonometry if you want to do it yourself. Its easiest if you have a favorite club, one you drop on the green consistently. You need to know its specs, the lie and length for example. Then use this trig calculator or one like it. The degrees inside a tri equal 180, so your lie and your optimum hand angle are both known if you know your favorite clubs lie. Anyway, if you have cast clubs that are unbendable or limited bend, just use that oem lie angle and back out your optimum length. http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp If you dont have the vertical or need it, put your favorite club against a wall with the head level on the floor and measure to the hole in the end of the grip.

I am not certain this would provide accurate results. The offset and sole demensions are going to affect the lie and loft calculations, and those variables influence the playing length of a club. That's why club rulers and lie/loft machines are used to make more accurate measurements. Back to OP, four degrees is a boat load of lie adjustment. When a player is that extreme it would suggest they might need a length and lie adjustment. Add or subtract an inch and add or subtract 2 degrees, or what ever combination gets you what your need. As prior poster humorously suggested a 4 degree change suggest your either 8 feet tall or 4 feet tall :)

[WUTiger]

... I was then told that all but Ping have the 2 degree limit. ..

Not true. On irons, TaylorMade can go plus-or-minus 4 degrees on lie angle.

Callaway and Adams can go plus-or-minus 3 degrees. (And, Adams hybrids have long hosels, and Adams can bend the lie angles plus-or-minus 2 degrees).

To find out the limits on bending lie angle, check the manufacturer's web site for the model you're considering.

Lie angle can influence ball flight. If the lie angle is too upright for you, you will miss to the left; too flat, miss to the right. Assuming you have a fairly consistent swing, lie angle and proper shaft length work together to help deliver square contact.

Here's a geometric explanation of lie angle effect from TST 2013:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

[PirateJim]

Hey everyone, I've just come from Golf Galaxy after doing a fitting and have a question to ask you all. I went to buy Callaway X2 Hot irons and was told that I need my lie adjusted 4 degrees while Callaway only offers 2 degree lie adjustments. I was then told that all but Ping have the 2 degree limit. So my question is, do I just have the X2 adjusted 2 degrees or should I pay more to get Pings that can be adjusted my full 4 degrees. I'll be spending about $300 more for Ping irons (I'm getting a special deal on the X2 irons).

Little about me, this is my second iron set I'm getting fitted. I'm about a 30 handicap (always in the 100s, waiting for that one glorious day of breaking 100 (101 was my closest)) and I try to golf once a week. Currently, I have Callaway X22 tours.

Let me know what you guys think. How important is the lie adjustment?

You've told us about your game and handicap, but I'm very curious why you need a 4 degree lie adjustment.  Are you much taller or shorter than "average" whatever that is?  Have really long/short arms?  If none of the above, I think the suggestion of keeping your old clubs and getting some lessons is a very good one.  A swing that is way out of whack could, I believe, cause the lie angle to seem that far off.

My suggestion would be to get a couple of lessons under your belt and ask the pro if your shot patterns suggest that your clubs have an incorrect lie angle.  If I recall, too flat will tend to push shots to the right (for a right hander) while too steep will cause a pull to the left.  If the pro thinks it might help, go look for someone in your area that does club repairs (not necessarily someone with a vested interest in selling you some different clubs) and get the lie tested and adjusted as needed on your current sticks.  The pro may be able to recommend just that sort of shop, and some pro shops may be able to do it on-site, it mainly takes the right piece of equipment.  That should not be a huge expense.  Then keep at the lessons.  I see you say you try to play weekly, but you don't mention how often you practice...  A lesson every week or so, and a few range sessions in between would almost certainly do your game a lot more good than a new set of clubs.

[jusanothajoe]

If you can afford new clubs you can get fit for some G20's and save a little money. I broke down got fit for some Pings

and I am playing better than I ever have. Having confidence in my clubs seems to help.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="trickyputt" url="/t/75635/lie-adjustment-question#post_1015844"] Its trigonometry if you want to do it yourself. Its easiest if you have a favorite club, one you drop on the green consistently. You need to know its specs, the lie and length for example. Then use this trig calculator or one like it. The degrees inside a tri equal 180, so your lie and your optimum hand angle are both known if you know your favorite clubs lie. Anyway, if you have cast clubs that are unbendable or limited bend, just use that oem lie angle and back out your optimum length.[/QUOTE] Be careful though as the lie angle only really matters at impact, and so a static measurement at setup is only going to get you in the neighborhood.

I couldnt agree more. The variables are three each. Loft lie and length alone is too much, just right, and too little each. That alone is 3x3x3=27 possibilities. Add shaft deflection for an additional x3, plane for another x3, etc. Steepness of swing, lag, you name it. But the journey starts somewhere.

[MS256]

Since we all seem to be guessing: What lie angle do you need? Do you mean the particular set they had would need to be adjusted 4 degrees? From Standard or from something else? Surely not 4 extra degrees past the -3 and +3 that are already available?

[dg9618n]

I was hitting a lie board and the tape showed I was hitting the toe. I was using a standard set at the time and the pro said I'd need to adjust upright by 4 degrees from standard. Granted, I only swung 10-20 times, but they all showed me hitting the toe with consistent sweet spot hits. Since I was hitting the sweet spot, the pro was weary to adjust the length of the club. I'm only 6'3" so I have no idea why I need such a big loft adjustment. I read online that I might be attacking the ball at impact and not swinging threw the zone which might be why I'm digging into the toe but who knows! I'm starting to think that lessons might be the way to go after all I've read. I only play once a week and do maybe 1 range visit between outings so I'm not that active. Lessons and more practice might be the way to go. Unless you guys think differently???

[trickyputt]

Yeah once I found out that I was the influence on dynamic loft, I realized I better get over the ball focus and just pay attention to the ball flight. That way I gave somethin actually useful to gauge all this technical stuff against, because there can be so much that its too much to keep up with.