Par Golf, and the low single digit players you know

[Lihu]

Anyone ever play with a real low single digit player and not been impressed with their ball striking? I've played all different parts of the country and a couple courses in Asia. No shortage of good players, and they all have one common attribute, good ball striking. I asked a low single digit player how long he's been playing, today, and he answered 20 years starting at 8. He was scratch in high school, but is now a 4. If you watch any low handicap scratch to 2 level player or anyone who's gotten below 2, they pretty much strike the ball like a pro. It seems like these guys have near perfect timing in their swing. I was pondering this while playing a Champions tour course, and the narrow openings beckoned for accuracy and distance. Anyone see one that scrambles for par golf? I haven't.

[imsys0042]

Yes. Most of them either consistently hit a certain curved shot and cannot hit it the other way, or hit it short but straight. All of them have really good short games. I caddied for a guy who hit the ball solid but never hit anything other than a cut. a consistent cut. I mean exactly the same. Low fade. You could almost see him cut across the ball with his swing. But he was a very solid player, and a really tough competitor.

[Aflighter]

Doesn't matter how well he strikes the ball if he cant putt.Most low handicappers make the putts they need too.Rarely are they going to hit more than 14 greens but when they miss they can get up and down or just make bogey only to be canceled out by rolling in some birdies.Seldom do they find trouble but when they do put stress on the putter it comes thru.Month ago I shot even par by hitting around 12 greens with no birdies but my lag putting and chipping was spot on.18 pars.Im 9 handicap so shooting even par that way is once in a 1000.

[billchao]

I played with a guy once that I was completely unimpressed with. Big OTT move, hip sway, swung left, etc. Looked like your average golfer. Drove the ball 200 yards max. He ended up shooting 74 (3 over). Not sure what his handicap was, but it was low single digits. He really didn't miss much at all, but definitely not pro level striking. He just really owned his shot zones.

[Golfingdad]

If you watch any low handicap scratch to 2 level player or anyone who's gotten below 2, they pretty much strike the ball like a pro.

I don't think that is correct.  Or, for that matter, even remotely close to correct.

[MS256]

If you watch any low handicap scratch to 2 level player or anyone who's gotten below 2, they pretty much strike the ball like a pro.

If "like a pro" means like somebody on the PGA Tour then no. Pretty good but nowhere near that good.

All of the players I know that are in the neighborhood of scratch are good ball strikers though. I don't know any of them that I think could beat me in any kind of short game contest and yet they can beat me easily in a round of golf because of their ball striking (and my lack of it).

[vangator]

I'm a scrambler. Several years ago I got down to a 0 in our league but the course was only average difficulty. I played a fade, but I faded it every time. I missed my share of fairways, but rarely lost a ball. I'm always either on or near the green in regulation. I don't scare anybody with my putter, but I seldom 3 putt. But I am very good with a wedge in my hands. I make my playing partners sick by scraping the ball around and still shooting par. We have a guy in our league who is a very low capper. Usually give me a stroke. He has an ugly swing. I think it is one of those single plane swings. His arms and club make a straight line. He pushes one occasionally, but he'll wear you out most of the time right down the middle. We have a +3 in our league that is not a great driver. The rest of his game is pro quality, especially his putting. Just watched a Shell's Wonderful World of Golf with Chi Chi Rodriguez. He has a funky swing.

[iacas]

If you watch any low handicap scratch to 2 level player or anyone who's gotten below 2, they pretty much strike the ball like a pro.

@MS256 already responded for me. I've played to scratch for awhile now, and I'm nowhere near as good as a PGA Tour pro. Or a Web.com pro. Or a mini-tour pro.

Doesn't matter how well he strikes the ball if he cant putt.Most low handicappers make the putts they need too.Rarely are they going to hit more than 14 greens but when they miss they can get up and down or just make bogey only to be canceled out by rolling in some birdies.Seldom do they find trouble but when they do put stress on the putter it comes thru.Month ago I shot even par by hitting around 12 greens with no birdies but my lag putting and chipping was spot on.18 pars.Im 9 handicap so shooting even par that way is once in a 1000.

Not really true.

A guy who shoots 90 out-putts a PGA Tour player 10% of the time, so he's gonna putt better than a scratch golfer about 35% of the time (on his way to shooting 90).

Putting is not all that important.

The guy who hits 9 greens in a round and still shoots 73? He's getting NEAR 17 or 18 greens in regulation. We call that an nGIR, or a "near-GIR."

[Lihu]

I like all the responses, but one thing that stands out to me are the ball striking ones. Does saying that the scratch do not have nearly the same ability to strike the ball as well as a pro mean that the ball goes straighter? Or that they hit that much farther?

[billchao]

I like all the responses, but one thing that stands out to me are the ball striking ones. Does saying that the scratch do not have nearly the same ability to strike the ball as well as a pro mean that the ball goes straighter? Or that they hit that much farther?

I think it's the quality of the strike and the consistency. Pros don't miss very often, and when they do, it's typically not as bad of a miss as us amateurs. Do you go to a lot of PGA Tour events? I've only ever been at the Barclays once, but even from that one day, I can tell you I have never seen anyone strike the ball as well as a tour player while I was out golfing (I have seen @david_wedzik hit some shots during a clinic). Maybe @David in FL can chime in?

[Lihu]

I think it's the quality of the strike and the consistency. Pros don't miss very often, and when they do, it's typically not as bad of a miss as us amateurs. Do you go to a lot of PGA Tour events? I've only ever been at the Barclays once, but even from that one day, I can tell you I have never seen anyone strike the ball as well as a tour player while I was out golfing (I have seen @david_wedzik hit some shots during a clinic). Maybe @David in FL can chime in?

Yes, I've been to a couple. They are pretty impressive. I probably should have focused the topic on the part about scratch golfer shaving extremely good ball striking, which separates them from us.

[vangator]

@MS256 already responded for me. I've played to scratch for awhile now, and I'm nowhere near as good as a PGA Tour pro. Or a Web.com pro. Or a mini-tour pro. Not really true. A guy who shoots 90 out-putts a PGA Tour player 10% of the time, so he's gonna putt better than a scratch golfer about 35% of the time (on his way to shooting 90). Putting is not all that important. The guy who hits 9 greens in a round and still shoots 73? He's getting NEAR 17 or 18 greens in regulation. We call that an nGIR, or a "near-GIR."

I really agree with your last statement. NGIR is really important. It's important to keep the ball in play and evaluate risks of each sot. Nothing is worse than throwing away a couple of birdies with a stupid double bogey. There are two guys in our league who are terrible golfers. 36 cappers, but they have such sweet putters. When they putt, I just watch everything they do because they are so rock solid. They drain 10 footers all day long.

[Pretzel]

I think it's the quality of the strike and the consistency. Pros don't miss very often, and when they do, it's typically not as bad of a miss as us amateurs.

This is the main thing right here. When I miss-hit a golf ball, you can usually tell because it will fly differently (lower, higher, a bit right). When a pro mis-hits the ball, you can be left scratching your head as to why they're so upset about what seemed to be a fairly average shot.

[Jakester23]

When they putt, I just watch everything they do because they are so rock solid. They drain 10 footers all day long.

A 10 footer for 7 is a lot easier than a 10 footer for birdie. My buddy plays around a 4 and was down to a .8 a few years ago. The thing I noticed with him was even when he's not hitting it exactly how he wanted he wasn't in a lot of trouble. He is just solid. He might hit one drive ob but he will also have a birdie putt on almost every par 5.

[nick1998bunker]

I'm not quite a 2 but my ball striking is usually horrible. Im pretty good at course management so I usually only make bogeys or better in tournaments, but my shortgame sucks in tournaments. It's the other way around in practice.

[vangator]

A 10 footer for 7 is a lot easier than a 10 footer for birdie. My buddy plays around a 4 and was down to a .8 a few years ago. The thing I noticed with him was even when he's not hitting it exactly how he wanted he wasn't in a lot of trouble. He is just solid. He might hit one drive ob but he will also have a birdie putt on almost every par 5.

We play a couple of scrambles per year in our league. You must use one tee shot per nine from every player. This one guy is so bad, I don't think I've ever seen him hit it more than 100 yards. Usually just dribbles a drive off the tee. Irons are horrible, chips could end up anywhere. But when he putts, his speed is great and I've never seen anybody run in more 20+ putts. His putter looks like one of those miniature golf putters. He's usually half in the bag after a few holes. He brings a beer on the green when he putts. He's my idol. :-)

[flopster]

I like all the responses, but one thing that stands out to me are the ball striking ones. Does saying that the scratch do not have nearly the same ability to strike the ball as well as a pro mean that the ball goes straighter? Or that they hit that much farther?

I think I know where your going, it's the quality of ball striking that you feel a low digit capper is somewhat the same as a tour pro, yes players at this level will strike the ball just as well from time to time but more often they are playing misses than the guys on TV.  Touring pros are playing a way more precise game than any scratch or even +2 player does, they have their distances dialed in within a yard so when that caddie gives them a number he better be damn near dead on it's just a way more precise game than we can imagine at much longer distances to boot. I occasionally play with a guy who is a +3.9 right now and I see him work the distances and stick some irons real close and also I almost never see a wild shot in fact I think I have only seen him miss a green 2 times in a round, he just tied our course record 63 at 73.4 and 139 slope.

[Parker0065]

I think a lot of it comes down to what people think is good ball striking and how good or bad a players "misses" are.

For an average golfer a miss can mean off the green from 10-20 yards. For a low to mid single digit handicap a miss might be 3-5 yards off the green. As a scratch player my misses are usually a couple feet off the green or on the fringe or edge of the green(40-50 ft birdie putt). For a Tour player their misses mean they have a 30 footer for birdie or they short sided themselves going after a tough pin which they're still going to get up and down a high percentage of the time.

At least for me this also effects how I attack a pin. My goal on every tee box is to play the hole to give myself the best chance to make birdie but I'm not as aggressive at some pins as a tour player because I prefer not to short side myself knowing my short game is no where near the level of a tour players.

Funny thing I played with a stranger not long ago who was about a 15 handicap and I was just off that day. I was 2 over on the day playing the 15th hole and hit another mediocre shot up on the green about 30 feet. I'm not very vocal on the course but I guess after about every shot that day I was giving myself a very low grunt of disapproval. After I hit the shot the guy says to me I've noticed all day you haven't hardly missed a shot yet you haven't been happy with any of them. In his eyes I was having a great ball striking day hitting most of the greens but I knew I was hitting the ball like dog do do.

The other thing is scratch and low digit players games come in all different shapes and sizes. There are a good number of them that play their short home course over and over with their one shot shape and in their comfortable surroundings. Take them somewhere else on a longer track and many of them are going to shoot in the 78-80 range. Scratch and low digit players that have games that travel well will likely have a more diverse shot selection and ability to work the ball.