Tour slow play and laser range finders

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

why on earth would someone use a yardage book instead of just shooting the pin and getting their exact distance?

Shooting the flag tells only gives you one random number in space.  But you also need to know WHERE in space that pin is.  If golf was like basketball or football with specific requirements about field size and shape, then sure, all they'd need is that one number - if the green was always a 20 yard diameter circle with the pin always dead center.  But that is never the case.

The number to the pin is only one of several necessary.  Next thing they need to know is where they are going to land the ball.  Is there a backstop behind the pin that I can spin it off of?  Is there a sideslope that's going to send it left or right?  If so, how many paces between the pin and those features?  Are they greens that are hard to hold?  If so, how much room do I have from the front of the green to the pin.  Where can I land it?  Do I even want to aim at the pin?  How far from the edge of the green is it?  How far from that edge to the lip of that bunker?

Rest assured that it doesn't take those guys that long to get their exact distance.  But they want more than that.

But don't they know the pin placement before the round?  Can't those factors be related to the actual distance to the pin?

I agree that is only one factor in the enormous time these guys take to plan a shot.  But I do think it would eliminate those instances where we see the caddy goose-stepping around from sprinkler heads or the green.

[Golfingdad]

But don't they know the pin placement before the round?  Can't those factors be related to the actual distance to the pin?

@mvmac can clarify this, but I'm pretty sure they get a pin sheet on the first tee.  It just has 18 circles on it that all look like clocks with one hand pointing to 6 or 12 and the other pointing to 3 or 9, and a number (yards or paces) along each line.  They don't "know" the placement before the round, but are given the placements at the start.  They still have to break out the books and do a quick bit of math for each approach shot.

[ghalfaire]

While I don't have a problem with permitting laser range finders on the tour I some how doubt it would speed play by an appreciable amount.  As some others have said the distance to the flag is only one consideration of many go into club and shot selection.

[MrDC]

I think I'm against it, they know the yards already, so this is not a reason for slow play, and watching a golfer use a finder looks amateur, and too much tech for a player, for these reasons I think this will never happen.

[dbuck]

I don't really care what they do, but I don't think it would speed up play.

I think it would actually slow play. As several others have said, they already have 99.9% of the yardages. Using a rangefinder would just add another step in the confirmation process. If one started to do it, soon they all would, and it would actually add a few seconds to each shot by every competitor. This is the livelihood for these guys, and they are playing for millions of dollars. The problem is that when the pros do it, every Joe hacker thinks he has to as well.

On the amateur level, I think it generally slows play. How many times have you seen someone get 143 to the pin, then lay a beaver pelt over the ball? The golfer could have done that without the exact yardage. I am basically a bogey golfer, but I do hit fairly consistently through the bag. I don't need to know if it is 139 or 148 to the green/pin, I am usually hitting a 7. Sometimes I might need to know if it is 150 or 151, because 150 would be the max for the 7 iron. I don't own a rangefinder, but I have played with buddies that do, and I have gotten an occasional benefit from it. If I had one, I would try to limit my use to 4-5 shots per round. I don't need it on tee shots for par 4's and 5's. I don't need it for most second shots either. By need it, I mean the difference of a couple or three yards is usually outside my ability to control.  I would find it beneficial when I play an unfamiliar course for the first time.

[dbuck]

And re: my last post in this thread, I know there are better golfers on here that use them to good results, and that is fine. IMHO, if your handicap is above 12-14, you are slowing play MOST of the time with a rangefinder, the exceptions being unfamiliar courses and 3-4 shots per round on your home course.

Now some would say that with my handicap, I shouldn't be playing blades, but I have REASONS for that. Oh, wait, wrong thread. By the way, shouldn't we start a thread on that? Blades vs Cavities?

[Golfingdad]

And re: my last post in this thread, I know there are better golfers on here that use them to good results, and that is fine. IMHO, if your handicap is above 12-14, you are slowing play MOST of the time with a rangefinder, the exceptions being unfamiliar courses and 3-4 shots per round on your home course.

Now some would say that with my handicap, I shouldn't be playing blades, but I have REASONS for that. Oh, wait, wrong thread. By the way, shouldn't we start a thread on that? Blades vs Cavities?

The amateur who uses a rangefinder isn't slowing play, because if he didn't have the rangefinder he's not going to, all of a sudden, stop caring about his distance, but rather, is now going to have to start searching out a sprinkler head and pacing it off.  No way, wandering around and looking for a marker is faster than shooting the flag from your ball.

Besides, this stuff all falls into the category of "stuff self-aware golfers can do BEFORE it's actually their turn" so none of it is necessarily going to slow anybody down if done right.

[Pretzel]

I think it would actually slow play. As several others have said, they already have 99.9% of the yardages. Using a rangefinder would just add another step in the confirmation process. If one started to do it, soon they all would, and it would actually add a few seconds to each shot by every competitor.

It would speed up their play because they aren't having to walk back and forth to pace yardages from set points that they have noted. They're not going to keep pacing stuff off when they have a laser because their initial yardage book distances are generated using laser rangefinders in the first place! If they trust them enough to use them as reference points for all their other distances, I'm pretty sure they would trust them enough to just use them without double checking by pacing it off.

Pointing a laser and pushing a button is faster than pacing off a distance.

[MrDC]

How big of an issue is slow play on tour? I don't see a problem from my end, plenty of golf being shown, no waiting on TV, so what's the problem?

[dbuck]

The only way you will get a few of them to go faster is to use a TASER instead of a Laser.

But it is their job, and they are playing for a lot of money, so I don't really begrudge them a few seconds here and there. The problem is, the guys behind them are also working/playing for the same money. And the hackers like me want to emulate them on Saturday morning.

[ghalfaire]

I don't know that I think it would speed things up.  But I don't see any reason to not permit range finders.

[imsys0042]

I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. For some it might speed up play, for others it will slow them down. Just like what they probably do now. My only concern is much like golfingdad had to say, it's not just the distance to the pin. Some people would be shooting a number of different things like find the exact carry distance to clear something or how far to a ridge in the green and that might slow things down for some people. But overall people that are too deliberate and slow will be slow with whatever tools are given to them. I personally don't use one. I watch the gps on my course as I'm driving up and calculate what the actual distance is. But that is nothing compared to carry distance, distance to clear a bunker or elevation changes. I try to work it out as I am coming up to my ball. In fact I generally get the distance right within 2-3 yards of what people who shoot distances for me, and the. I say something like "but it's effectively playing this distance". I also happen to have most of the green lengths and widths memorized so I can add/subtract distances and ridges/tiers in the green. So if I'm not BSing, I generally know my distance and effective distance from a lot of places.