Snark and Assorted Topics

[Mr. Desmond]

Gunther, since you're in Dallas, let's meet up in the Fall at Texas Star... don't know who will survive ... probably you since I'm the aging middle-aged guy.

I've thought about this topic previously, and I think Erik and Mike expect a higher quality discussion than other golf sites. It is what distinguishes this site from other golf sites.

Sometimes we come in here and we're doing 2-3 things at once, and our discussion is weak. Erik will come in and question our analysis and/or off-topic discussion. Yes, it's a surprise when the owner questions you in a direct way, and sometimes it feels less than flattering. But that's my issue, not his. Our posting styles and manner are all different -- we're human.  And direct and honest as he can be is Erik's style as I perceive it. I've always thought he meant well even if we did not agree. It makes me take a deep breath, a second look at the thread, and an objective analysis of my posts, and then I see his point, say my "mea culpa" or acknowledge his point of view, and go forward with the discussion in a positive manner. At least, that's the plan. Doesn't always work -- I'm human....

[Patch]

I was removed from a golf forum several years ago. The folks running the site were promoting some drink that was supposed to make you a better golfer. They had all kinds of connections in the golfing world. Gave away all kinds of nice prizes. Had member golf outings in various parts of the country. At some point the folks promoting the drink said it was so good that they "just had to have it first thing in the morning" and through out the day. I mentioned something to the effect that it sounded like a drink that could become habit forming. Just a simple remark. That was it for me on that golf forum. They ran me off, post haste. (We also had some previous words about their resident swing guru flaming  other members swing advice, then changing the verbiage, and using it for their own swing guru instruction)

That's when I decided that any forum I was posting on, I would not care what other members of the forum thought of my posts. Good, bad, or indifferent. Did not matter what the subject matter of the forum was about. I post what I know is good information, and that's good enough for me. My opinions are my own, and not meant to crinkle anyone's shorts. Different opinions on any forum are not a life, and death struggle. Opinions differ in context from one individual, and are, in some instances, just another form of entertainment for those folks involved.

Back in April when I felt I was physically able to get back into the game of golf, I googled for golf forums and TST came up. I decided to give it try. I just wanted to see what might have changed while I was away from the game. As it turns out not much had changed over the past few years. IMHO, TST is a decent site, with great members/contributors, and from what I have  seen so far, has the test of time on it's side.

[Gunther]

Gunther, since you're in Dallas, let's meet up in the Fall at Texas Star... don't know who will survive ... probably you since I'm the aging middle-aged guy. :-$ I've thought about this topic previously, and I think Erik and Mike expect a higher quality discussion than other golf sites. It is what distinguishes this site from other golf sites. Sometimes we come in here and we're doing 2-3 things at once, and our discussion is weak. Erik will come in and question our analysis and/or off-topic discussion. Yes, it's a surprise when the owner questions you in a direct way, and sometimes it feels less than flattering. But that's my issue, not his. Our posting styles and manner are all different -- we're human.  And direct and honest as he can be is Erik's style as I perceive it. I've always thought he meant well even if we did not agree. It makes me take a deep breath, a second look at the thread, and an objective analysis of my posts, and then I see his point, say my "mea culpa" or acknowledge his point of view, and go forward with the discussion in a positive manner. At least, that's the plan. Doesn't always work -- I'm human....

You know, I've never made it to Texas Star but have heard great things. I'd be happy to meet you, provided we don't talk politics. ;) And I too am middle aged but I evidently have what my son calls, "old man strength". Not sure what that is but you might want to beware around me. Kidding, of course, I'm harmless as a cat. My game is currently under construction but maybe in the fall we can hook up out there. Seems there may be a few Dal members here, perhaps an outing?

[Mr. Desmond]

You know, I've never made it to Texas Star but have heard great things. I'd be happy to meet you, provided we don't talk politics. ;) And I too am middle aged but I evidently have what my son calls, "old man strength". Not sure what that is but you might want to beware around me. Kidding, of course, I'm harmless as a cat.

My game is currently under construction but maybe in the fall we can hook up out there. Seems there may be a few Dal members here, perhaps an outing?

Better take it to a pm, as we are off topic.

But quickly, Texas Star closed for the summer to pull the greens and  plant a new hybrid strain to protect it from our heat. Will re-open in September... Don't know if there is a North Texas Group yet. We need to look.

Back on topic --  it's golf. Let's have fun.

[Ernest Jones]

You started a thread, effectively addressing the entire community, myself included. If you only wanted to address a select few you should have gone with a PM.

You realize that he didn't start the thread right?

Erik moved it here because it's OT on another thread, so no, he didn't start it.

I understand... I was just clarifying why he shouldn't get flack for starting the thread...anyway, moving on back to the original schedules program!

You know, I've been thinking about this (I'm an a-hole but I'm a reflective one) and I think @iacas should have given some indication that the post had been moved to its own thread. Calling someone out in a thread (whether justified or not) is one thing, but starting a thread to call someone out is VERY different. While I still disagree with @Gunther 's POV in this particular instance I find it far less obnoxious as a post responding to a post than as a thread started to bitch about a fellow member***. The italics are not what @Gunther did and that changes my viewpoint of him. I agree with @Abu3baid that he shouldn't catch flack for starting this thread, because he didn't.

Kinda like if @Golfingdad calls me a jerk in a thread, that's not very nice GD, but if GD starts a thread called "Ernest Jones is a jerk" well...clearly there is a big difference between these two ways of dealing with me and one of them is over the line.

***and Erik is a fellow member which we sometimes forget, he may be the owner but he still participates and uses the forum much like the rest of us and deserves the same courtesies and should be subject to the same expectations.

[billchao]

You know, I've been thinking about this (I'm an a-hole but I'm a reflective one) and I think @iacas should have given some indication that the post had been moved to its own thread

You're kind of off your game today bro. [quote name="iacas" url="/t/76036/snark-and-assorted-topics#post_1025938"] Now, then, this is off-topic, so I'll move this to the Grill Room. People are welcome to share their thoughts, just as I've shared mine. Go ahead. [/quote]

[Jeremie Boop]

You're kind of off your game today bro.

That's not what I think he meant, he's saying there should have been an indicator in this thread not the thread it was pulled from. That line just made it look, to me, that this whole thread was moved, not started based off that post.

[Gunther]

You know, I've been thinking about this (I'm an a-hole but I'm a reflective one) and I think @iacas should have given some indication that the post had been moved to its own thread. Calling someone out in a thread (whether justified or not) is one thing, but starting a thread to call someone out is VERY different. While I still disagree with @Gunther 's POV in this particular instance I find it far less obnoxious as a post responding to a post than as a thread started to bitch about a fellow member***. The italics are not what @Gunther did and that changes my viewpoint of him. I agree with @Abu3baid that he shouldn't catch flack for starting this thread, because he didn't.  Kinda like if @Golfingdad calls me a jerk in a thread, that's not very nice GD, but if GD starts a thread called "Ernest Jones is a jerk" well...clearly there is a big difference between these two ways of dealing with me and one of them is over the line. ***and Erik is a fellow member which we sometimes forget, he may be the owner but he still participates and uses the forum much like the rest of us and deserves the same courtesies and should be subject to the same expectations.

Hey, thanks. I think he did mention it in his initial response to me so I didn't think much of it. Something would have to really tweak me off to start a thread bitching at another member. Can't imagine getting that upset cuz like I said, I have thick skin, lol.

[billchao]

That's not what I think he meant, he's saying there should have been an indicator in this thread not the thread it was pulled from. That line just made it look, to me, that this whole thread was moved, not started based off that post.

Ah I get it now, I read that wrong. Thanks.

[Ernest Jones]

That's not what I think he meant, he's saying there should have been an indicator in this thread not the thread it was pulled from. That line just made it look, to me, that this whole thread was moved, not started based off that post.

Yeah, I thought the thread had been started in the Instruction Forum (or somewhere else) and then moved to the Grill Room, that happens frequently with threads that are initiated in the wrong sub-forum.

Hey, thanks. I think he did mention it in his initial response to me so I didn't think much of it.

Something would have to really tweak me off to start a thread bitching at another member. Can't imagine getting that upset cuz like I said, I have thick skin, lol.

It's all good. You can see how I thought this was a dick move when I was under the impression that you had started this as a stand alone thread. I still think you're misreading Erik (you're not the first and certainly won't be the last) but that's for you guys to work out, or not...

[Golfingdad]

Con't, Android messed me up again.

You implied his stupidity, I.e., doesn't apply more than very basic thinking, and in a particularly snarky and subtle way. Own that, you do it often, typically when you become exasperated at someone's stubbornness in sticking to a position.

@mmvac never responds this way. Hell, he once even got frustrated with something I said and let me know it but in a straightforward simple way, no attack, just a point.

My point is, as the owner of the site and it's moderator at times, you often admonish others for their intolerant posts. I find it potentially hypocritical because as I mentioned, I think you are one of the most active practioners of snark. I'd only ask to consider this when you become frustrated with someone. Not me though, fire away at me, esp on those rare occasions I am incorrect.

A couple of things here.  I don't believe that you're giving Erik nearly enough credit in regards to "owning it."  In your first post, you played the "go ahead, trash me" card, which is frustrating in itself, because that never happens, so why that card gets played so often, I have no idea.  And on top of that, instead of trashing you, not only did he respond by admitting that he could stand to be less blunt with people, he started a new thread that is basically a green light for people to air their greivances against him.  If I'm doing that, it's to learn more about myself and what others think and to see what I can do to improve off of it.  Oh, and in a gesture of appeasement (no frickin idea if thats actually a saying, but it sounds good ;)) he went ahead and re-wrote the offending post.

Secondly, in trying to read it while pretending to not know any of the history of the thread, I can see how it reads pretty snarky.  But it's obvious enough (to me, at least) that when somebody writes something so vague, and directs it to somebody else in particular, that it's got some backstory.  (And Erik obviously recognizes this too because he editted it)  And if I don't fully understand the post, then it's probably a fair assumption that I don't know that backstory and should probably stay out of it.

That's not what I think he meant, he's saying there should have been an indicator in this thread not the thread it was pulled from. That line just made it look, to me, that this whole thread was moved, not started based off that post.

Actually, that line appears in his first post in this thread as well.  Although, I agree that it probably would make sense in these cases to either add a tiny note to the title or put that line in the OP above the post that prompted the move.

[Always an 80]

Or we could be an administrator and simply ban someone from a post when they expose weakness in our logic.

[CarlSpackler]

Or we could be an administrator and simply ban someone from a post when they expose weakness in our logic.

I'm not sure if you are insinuating something, but I haven't seen that on this site.

[Always an 80]

I'm not sure if you are insinuating something, but I haven't seen that on this site.

Guess it depends on who your friends are.  Look closer.

[Ernest Jones]

Guess it depends on who your friends are.  Look closer.

I call bullshit.

[Golfingdad]

I call bullshit.

Agree.  Although, to clarify, I assume that what @Always an 80 means to say is not "ban from a post" but rather "restrict from a thread?"

Regardless, what people don't seem to realize when they make these claims is that we all play by the same rules.  I know of several people who are long time members or "friends" with the Admins who've been restricted, or who've been penalty boxed, or who've been outright banned.

[Hardballs]

I lurked around on a few golf sites for a year or two, never posting, just reading tips and usefull info! When I came across this site it was soon apparent that it's the best one out there, it has a wealth of knowledge and instruction from some really clued up guys! I was soon checking in regularly and still do and my game is improving because of it! I don't kiss anyone's ass but it's quite obvious to me that Eric and mike, amongst several others, make this site what it is, and I am, until now, quietly grateful for all their efforts! I got some abuse when I first came on because people thought I was a bit... Unlikeable? My comments are always light hearted in nature, but! they can and do appear different in writing! (Something else I've learnt on here!) And so, on this forum, and others I presume, we should all leave our egos at the door and jump in! To me, it seems to be simply about learning, and having a bit of fun, and if you insist on bringing your ego with you, prepare to have bashed a bit!

[Ernest Jones]

Agree.  Although, to clarify, I assume that what @Always an 80 means to say is not "ban from a post" but rather "restrict from a thread?" Regardless, what people don't seem to realize when they make these claims is that we all play by the same rules.  I know of several people who are long time members or "friends" with the Admins who've been restricted, or who've been penalty boxed, or who've been outright banned.

I've been in the Penalty Box and I'm both a Forum Leader and a Supporter. So again, I call bullshit.