2014 Tour Championship Discussion Thread

[RJH999]

Oh Jim Furyk. Another loss.

[Chilli Dipper]

Any chance one of the American Ryder Cup team members discovers an undiagnosed rotator cuff injury in the next week?

[Hammer 4]

YES..... CONGRATZ to Billy Horschel...what a great win!!!

[pepsiplusconker]

He's gonna be one to watch in the Ryder Cup

[Chilli Dipper]

He's gonna be one to watch in the Ryder Cup

If only he was playing...

[FarawayFairways]

A few things

Previous winners who went onto the Ryder Cup have seemingly struggled to 'come back down'. They managed 1.5 pts from 6.

If a young McIlroy who at 25 would be amongst the fitter guys out there described it as "a week too far" you do wonder how the 10 American's who made it to the last 30 will fare with the additional issue of a transatlantic trip and settling in on a very different climate zone

You have to suspect however that we must have seen the end of the early September wildcard pick? My understanding is that Watson could have asked the USPGA to defer his decision, and if he had done so, is it really a stretch to suggest that Chris Kirk and Billy Horschel would be playing instead of Simpson and Mahan/ Bradley. Indeed, Watson in yet another clumsy display of mismanagement has seemingly sent Horschel a text telling him as much, which has found its way into the public domain. I can only imagine what Webb Simpson must feel. Talk about puncturing a players confidence when you need to be building it up

For a mixture of bad luck and bad management you could see five players who you would want there, who won't be there

Tiger Woods, Dustin Johnson, Jason Dufner, Chris Kirk and Billy Horschel (and there might even be a case for Ryan Palmer)

Clearly three of these fall into the category of bad luck, but once you put these names into a hypothetical team and take out the 5 who you'd least want, you perhaps start to get an idea of how America has handicapped themselves already

[Pretzel]

My understanding is that Watson could have asked the USPGA to defer his decision, and if he had done so, is it really a stretch to suggest that Chris Kirk and Billy Horschel would be playing instead of Simpson and Mahan/ Bradley. Indeed, Watson in yet another clumsy display of mismanagement has seemingly sent Horschel a text telling him as much, which has found its way into the public domain.

It's not a display of mismanagement to congratulate someone in a PRIVATE form of communication (the text message was originally only intended for Horschel). It would have been possibly a questionable choice if he had announced it publicly, but a text is usually meant for only the recipient unless a copy of it is also sent to members of the media. You can't blame Watson for private communication becoming public through no effort of his own.

[David in FL]

A few things Previous winners who went onto the Ryder Cup have seemingly struggled to 'come back down'. They managed 1.5 pts from 6. If a young McIlroy who at 25 would be amongst the fitter guys out there described it as "a week too far" you do wonder how the 10 American's who made it to the last 30 will fare with the additional issue of a transatlantic trip and settling in on a very different climate zone You have to suspect however that we must have seen the end of the early September wildcard pick? My understanding is that Watson could have asked the USPGA to defer his decision, and if he had done so, is it really a stretch to suggest that Chris Kirk and Billy Horschel would be playing instead of Simpson and Mahan/ Bradley. Indeed, Watson in yet another clumsy display of mismanagement has seemingly sent Horschel a text telling him as much, which has found its way into the public domain. I can only imagine what Webb Simpson must feel. Talk about puncturing a players confidence when you need to be building it up For a mixture of bad luck and bad management you could see five players who you would want there, who won't be there Tiger Woods, Dustin Johnson, Jason Dufner, Chris Kirk and Billy Horschel (and there might even be a case for Ryan Palmer) Clearly three of these fall into the category of bad luck, but once you put these names into a hypothetical team and take out the 5 who you'd least want, you perhaps start to get an idea of how America has handicapped themselves already

Credit where it's due, you come up with more creative ways to bash Tom Watson than anyone else I can think of. At least you've got that going for you.....

[Mr. Desmond]

Credit where it's due, you come up with more creative ways to bash Tom Watson than anyone else I can think of.

At least you've got that going for you.....

No doubt...

I think 2 weeks of rest will do wonders for some of the guys that were not hot. This game is up and down, and at least they'll be up for it mentally. Billy might be on the way down - $11.4m in winnings and a new child about to pop out .... he'll be out of it mentally.

I think Watson thought it out well. Whether his choices work? Well, that's golf.

[acerimusdux]

Tiger Woods, Dustin Johnson, Jason Dufner, Chris Kirk and Billy Horschel (and there might even be a case for Ryan Palmer)

Clearly three of these fall into the category of bad luck, but once you put these names into a hypothetical team and take out the 5 who you'd least want, you perhaps start to get an idea of how America has handicapped themselves already

None of those guys are any better than the guys already on the team. Nothing wrong with those 5, but there's really no one you could say you would easily want to take out to have any of them. It's not like the Eurpean team, which has really handicapped themselves with a group of 40-something has-beens in Steven Gallacher, Thomas Bjorn, Lee Westwood, and Jamie Donaldson.

In the summer, before we knew the teams, and when Martin Kaymer, Sergio Garcia, and Victor Dubuisson were all playing well, and some of the US golfers were struggling, I can understand why some people thought Europe might end up having the stronger team. But by now, 11 days before the start of it, it seems pretty clear the US has the better team.  By now, Sergio Garcia isn't playing any better than Rickie Fowler, and Martin Kaymer isn't playing any better than Hunter Mahan. Rory is really the only tough matchup on that team, and one guy just can't make that big a difference in this event.

[RJH999]

None of those guys are any better than the guys already on the team. Nothing wrong with those 5, but there's really no one you could say you would easily want to take out to have any of them. It's not like the Eurpean team, which has really handicapped themselves with a group of 40-something has-beens in Steven Gallacher, Thomas Bjorn, Lee Westwood, and Jamie Donaldson. In the summer, before we knew the teams, and when Martin Kaymer, Sergio Garcia, and Victor Dubuisson were all playing well, and some of the US golfers were struggling, I can understand why some people thought Europe might end up having the stronger team. But by now, 11 days before the start of it, it seems pretty clear the US has the better team.  By now, Sergio Garcia isn't playing any better than Rickie Fowler, and Martin Kaymer isn't playing any better than Hunter Mahan. Rory is really the only tough matchup on that team, and one guy just can't make that big a difference in this event.

I wouldn't exactly describe Thomas Bjorn, Stephen Gallacher, and Jamie Donaldson as "40-something has-beens". More like 40-somethings playing the best golf of their life.

[FarawayFairways]

I think Watson thought it out well. Whether his choices work? Well, that's golf.

Thinking it out is just about the last thing Watson could be accussed of.

He called it a “revelation” I’d call it guessing. In fact his justfication had all the conviction of someone who’d been set an examination question they didn’t know the answer to, and which they’d left until last. As the clock ticks away they then decide to scribble anything down by way of an offering and hope for the best. Look at what he actually said;

“I had a revelation this morning. I looked at the last time the Ryder Cup was played and I see Webb Simpson 5&4, Webb Simpson 5&4 and I said ‘that’s got to be the guy’. Looking at last year’s stats for Webb, he ran the table in the fall. The fall begins on 22 September and I think Webb’s the guy.”

In the first case, what he’s actually referring to is a partnerhsip with Bubba Watson. He might also look at the strength of the opposition these 5&4 results were registered against. When the same pairing took on Rose and Poulter, they lost. Tom’s been given an absolute arsenal of statistics to work his way through. Indeed, when justifying his decision to pick Hunter Mahan he even said so,

“If you look at the statistics as I have been for a long time, he led greens in regulation in three of the last four events he played.”

…. and yet he’s seemingly looked at a result with no greater depth to it than wikipedia on the morning that he has to decide, and said “you know what, Webb Simpson won two matches, two years ago”

I’ve got news for him. So did Luke Donald, and his overall cup record is superior to anyone currently active in the America sphere, but McGinlay decided that this wasn’t enough to save him. As regards Tom invoking the autumn solstice, this sounds like a curious mixture of paganism and witchcraft (which might work yet!) It all serves to confirm in my mind at least that Tom was indeed gearing up to pick Tiger Woods.

The text message could easily have offered congratulations without having to invoke the Ryder Cup and the clear inference that he's got at least one of his wildcards wrong and that he would no longer have them on the team

“Why didn’t you play this well before I picked my wildcards?”

Come on..... at best it's naive, tour pros are always going to whisper as are players agents

[jcp1st]

I hope someday the Tour will get the format of the FedEx Cup adjusted to where it's actually exciting to follow.  As it is now, I don't find any drama in following the season-long

progression of points nor do I find the playoffs exciting.  In the eight years since the inception of the Cup, the winner has also been the winner of the Tour Championship which

in my mind means it's essentially a one tournament shoot-out for an $11.5 million payout to the winner.

[jcp1st]

CORRECTION - "In the eight years since the inception of the Cup the winner has also been the winner of the Tour Championship SIX TIMES ......."

[newtogolf]

Thinking it out is just about the last thing Watson could be accussed of.

He called it a “revelation” I’d call it guessing. In fact his justfication had all the conviction of someone who’d been set an examination question they didn’t know the answer to, and which they’d left until last. As the clock ticks away they then decide to scribble anything down by way of an offering and hope for the best. Look at what he actually said;

“I had a revelation this morning. I looked at the last time the Ryder Cup was played and I see Webb Simpson 5&4, Webb Simpson 5&4 and I said ‘that’s got to be the guy’. Looking at last year’s stats for Webb, he ran the table in the fall. The fall begins on 22 September and I think Webb’s the guy.”

In the first case, what he’s actually referring to is a partnerhsip with Bubba Watson. He might also look at the strength of the opposition these 5&4 results were registered against. When the same pairing took on Rose and Poulter, they lost. Tom’s been given an absolute arsenal of statistics to work his way through. Indeed, when justifying his decision to pick Hunter Mahan he even said so,

“If you look at the statistics as I have been for a long time, he led greens in regulation in three of the last four events he played.”

…. and yet he’s seemingly looked at a result with no greater depth to it than wikipedia on the morning that he has to decide, and said “you know what, Webb Simpson won two matches, two years ago”

I’ve got news for him. So did Luke Donald, and his overall cup record is superior to anyone currently active in the America sphere, but McGinlay decided that this wasn’t enough to save him. As regards Tom invoking the autumn solstice, this sounds like a curious mixture of paganism and witchcraft (which might work yet!) It all serves to confirm in my mind at least that Tom was indeed gearing up to pick Tiger Woods.

The text message could easily have offered congratulations without having to invoke the Ryder Cup and the clear inference that he's got at least one of his wildcards wrong and that he would no longer have them on the team

“Why didn’t you play this well before I picked my wildcards?”

Come on..... at best it's naive, tour pros are always going to whisper as are players agents

There's a lot that goes into the selection for the Ryder Cup, you're playing Monday morning QB.   Had Rory won or Furyk, Horschel wouldn't even be in the discussion.

In addition to playing good golf is team chemistry and experience.  We already had three Ryder Cup rookies on the team, plus a few with only one year of experience so experience had to factor into the decision.   Bradley had great chemistry with Phil last year and Webb is easy to pair up with just about anyone.

Horschel will likely be physically and mentally exhausted from playing five weeks in a row, winning the Championship, having to handle all his media obligations, the birth of his child and the sleepless nights of being a new dad.

I think Watson took all the factors into consideration and picked the best team he could.

[rehmwa]

Oh Jim Furyk.

Another loss.

I still wonder in what world sole second in the tour championship is a "loss"

poor guy - probably get less that $10M - that must suck

He's a fantastic golfer and had a really great season

There was a comedy short about how people have come view winning and losing.  It was referencing the Olympics and how some people will call the "LOSER" (you know, the guy that came in second by 0.0001 seconds, and the guy that came in third by 0.00008 seconds) and how they make them stand on a lower pedestal, and if they are very tall, they should make him squat down.  And, if we really want to be true to our attitudes, then we really need to be honest and take the silver and bronze medalists and make them lie naked in the mud while the gold medal winner stands on their faces during his national anthem.

I like to take the guy that comes in second to last and accuse them of being so bad, that they can't even lose better than the guy that came in last.

I feel bad for Ogilvy - at least in a tournament with a cut, you can stop the bleeding and try to reset back to your normal level of excellence.

Does anyone have the actual text of Watson's?  I think it's sad that a private text gets out.  Further, I hate that it had any mention of second guessing the Ryder team member content (even if it was just to give Billy a big compliment - I think Watson's a decent guy that way).  The team needs their caption to be showing absolute confidence in his selections so the members are absolutely confident they deserve to be there.  (However, with pro golfers, I doubt it's a problem, certainly they are think they deserve to be there - nature of the personality for sure).

[iacas]

There's a lot that goes into the selection for the Ryder Cup, you're playing Monday morning QB.

QFT.

[newtogolf]

I still wonder in what world sole second in the tour championship is a "loss"

poor guy - probably get less that $10M - that must suck

He's a fantastic golfer and had a really great season

There was a comedy short about how people have come view winning and losing.  It was referencing the Olympics and how some people will call the "LOSER" (you know, the guy that came in second by 0.0001 seconds, and the guy that came in third by 0.00008 seconds) and how they make them stand on a lower pedestal, and if they are very tall, they should make him squat down.  And, if we really want to be true to our attitudes, then we really need to be honest and take the silver and bronze medalists and make them lie naked in the mud while the gold medal winner stands on their faces during his national anthem.

I like to take the guy that comes in second to last and accuse them of being so bad, that they can't even lose better than the guy that came in last.

I feel bad for Ogilvy - at least in a tournament with a cut, you can stop the bleeding and try to reset back to your normal level of excellence.

Interesting perspective.  In some cases, 2nd place is viewed as the first loser, but that is also because in a tournament like this we're conditioned to only think about the winner.  All the discussion on air was about how much the winner will receive, I watched a good portion of the entire five weeks and don't think I heard what 2nd place prize money was once.

As for the Olympics, I think the Silver and Bronze winners are properly celebrated, they all are considered "medal" winners and from an Olympics perspective, that's what matters.

Conversely, I don't buy into the "everyone is a winner" mentality that demands all participants receive a participation trophy so they don't feel bad about not winning.