While We're Young?

[Zachry Michael]

Just got back from a tournament. 6 hours and 45 minutes to finish 18. How do you play any sort of decent golf if it takes that long?

I also struggle with slow pace of play, and tend to shoot worse the longer I'm waiting. Anyone have suggestions on how to cope with the slow play while still remaining focused on your next shot? Got behind 3 sets of ladies foursomes, round took two and a half hours for 9 holes during twilight!

[oregongolfguy]

Pace of play can be a bother.  But I have gotten to the point where I don't let it bother me anymore except for rare circumstances.  I look at the views, look at my yardage book, visit with my playing partners, get a drink of water, make some practice swings working on different parts of my swing etc.. When its clear I move into my pre shot routine and let er rip.

By not worrying about it I stay in my game a lot better and it doesn't bother my scores, even though I am a pretty fast player by nature.

[dave s]

Because its part of etiquette. If you're holding up the players behind you, let them through. Pretty simple really.

If the guy is playing faster than you, it wont take him 15 minutes to play through....

No it's not that simple.  Let's say there is a group in front of me that I'm right up against.  What good can come from letting someone 'play through?'  I wait 15 minutes for you to 'play through,' then wait on you.  MOST of the time, you're not going anywhere unless you can play through every group on the course. Realistically, this is just not going to happen.  The solution is as mentioned, get a first-off tee time.

dave

[Kieran123]

No it's not that simple.  Let's say there is a group in front of me that I'm right up against.  What good can come from letting someone 'play through?'  I wait 15 minutes for you to 'play through,' then wait on you.  MOST of the time, you're not going anywhere unless you can play through every group on the course. Realistically, this is just not going to happen.  The solution is as mentioned, get a first-off tee time.

dave

No, the solution is for everyone to hurry up.

[Cool Breeze]

No it's not that simple.  Let's say there is a group in front of me that I'm right up against.  What good can come from letting someone 'play through?'  I wait 15 minutes for you to 'play through,' then wait on you.  MOST of the time, you're not going anywhere unless you can play through every group on the course. Realistically, this is just not going to happen.  The solution is as mentioned, get a first-off tee time.

dave

I think you're trying to put it all in one neat box and that's rarely applicable.

The fact of the matter is, sometimes it is beneficial to allow people to play through and sometimes it would be pointless.

Both sides can be jerks sometimes.

If there are several pairings in front of you that you are waiting on and someone is whining about playing through, they're a jerk.

If it is wide open in front of you and you refuse to let much faster players through, you're the jerk.

This is a gentleman's game.  We should conduct ourselves as gentlemen (or ladies) whichever side of the situation we fall on that particular day.  Have fun playing golf and show a little consideration for your fellow golfers.

It can go both ways.

[David in FL]

Just throwing out a few numbers here for fun. Lets say it takes (on average) a golfer 3 minutes for each shot. This 3 minutes would include waiting for  your partners to tee off at each hole, then walking/riding  to the ball on each subsequent shot and hitting it again. 3 minutes is not that long. If the golfer shoots an 80, that's 240 minutes, or 4 hours. 80 is a great score. Heck, the pros even shoot an 80 every so often. Using this scenario, a 6 hour round is still under 5 minutes per shot.

Half of those 80 shots are chips and putts. If you're taking 3 minutes to hit your 20 foot putt, then another 3 to walk up and tap in, you're gonna get beat with a rusty wedge on most courses! ;-)

[dave s]

No, the solution is for everyone to hurry up.

Ahh, the PERFECT solution and you are exactly right. I tend to play behind the 4 guys playing from the tips on the final round of the US Open.  None of whom are in contention, or capable of breaking 100 from the back tees. When this happens, I locate the pro shop number on the score card, pull out the cell phone, call and ask for a ranger to visit the group.  Works every time.

In all fairness to the topic, I grew up on golf with a teaching professional dad.  I learned about golf, etiquette, and played hundreds of rounds with a guy who shot 75 or better until the day he passed.  Here are a couple of examples where 'playing through' makes no sense.

Few weeks back I'm playing in a 4-some with my wife and another couple.  Two 20-somethings come up on us fairly quickly.  We had already teed off on a hole and we GLADLY allowed them to play through.  Both hit bombs and were gone in minutes.  We caught them at the next tee.  They were trying to play through the group who was in front of us, but unsuccessfully.  The course came to a grinding halt, with us getting to know the two guys better and better on each tee box until we finished the round.

Playing on vacation in FL.  The old codgers behind us were starting to hit into the wife and me on two consecutive holes.  I drove back and explained to one cart that we're playing as fast as we can go and that there are two foursomes in front of us.  His response?  "There's no way in hell four should be playing faster than two," (referring to me and my wife) and that we should speed up.

We get to the next tee box and roaring up and AROUND us is the foursome behind us.  The group in front of us was just driving off the tee box!  I go up and politely said, 'sorry fellas, you're not playing through today.'  They took off and went to another hole, I guess.

The pace of golf almost everywhere I play in NE Ohio is 3.5 - 4.5 hours.  3.5 is a nice leisurely pace where we're not waiting to tee off on most holes and not waiting long in the fairway.  More importantly, we're not holding anyone up, either. At 4.5 hours, we're waiting minutes on most every tee and waiting in most fairways.  Golf becomes painful AFTER the 4.5 hour mark.  You lose any rhythm for the game, concentration is gone, bad swings start to rule and an overall bad round ensues.  It's just part of the game.  I RARELY see 'playing through' or allowing others to 'play through' as a solution to pace of play anywhere, anytime.

dave

[dave s]

Originally Posted by Cool Breeze

The fact of the matter is, sometimes it is beneficial to allow people to play through and sometimes it would be pointless.

If it is wide open in front of you and you refuse to let much faster players through, you're the jerk.

This is a gentleman's game.  We should conduct ourselves as gentlemen (or ladies) whichever side of the situation we fall on that particular day.  Have fun playing golf and show a little consideration for your fellow golfers.

By all means and could not agree MORE with your statements.  Don't get me wrong, if a 2-some comes up behind us quickly with nobody in front of us, by all means it's, 'let 'er rip, boys!'  They're usually gone in 5 minutes.  No issue at all.

I think most here believe it's their RIGHT, (or RULE as some have mentioned) to play through another group, regardless of the situation, as long as THEY are playing faster than the group in front of them.  As you correctly stated, sometimes it just doesn't make sense.  In my experience MOST of the time allowing others to play through doesn't make sense.  When we are caught from behind, I let the group understand what's in front of us that allowed them to catch us.

dave

[Cool Breeze]

Quote:

Golf becomes painful AFTER the 4.5 hour mark.

I agree 100%.

I also agree that in the situations you mentioned, playing through would have been absolutely pointless.

The faster players have to realize that too in those situations.

[Dave2512]

Honestly if I start catching a group ahead I often do whatever I can to stay back if there is nobody behind me. I played 9 last night and had a guy in front wave me through on #9 and it was my last hole. No doubt he had no idea I was just playing 9 but he waved and scurried under a tree to wait so I had to either hit or wait for him to come out. But a single waving another single through is crazy. I chose to hit but I really didn't want to. I was playing well and really wanted to take my time. It was a reachable par 5 and there were people on the green that hadn't started putting yet. So I hit and then rolled out to wait. I told him it was my last hole and I would be very slow to make my par because I had a shot at a personal best of 35 on that side and would not rush because he waved me through. I ended up playing it like a 3 shot par 5 and took my time with my putts because it broke my rhythm so he waited.

[turtleback]

Agree with this 100%.

I don't expect the Red Sea to part in front of me.  I just want people to be considerate when it's feasible.

I am considerate of faster groups.  I frequently play in 4-somes that average 4 hour rounds.  If a single or a pair of players come up behind us and are obviously having to wait, I will wait at the next tee box and let them play through.

I'm not expecting miracles.  On busy days, sometimes it wouldn't make sense to play through because you'd just be waiting on someone different at the next tee.

The whole issue of letting someone play through depends primarily on common sense and common courtesy.  Unfortunately both are misnomers as both sense and courtesy are becoming more and more UNcommon.  Even here on the board we have people who, if you listen to their rhetoric, are exactly those guys who will not ever let someone through.

Most golfers are reasonable about allowing faster golfers to play through and also play at a decent speed themselves.

That has not been my experience  And frankly if it were true there would be no pace of play problem.

Very true, most folks are nice and thoughtful and it is rarely an issue.

Also agree that ignorance is easily remedied through education.  I think a lot of people really do love the game of golf, its just that when they're starting out they don't know the rules and don't know proper etiquette.  Those people will learn and will gladly embrace the proper way to do things.

I didn't always know the rules and etiquette.  I love the game, so I embraced it as I learned.

If ignorance were easily remediated through education then there would be no pace of play issue as just about every course I've played has posters up, signs in the cart, notices on scorecards, etc.  Slow play is a mindset, not ignorance  We see it here on the board when people seem to think it is unreasonable to think that golf should be able to be played on the vast majority of courses in under 4 hours.  POP has been an issue for years and the USGA has an active campaign, yet on this and other golf boards I actually see more people defending slow play than ever before..

No it's not that simple.  Let's say there is a group in front of me that I'm right up against.  What good can come from letting someone 'play through?'  I wait 15 minutes for you to 'play through,' then wait on you.  MOST of the time, you're not going anywhere unless you can play through every group on the course. Realistically, this is just not going to happen.  The solution is as mentioned, get a first-off tee time.

dave

I don't think anyone suggested that you should let someone play through when you have a group in front of you.  And if you limit letting people play through to situations where there is a clear hole ahead of you the delay shouldn't be more than a couple of minutes.

[Cool Breeze]

Quote:

If ignorance were easily remediated through education then there would be no pace of play issue as just about every course I've played has posters up, signs in the cart, notices on scorecards, etc.  Slow play is a mindset, not ignorance.

Well, one does have to care and want to become educated on the subject.

The education statement was more geared towards general golf etiquette than POP.

Like the other day my wife drove my cart around for an afternoon 9-holes.  She pulled flags and stuff like that for me.

On the first green she pulled the flag and stepped directly in my line.

I politely explained it to her and it was all good.

That's the kind of thing I mean by ignorance and education.

You are correct, slow play is a different animal most of the time.

[Dave2512]

I don't think the golfers out there for fun care about anything but having fun. Even if they know they are slow they paid to be out there and probably want to be there as long as possible. For them playing golf is like going to a theme park. I see people laughing it up and having a grand old time taking ten shots to get it in the hole. The only people I know concerned about POP are usually the serious types that play to chase a handicap and improve.

[Zeph]

When playing as a single, I sometimes skip holes or rearrange their order.

Today I played the back 9 like this: 10 - 11 - 16 - 17 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 18

I ran into a foursome at 11 and saw more groups ahead of them, so I didn't want to push them and try going through. Instead, I moved over to 16, which was vacant, then 17 before I looped back again to 12. Met up with the foursome again at 14 and waited through the short par 3 15 before I went for 18.

I got my round over in 2 1/2 hours and didn't have to go through anyone.

[late347]

I don't think the golfers out there for fun care about anything but having fun. Even if they know they are slow they paid to be out there and probably want to be there as long as possible. For them playing golf is like going to a theme park. I see people laughing it up and having a grand old time taking ten shots to get it in the hole. The only people I know concerned about POP are usually the serious types that play to chase a handicap and improve.

Haha so you're saying that golf ought not to be fun at all?

Only way to enjoy golf according to you is just "being serious about golf" and  not enjoying the game, not enjoying the outdoors and not enjoying the social aspect?

Honestly I play the best golf when I just relax and enjoy the game. And enjoy the views and the company of the other players... I think the results will come, with deliberate practice at the range and trying your best at the actual golf course. It doesn't always work out perfectly but at least you gave it a go.

That being said, I oftentimes simply play in a foursome group so we're not exactly the speedgolfers that everyone claims to be online.

This week when I played with: dad, me, an older lady, and her young grandson. It wasn't the fastest round because the young lad was only starting golf but he played well enough with his ballstriking from the short tees.

[Rewster66]

One local course I went to the other day actually had little signs in every cart that you can hold up that has this very statement on them. "While We Are Young". lol

God Bless!!! Ray