What Would You Shoot if a PGA Tour Pro Drove the Ball for You?

[14ledo81]

Interesting idea... I had the opportunity to do this once.

I used to play the occasional round with Casey Martin (during the great golf cart debate era) and played one round using each other's tee shot.

I had commented that his near 300 yard drives gave him a distinct advantage. He called bullshit.

This was at Poppy Ridge in NorCal- as I recall, the two 9's we played measured near 7000 yards with a 140 slope.

Funny but we both shot the same (+/=) that we shot the week before. It amounted to about a 2 club difference on the approach and he was as accurate with a 6 as I was with an 8.

The differences were not in the distance but the short game. I agree with caniac6.... my scores would have been lower if he had chipped & putted for me.

I don't doubt the statement in bold above.

The real questions is this, "Are you more accurate with an 8 iron than a 6?"

Assuming the obvious, the next questions is this,  "How come you did not score any better?"

[Lihu]

I don't doubt the statement in bold above.

The real questions is this, "Are you more accurate with an 8 iron than a 6?"

Assuming the obvious, the next questions is this,  "How come you did not score any better?"

I'm guessing he's pretty good with an 8i as a 4 handicap, but possibly not as accurate with the 8i as the pro is with a 6i? Plus, at his handicap we're only talking about a few strokes over par. Also, the short game becomes a bigger factor for low single digit handicaps.

[DeadMan]

Here's what I think about this.

I average a little under 15 over par on a round. That's about 1 birdie, 6 pars, 8 bogeys, 4 doubles or higher (approximately).

I think a pro driving for me would almost completely eliminate doubles or higher. When that happens to me, it's normally a mistake off the tee that makes it impossible to get near the green in regulation. Very rarely will I have a shot at the green that doesn't result in a nGIR. Maybe once a round - maybe. So I think that would move those 4 doubles to 1 double and 3 bogeys at worst.

I think I would likely get 17 or 18 nGIR from a pro driving for me. Once I get a nGIR, I very rarely make a double. So I think I'd have 17 bogeys at worst, and 1 double from this at worst. Also, I would likely be able to get a nGIR in 2 on every par 5. Assuming a normal par 72, I would say that the 4 par 5s are likely 2 pars and 2 birdies.

On the 10 par 4s, I'd say I'd hit 6 GIR. I think I'd make about 6 pars from that. So 6 pars, 3 bogeys, one double. I think the pro would hit 75% of the greens from the distance I play par 3s at. So I'd call that 3 pars, 1 bogey.

Add that all up, that's 11 pars, 2 birdies, 4 bogeys, one double bogey. So I'd be looking at somewhere in the range of a 76. I think that might be a little aggressive. But honestly, I'd think the pro would be leaving me with approach shots where I'd be using a wedge every single time. I don't think I'm all that great with wedges, but I think if they're leaving me about 100 yards, I should be able to hit the green more often than not. When you add in the length advantage on par 5s, I think it's reasonable. Honestly, with a pro driving for me, I'd be really disappointed not to break 80, so this makes sense.

[Lihu]

Here's what I think about this.

I average a little under 15 over par on a round. That's about 1 birdie, 6 pars, 8 bogeys, 4 doubles or higher (approximately).

I think a pro driving for me would almost completely eliminate doubles or higher. When that happens to me, it's normally a mistake off the tee that makes it impossible to get near the green in regulation. Very rarely will I have a shot at the green that doesn't result in a nGIR. Maybe once a round - maybe. So I think that would move those 4 doubles to 1 double and 3 bogeys at worst.

I think I would likely get 17 or 18 nGIR from a pro driving for me. Once I get a nGIR, I very rarely make a double. So I think I'd have 17 bogeys at worst, and 1 double from this at worst. Also, I would likely be able to get a nGIR in 2 on every par 5. Assuming a normal par 72, I would say that the 4 par 5s are likely 2 pars and 2 birdies.

On the 10 par 4s, I'd say I'd hit 6 GIR. I think I'd make about 6 pars from that. So 6 pars, 3 bogeys, one double. I think the pro would hit 75% of the greens from the distance I play par 3s at. So I'd call that 3 pars, 1 bogey.

Add that all up, that's 11 pars, 2 birdies, 4 bogeys, one double bogey. So I'd be looking at somewhere in the range of a 76. I think that might be a little aggressive. But honestly, I'd think the pro would be leaving me with approach shots where I'd be using a wedge every single time. I don't think I'm all that great with wedges, but I think if they're leaving me about 100 yards, I should be able to hit the green more often than not. When you add in the length advantage on par 5s, I think it's reasonable. Honestly, with a pro driving for me, I'd be really disappointed not to break 80, so this makes sense.

Nice analysis.

The thread topic should probably be changed to "If a tour pro made all your tee shots" as not every hole uses a driver.

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I don't doubt the statement in bold above.

The real questions is this, "Are you more accurate with an 8 iron than a 6?"

Assuming the obvious, the next questions is this,  "How come you did not score any better?"

I'm guessing he's pretty good with an 8i as a 4 handicap, but possibly not as accurate with the 8i as the pro is with a 6i? Plus, at his handicap we're only talking about a few strokes over par. Also, the short game becomes a bigger factor for low single digit handicaps.

That wasn't my point.  He has to be more accurate with his 8 iron than his 6.  Thus, if he used the pros drive (that puts him into 8 iron range vs 6), he would score better.

[Dave2512]

Two clubs is huge for me, especially as they get shorter and more lofted. The miss is pretty much limited to slightly left or right unless it's the odd chunk. Even a skulled chip holds the line better than an errant long iron. It may seem severe because it should be routine but a crappy 6 iron might be 40 yards short and far L or R.

[Pretzel]

Two clubs is huge for me, especially as they get shorter and more lofted. The miss is pretty much limited to slightly left or right unless it's the odd chunk. Even a skulled chip holds the line better than an errant long iron. It may seem severe because it should be routine but a crappy 6 iron might be 40 yards short and far L or R.

Agreed. I'll take an 8i approach over a 6i approach any day I can (though I'll also take a wedge over that 8i when I can as well).

[Lihu]

That wasn't my point.  He has to be more accurate with his 8 iron than his 6.  Thus, if he used the pros drive (that puts him into 8 iron range vs 6), he would score better.

Right, I got the point, my point is that an 8i, at least mine at 42 degrees, is way more accurate and spins a lot more than a 34 degree 6i. My 8i is about half the dispersion of my 6i. I would guess a lower handicap would be the same only scaled down in dispersion and longer distances. Like Dave2512 stated 2 clubs is huge.

[billm408]

Not sure why you would doubt this. But my point is that the real difference between us and the pros is not distance but their ability to get up n down from 75-100 yards... Not distance off the tee. Matt Kuchar is a short knocker with an incredible short game. He competes evenly with Bubba Watson & the other long hitters. Distance off the tee is not the separation point. YMMV [quote name="14ledo81" url="/t/76311/what-would-you-shoot-if-a-pga-tour-pro-drove-the-ball-for-you/90#post_1066307"] I don't doubt the statement in bold above. The real questions is this, "Are you more accurate with an 8 iron than a 6?"   Assuming the obvious, the next questions is this,  "How come you did not score any better?" [/quote]

[tmac20]

Not sure why you would doubt this. But my point is that the real difference between us and the pros is not distance but their ability to get up n down from 75-0 yards... Not distance off the tee. Matt Kuchar is a short knocker with an incredible short game. He competes evenly with Bubba Watson & the other long hitters. Distance off the tee is not the separation point. YMMV

Read Mark Broadie's book and you'll reconsider your opinion.

[billm408]

I misread his post and haven't read his book. Not sure I'd reconsider my opinion of the experience, but I'm open to being proven wrong. My answer to his question remains the same... Chipping and putting was the difference. The pros are ungodly good at getting up & down where even the good amateur is not as skilled.

[Dave2512]

Not sure why you would doubt this. But my point is that the real difference between us and the pros is not distance but their ability to get up n down from 75-100 yards... Not distance off the tee.

Matt Kuchar is a short knocker with an incredible short game. He competes evenly with Bubba Watson & the other long hitters. Distance off the tee is not the separation point. YMMV

My guess is his 2013-14 driving distance stats are within 15-20 or so yards of #1, call it one club difference for approach shots.

I misread his post and haven't read his book.

Not sure I'd reconsider my opinion of the experience, but I'm open to being proven wrong.

My answer to his question remains the same... Chipping and putting was the difference. The pros are ungodly good at getting up & down where even the good amateur is not as skilled.

They get up and down well because they are always around the greens.

[tmac20]

I misread his post and haven't read his book. Not sure I'd reconsider my opinion of the experience, but I'm open to being proven wrong. My answer to his question remains the same... Chipping and putting was the difference. The pros are ungodly good at getting up & down where even the good amateur is not as skilled.

So you think that you would shoot a better score if a pro chipped and putted for you than if a pro hit your drives and approach shots?

[Lihu]

I misread his post and haven't read his book. Not sure I'd reconsider my opinion of the experience, but I'm open to being proven wrong. My answer to his question remains the same... Chipping and putting was the difference. The pros are ungodly good at getting up & down where even the good amateur is not as skilled.

My son's coach invited a soon to be tour pro to watch some of the students practice and assess their swings. During this time, he had the opportunity to hit a few shots with various clubs. I am convinced, that even if I could hit 280 yard drives, his tee shots were so much higher quality than other long hitters I've seen that I can safely say that he could shave off significant strokes off my score. If he shot my approaches too, I think I would be left with bump and run and small motion chips and putts. I could probably shoot close to par or better if he made the long shots tee to green with near GIR or GIR. He's about a +5.5 handicap. Now, if someone like Matt Kuchar (who I followed around closely for a couple hours) hit all my tee to green shots I'm almost convinced I could break par on my courses, that is if he doesn't sink the shots on the approach. When you make a living playing or even teaching golf, you're pretty good, and the main separator for them is their long game. Let's expand this further, if a pro hit our drives, then you hit the approaches with 8i or less to GIR or 5 yards off the green and I chipped and putted we have a chance to par my courses. This is given even my sub standard putting.

[newtogolf]

I'd need a pro that drove it mostly in the fairway as the rough on my home course is very penal.  I'm guessing in order to keep it in the fairway they would be around 280 which is about 50 yards more than my average.  I'd probably score about 5 - 7 shots lower than my normal rounds if I played my home course.

I think it would be more helpful for me if the pro took my 2nd shot at least it would be a fun experiment.

[billm408]

My guess is his 2013-14 driving distance stats are within 15-20 or so yards of #1, call it one club difference for approach shots.

They get up and down well because they are always around the greens.

OK, but I think of 20 yards as a 2 club difference.

And as a single digit hcpr, you should be around the greens on your approach too. I know I am.

The difference is that they'll knock the ball in the hole more often. Or leave short tap in putts.

Look at what Rory just did in Bermuda.... dead pulled a left handed shot near the water, flubbed a chip near the green and holed out from the fringe for par.

Even most good amateurs would not have made 5 and it had nothing to do with the drive.

And yes, tmac20, I think most amateurs would have better scores if a pro played their shots from 100 yards and in. I know I would.

My guess is his 2013-14 driving distance stats are within 15-20 or so yards of #1, call it one club difference for approach shots.

They get up and down well because they are always around the greens.

[MS256]

Not sure why you would doubt this. But my point is that the real difference between us and the pros is not distance but their ability to get up n down from 75-100 yards... Not distance off the tee.

Matt Kuchar is a short knocker with an incredible short game. He competes evenly with Bubba Watson & the other long hitters. Distance off the tee is not the separation point. YMMV

But the question in the thread is not how much better the pros could score if a pro hit their tee shot for them or whether we could beat a pro in a contest "from 75-100 yards".

Off topic.

But I did see my boss who's around scratch absolutely smoke a Dot. Com tour player in just such a contest.

They were playing closest to the pin from 100 yards for $1 a shot. After winning the first 5 shots the pro asked him how long he could keep doing that. My boss replied "Until you run out of dollars."

We all know they are better than we are in every aspect of the game.

The question is how much better we could score, and we also all know that we would probably gain distance off of the tee (in some cases a lot of distance) but just as importantly we would gain accuracy off of the tee.

On short courses we may not have much more than pitch shots on a lot of par fours and would be in position to get home in two on most par 5s. The longer the course the more our own inadequacies would show up so the less the pro would benefit us.

[Golfingdad]

Look at what Rory just did in Bermuda.... dead pulled a left handed shot near the water, flubbed a chip near the green and holed out from the fringe for par.

Even most good amateurs would not have made 5 and it had nothing to do with the drive.

It had EVERYTHING to do with the drive.  The poor drive is what caused him to have to try the goofy trick shot in the first place.  A good drive, and even if he hits the same poor approach, when he chips in, its for birdie. :)