Bad Manners or Just Rude?

[rkim291968]

Nice thread.  I'm in a different situation, one of my employees is a good guy and we try to play on occasion.  Anyway, he has this friend/golf buddy.  Not a bad guy, but he's just 'tense', I guess.  It always starts the moment we hit the first tee too.

So my employee and I have played a few times.  A couple bloody mary's, and lots of gimmes and we have fun - that's our thing.  We'll even just pick up at 10 feet or so on the putting green just to keep it light.  But I'm respecting his friend and don't dare to give him anything.  Hell, a couple times I took our gimme's off the green right away so he'd have a clean green to do his 'thing' on - (his routine is tortuous, but no biggie, different strokes for different strokes).  Even after trying to be nice here, he still scowls and mumbles at us.  One time he was taking so darn long on a 20 footer, I just went ahead and putted to get my ball out of the way - again trying to give him a clear green.  That was even worse.  But I get the impression he likes to putt out, so I leave it alone.  Gotta respect the other guy and how he finds his fun.

You'd think that after the round we could get him to loosen up.  One time I tried to break the ice and cracked a little tease at him since he's a much better player than me, figuring he'd jump in a be one of the guys.  But hell, I haven't seen him since.

Too bad, he could play decent and most of the time wasn't all that bad.  just a bit tight.

any thoughts?

You are the boss the OP is referring to?

[Lihu]

Nice thread.  I'm in a different situation, one of my employees is a good guy and we try to play on occasion.  Anyway, he has this friend/golf buddy.  Not a bad guy, but he's just 'tense', I guess.  It always starts the moment we hit the first tee too. So my employee and I have played a few times.  A couple bloody mary's, and lots of gimmes and we have fun - that's our thing.  We'll even just pick up at 10 feet or so on the putting green just to keep it light.  But I'm respecting his friend and don't dare to give him anything.  Hell, a couple times I took our gimme's off the green right away so he'd have a clean green to do his 'thing' on - (his routine is tortuous, but no biggie, different strokes for different strokes).  Even after trying to be nice here, he still scowls and mumbles at us.  One time he was taking so darn long on a 20 footer, I just went ahead and putted to get my ball out of the way - again trying to give him a clear green.  That was even worse.  But I get the impression he likes to putt out, so I leave it alone.  Gotta respect the other guy and how he finds his fun. You'd think that after the round we could get him to loosen up.  One time I tried to break the ice and cracked a little tease at him since he's a much better player than me, figuring he'd jump in a be one of the guys.  But hell, I haven't seen him since. Too bad, he could play decent and most of the time wasn't all that bad.  just a bit tight. any thoughts?

More Bloody Mary's are in order for the next time around. ;-)

[ay33660]

Nice thread.  I'm in a different situation, one of my employees is a good guy and we try to play on occasion.  Anyway, he has this friend/golf buddy.  Not a bad guy, but he's just 'tense', I guess.  It always starts the moment we hit the first tee too.

So my employee and I have played a few times.  A couple bloody mary's, and lots of gimmes and we have fun - that's our thing.  We'll even just pick up at 10 feet or so on the putting green just to keep it light.  But I'm respecting his friend and don't dare to give him anything.  Hell, a couple times I took our gimme's off the green right away so he'd have a clean green to do his 'thing' on - (his routine is tortuous, but no biggie, different strokes for different strokes).  Even after trying to be nice here, he still scowls and mumbles at us.  One time he was taking so darn long on a 20 footer, I just went ahead and putted to get my ball out of the way - again trying to give him a clear green.  That was even worse.  But I get the impression he likes to putt out, so I leave it alone.  Gotta respect the other guy and how he finds his fun.

You'd think that after the round we could get him to loosen up.  One time I tried to break the ice and cracked a little tease at him since he's a much better player than me, figuring he'd jump in a be one of the guys.  But hell, I haven't seen him since.

Too bad, he could play decent and most of the time wasn't all that bad.  just a bit tight.

any thoughts?

Brilliant reply.

As always two sides to every story.

Maybe the joking about teeing up in front of the blocks was a little over the top.

But given the petty nature of the two on course transgressions that the OP was posting about ....... this side seems more likely.

Speaking of Bloody Mary's up here in the great white north we have Caesars. Essentially the same thing but with clamato juice instead of tomato juice. Really miss those when I am golfing down south. Also what is with the non sweetened ice tea ........... sorry off topic.

[Abu3baid]

The Rules of Golf?

What is the ruling if I play out of order in stroke play? Ok ok, forget that one. So, there is a guy I'm playing with and he seems to always play out of order, I have two choices.. The first I can do what the guy just mentioned which is say "hey *** hole, I'm further out" (im paraphrasing) or I just let him go first and watch his putt without confronting him. Hence my question of what is stopping him, myself from just letting it go? FWIW we always play ready golf, even on the putting green. P.s I read your response that you were concentrating on the part of gaining an advantage, however it is not like they agreed to do so for that purpose right? The other guy is just putting because he wants to, I think proving that I'm letting him putt to gain an advantage is impossible don't you agree? (Me or anyone else, I'm talking in general terms here)

[mcanadiens]

Just personally, I don't mind the closer people getting their balls out of the way. Ready golf for sure, but if others get to it first, I'll be happy to watch em and get my line sorted.

[Abu3baid]

Just personally, I don't mind the closer people getting their balls out of the way. Ready golf for sure, but if others get to it first, I'll be happy to watch em and get my line sorted.

This is the part that Rich mentioned the rules of golf. If someone is playing ready golf and you are taking advantage and learning your line is there any penalty associated with it? I don't know the answer.

[turtleback]

What is the ruling if I play out of order in stroke play? Ok ok, forget that one. So, there is a guy I'm playing with and he seems to always play out of order, I have two choices.. The first I can do what the guy just mentioned which is say "hey *** hole, I'm further out" (im paraphrasing) or I just let him go first and watch his putt without confronting him. Hence my question of what is stopping him, myself from just letting it go?

FWIW we always play ready golf, even on the putting green.

If the playing out of order is being done so a player will have an advantage, which is the specific issue I was addressing, it is against the rules and could lead to a DQ.  The poster I was replying to asked why not just let him keep playing out of order so you can keep getting reads on his putts.

If the play out of order just happens because it happens and no one is seeking an advantage that is one thing.  But if player A ignores player B's violations because it gives Player A an advantage there is a problem, IMO.  I think that is true even if player B is oblivious to what is going on.

And even if it is not a technical violation it is certainly contrary to the spirit of the game to allow your opponent to break the rules so you can get an advantage,

Edited to add:  You do pose a good question though, as to just what specific justification or analysis the committee would use to act in a situation like this.  I have started a thread  the Rules forum to get some opinions on that part of it.

[mcanadiens]

If the playing out of order is being done so a player will have an advantage, which is the specific issue I was addressing, it is against the rules and could lead to a DQ.  The poster I was replying to asked why not just let him keep playing out of order so you can keep getting reads on his putts.

If the play out of order just happens because it happens and no one is seeking an advantage that is one thing.  But if player A ignores player B's violations because it gives Player A an advantage there is a problem, IMO.  I think that is true even if player B is oblivious to what is going on.

That makes sense. In practice, it probably would be awkward to enforce in casual play. "Hey bud, stop letting me get a free read on my putt." He answers: "I don't care, you'll miss it anyway."

[tqcishark]

Nice thread.  I'm in a different situation, one of my employees is a good guy and we try to play on occasion.  Anyway, he has this friend/golf buddy.  Not a bad guy, but he's just 'tense', I guess.  It always starts the moment we hit the first tee too.

So my employee and I have played a few times.  A couple bloody mary's, and lots of gimmes and we have fun - that's our thing.  We'll even just pick up at 10 feet or so on the putting green just to keep it light.  But I'm respecting his friend and don't dare to give him anything.  Hell, a couple times I took our gimme's off the green right away so he'd have a clean green to do his 'thing' on - (his routine is tortuous, but no biggie, different strokes for different strokes).  Even after trying to be nice here, he still scowls and mumbles at us.  One time he was taking so darn long on a 20 footer, I just went ahead and putted to get my ball out of the way - again trying to give him a clear green.  That was even worse.  But I get the impression he likes to putt out, so I leave it alone.  Gotta respect the other guy and how he finds his fun.

You'd think that after the round we could get him to loosen up.  One time I tried to break the ice and cracked a little tease at him since he's a much better player than me, figuring he'd jump in a be one of the guys.  But hell, I haven't seen him since.

Too bad, he could play decent and most of the time wasn't all that bad.  just a bit tight.

any thoughts?

I have a thought.  I think this thread just got interesting.

I'm curious how you manage an 8 handicap giving and taking 10 foot gimmes.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangator

I would tell my friend that as long as the boss plays, I wouldn't be playing, unless he was picking up the tab. Life's too short.

I only scrape gimmes away if the course is backed up AND the putt is shorter than 2 feet. If the course isn't backed up, the putt has to be within 12-15 inches. If someone in the group calls my putt good, I pick up.

If I play a stranger and he has a gimme, I say "that's good in my book". If he putts it anyway, I don't say it again. Don't want him to get pissed off.

If the guy putts out of turn once, I let him and try to get a read from his putt. If he does it again, I say, "Hey a--hole, I'm away".

I'm just curious why wouldn't you just keep trying to read his putt.. If that's a perceived advantage by you, shouldn't you keep exploiting it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abu3baid

I'm just curious why wouldn't you just keep trying to read his putt.. If that's a perceived advantage by you, shouldn't you keep exploiting it?

The Rules of Golf?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

So you are saying he should be a stickler for the rules for order of play, but 2 foot gimmes are okay?

You know what?  You really don't care what I was saying, you're just trying to make debating points, because there is no way you can get that from what I actually said.  Re-phrasing what someone says in order to make it say something else, and then attacking it, is a crappy way to argue or discuss.

And if you'd slow down enough to read what was actually being talked about, it was letting your fellow competitor putt out of turn in order to gain an advantage, not 2 foot gimmes.  And I am puzzled why you would think I would say 2 foot gimmes are OK, since I have never said anything like that.

I am saying that he should be a stickler for the rules for order of play when failing to follow them confers an advantage on one of the players.    And 2 foot gimmes are never OK except in match play.

All I did was continue the FULL train of thought that was being discussed which involved several breaches of which order of play was the least objectionable.  If you follow that it appears that you were only concerned when when order of play was involved.  Maybe I chose a poor way to do it, but I was just pointing out that there was more to the conversation than just the order of play issue.  I tender my apology if it seemed that I was directing that at you.

[AmazingWhacker]

I guess to each his own but I'd rather play with the friend and his boss than the OP, any day.  People who take their crappy golf game too seriously and get all bent out of shape over the smallest things should find like-minded golfers to play with and leave the normal people alone, lol.

[ay33660]

One final point. Why didn't the OP's friend pick up and give the OP his putts? He stated that he golfs with his best friend at least twice or three times a week. His friend would certainly know if the OP is one that wishes to putt out or not.

"My best friend and I play together at least two and sometimes three times a week.  Lately he has asked his boss to join us, which I don't mind he's a very good golfer.  However he has done some things that has really gotten my goat.  We had a string of great weather here in Kansas a couple weeks ago so we were able to play four days straight.  On the first day during play I hit into the green on three different holes each shot was well within the four foot range, my friend and his boss were notably well outside my ball.  I approached the green on the first hole and stood reading my putt waiting for them to make their stroke since they were both away. The boss walked up looked at the lay of all three balls then used his putter to pick up his ball and my friends ball and called it good.  They then stood by and watched while I made my putt.  I said nothing but was pissed, it happened two more times that round and each of those times I was well within their ball and each time I watched as the boss picked up his and my friends then stood and watched as I putted out."

It seems to me that the boss is absolutely in the right not to pick up the OP's ball. The boss doesn't know him very well. I would have acted exactly like the boss if I was in the same position.

Why wasn't the OP equally pissed off with his best friend. Afterall his friend could have conceded the putts for the OP.

Also it was both the boss and his friend that putted out of turn as stated by the OP. Why wasn't he equally pissed with his friend?

"The next day we played the same course again and I made a great approach shot to the green on a par 5,  I was 20 feet out from the hole for my birdie putt they were inside my ball with putts of 10 feet and 6 feet.  I lined up my putt from behind the ball and began my pre-shot routine.  I did not take an extraordinary time in doing so, I took my stance and looked at the hole then down at my ball, looking back to the hole one last time as is my routine I see the boss over his ball pulling the putter back and making his putt.  I backed off my putt and waited until both the boss and my friend putted.  I then made my putt for birdie and walked off the green. My round wasn't worth a dam after that hole.  I shot a 90."

Putting out of turn is all that it took to ruin the OP's day and make his round not worth a dam? Also the OP has a 18 index wouldn't shooting a 90 be a very good day?

Unless there is more to this that the OP hasn't posted, he is completely in the wrong IMHO.

[ay33660]

I guess to each his own but I'd rather play with the friend and his boss than the OP, any day.  People who take their crappy golf game too seriously and get all bent out of shape over the smallest things should find like-minded golfers to play with and leave the normal people alone, lol.

+1

[vangator]

I'm just curious why wouldn't you just keep trying to read his putt.. If that's a perceived advantage by you, shouldn't you keep exploiting it?

I would assume the first time the guy just didn't realize he was not away and let it go. If it happens repeatedly, it's like a guy trying to cut in line. All they think about is themselves. Kind of the definition of an a--hole. [quote name="Fourputt" url="/t/78885/bad-manners-or-just-rude/36#post_1090328"] You do realize that there is no requirement for him to mark and his lift his ball?  If he chooses to do so he may putt, rather than lift his ball, even if you have asked him to lift it.  See Rule 22-2. So you are saying he should be a stickler for the rules for order of play, but 2 foot gimmes are okay? :blink:   [/quote] I don't think Rule 22-2 applies since I don't believe it was an interference issue. Plus, I don't think we know it was stroke play. I believe Rule 10 applies. As for 2 footers, it's only when gimmies are being taken and the course is backed up. If I'm playing a competition, we state before hand our rules on gimmies. I believe almost all of my competitions are match play (some with a medal component). In fact, my league team name is "Putt It Out". I never have a problem hearing the ball drop in the cup on every hole. It's called golf.

[golfbarefoot]

Its very simple. PLAY THE BALL DOWN. They are playing on your timidness.  Its called gamesmanship.  Its also very easy to solve. You simply state before the round.  "Lets play the rules of golf, lets play it down... "   (that means no gimmees, no mulligans, no fluff the ball for a better lie, no free drops when you hit it OB, no foot wedges, no nothing. Everything according to the rules) Its the only way to play.... especially with tools like that. Win or lose, at least you know youre truly playing golf.... and in the end you will grow into a better player also.

[ay33660]

Its very simple.  PLAY THE BALL DOWN.

They are playing on your timidness.  Its called gamesmanship.  Its also very easy to solve.

You simply state before the round.  "Lets play the rules of golf, lets play it down..."   (that means no gimmees, no mulligans, no fluff the ball for a better lie, no free drops when you hit it OB, no foot wedges, no nothing. Everything according to the rules)

Its the only way to play....especially with tools like that. Win or lose, at least you know youre truly playing golf.... and in the end you will grow into a better player also.

I disagree that the ONLY way to play golf is as you say it "play the ball down".

I know how to play by the rules and when I am playing with my regular group we will play by the rules because there is always a match going on. BUT when I am playing with someone that doesn't play on a regular basis or is not following the rules I DO NOT insist that they "play the ball down".

As long as we are not playing a match what they do has absolutely no impact on me. If they want to pickup after a few bad shots or take a 20' gimme why should it affect my game.

Then there are the times that I am playing with a client that doesn't golf regularly they will be entitled to gimmes, mulligans, a friendly drop ...  anything goes. If I find that we are falling behind I will putt without lining up my putts or even pickup without holing out (of course I don;t post that round for my handicap). It is about connecting with the client and socializing, golf is secondary.

[golfbarefoot]

I disagree that the ONLY way to play golf is as you say it "play the ball down". I know how to play by the rules and when I am playing with my regular group we will play by the rules because there is always a match going on. BUT when I am playing with someone that doesn't play on a regular basis or is not following the rules I DO NOT insist that they "play the ball down". As long as we are not playing a match what they do has absolutely no impact on me. If they want to pickup after a few bad shots or take a 20' gimme why should it affect my game. Then there are the times that I am playing with a client that doesn't golf regularly they will be entitled to gimmes, mulligans, a friendly drop ...  anything goes. If I find that we are falling behind I will putt without lining up my putts or even pickup without holing out (of course I don;t post that round for my handicap). It is about connecting with the client and socializing, golf is secondary.

Are you retarded? In the context of THIS thread and the OP dilemma ... Play it down dumbass...that eliminates the poor guys problem with the gamesmanship the boss is playing. Who the hell is talking about your clients etc.?? If youre not playing by the rules of golf, especially in this guys situation... everyone is playing a different game... Read the opening thread first..you're embarrassing yourself.

[Abu3baid]

Are you retarded? In the context of THIS thread and the OP dilemma ... Play it down dumbass...that eliminates the poor guys problem. Who the hell is talking about your clients etc.?? If youre not playing by the rules of golf, especially in this guys situation... everyone is playing a different game... Read the opening thread first..you're embarrassing yourself.

We are all grown ups here, I strongly recommend you refrain from insulting other users in your posts. Thanks