New Pros Don't Know the Rules

[joekelly]

Interesting read from Barry Rhodes 'golf rules blog' regarding lack of rules knowledge by new pros.

Refer to Rhodes here   :  http://www.barryrhodes.com/2010/03/tour-players-to-go-back-to-school-over.html

"And there’s more. Further down the page, Paramor cites another example of the sort of things he and his overworked team have to deal with. During last year’s BMW PGA Championship at Wentworth, an unnamed individual pushed his approach to the 15th green way right of the putting surface. Only after walking forward did he ascertain that the ball was out of bounds.

Having done so, Player X trudged all the way back to where he hit his original shot. He then hit his next ball right of the green into a similar area. Here’s where it gets really bad though. Without either hitting a provisional ball, or walking forward as he had done previously, X simply stood and waited for news. That’s waited. And waited. And waited. What a dope. Eventually, he was penalised two shots for “undue delay of play”. All because he clearly had no idea what he was doing.

So what’s going on here?

“The current generation of young players is the first who don’t seem to have learned the game on the golf course,” points out Ogilvy, who is 37 (Geoff Ogilvy, Australian Pro golfer) . “These days, they seem to learn golf on the range, with the Trackman machines and their coaches beside them. But that’s not golf, of course, it’s just hitting."

[bkuehn1952]

As many of us already know, there are a great many golfers, professional and amateur, who are completely clueless about even the basic Rules.  One can sort of understand the professionjal viewpoint; why learn the Rules when one can just call over a Rules official?  What always astounds me is amateurs who enter tournaments without any idea how to handle water hazards, O.B., etc...  They probably assume they can call over a Rules official just like the big boys.

[Fourputt]

As many of us already know, there are a great many golfers, professional and amateur, who are completely clueless about even the basic Rules.  One can sort of understand the professionjal viewpoint; why learn the Rules when one can just call over a Rules official?  What always astounds me is amateurs who enter tournaments without any idea how to handle water hazards, O.B., etc...  They probably assume they can call over a Rules official just like the big boys.

You mean that you don't find it rather sad that so many Tour pros don't know, or even seen to care about knowing the rules that define their profession?  I think it's ridiculous.  Pure laziness.  It's an attitude that I find unfathomable in a so-called professional.

Bottom line is, it's unprofessional.

[David in FL]

I just don't believe it's that rampant.  The vast majority of tour players grew up playing a lot of high level tournament golf.  Most from a pretty young age.  They know the rules.  They may not all be experts on every intricacy and decision, but they know the rules, and an outlier or two is just that, the exception rather than the rule.

[Patch]

I think more pros know the rules than they let on. They have to, since they have been playing for so long in sanctioned events. I know when I was in college, I had a friend who played on the golf team. I remember he had to take a rules quiz every so often during his practice times. I used to kid him about it. I played baseball, and we only had 4 rules needed to play my game.

I think some times, some pros will skirt them if they can gain an advantage. It just the nature of the beast because of all the money involved. I think they get caught breaking a rule, more often, than not knowing the rules.

I once saw a rules infraction while walking around at one of the old LVI (old name) tournaments. He was a no name player, and I, and his caddy  were the only one around him. I just happen to be standing by the golfer's caddy, and made reference to him about it.  I was told, in no uncertain terms, that it was no big deal, that all the pros do it. He was right. It  was no big deal to me, since that golfer was well on his to missing the cut. .

[Golfingdad]

I find it odd that some golfer makes a bonehead mistake and Geoff Ogilvy takes a pot shot at Trackman.  Pretty odd leap there. Are we sure that wasn't Brandel who said that?

[Fourputt]

I think more pros know the rules than they let on. They have to, since they have been playing for so long in sanctioned events. I know when I was in college, I had a friend who played on the golf team. I remember he had to take a rules quiz every so often during his practice times. I used to kid him about it. I played baseball, and we only had 4 rules needed to play my game.

I think some times, some pros will skirt them if they can gain an advantage. It just the nature of the beast because of all the money involved. I think they get caught breaking a rule, more often, than not knowing the rules.

I once saw a rules infraction while walking around at one of the old LVI (old name) tournaments. He was a no name player, and I, and his caddy  were the only one around him. I just happen to be standing by the golfer's caddy, and made reference to him about it.  I was told, in no uncertain terms, that it was no big deal, that all the pros do it. He was right. It  was no big deal to me, since that golfer was well on his to missing the cut. .

Four rules for baseball????  Not hardly.  Look at this: Rules of Baseball

[Golfingdad]

I think more pros know the rules than they let on. They have to, since they have been playing for so long in sanctioned events. I know when I was in college, I had a friend who played on the golf team. I remember he had to take a rules quiz every so often during his practice times. I used to kid him about it. I played baseball, and we only had 4 rules needed to play my game.

Apples and oranges.  You're comparing sanctioned golf events to kids goofing around.

As a kid, golf would only have 1 rule:  Hit the ball til you get it in the hole.

And David already addressed how many rules baseball has in "sanctioned events."

[turtleback]

As many of us already know, there are a great many golfers, professional and amateur, who are completely clueless about even the basic Rules.  One can sort of understand the professionjal viewpoint; why learn the Rules when one can just call over a Rules official?  What always astounds me is amateurs who enter tournaments without any idea how to handle water hazards, O.B., etc...  They probably assume they can call over a Rules official just like the big boys.

That makes no sense to me because they didn't start out as full blown touring pros with rules officials.

Maybe I am just stupid, but if my livelihood was based on an activity that had rules, and a violation of those rules can cost me thousands of dollars, I'm going to be damned sure that I have done everything I can to avoid making that thousands of dollar mistake.  I do not have the slightest sympathy for a guy like Dustin Johnson who blows a major because he cannot be bothered to real the local rules sheet.

It is their livelihood - they should be professional about it, IMO.

[ev780]

The problem with tour pros is the TV coverage.  Why risk a violation that some rules geek on the sofa calls in and gets you DQ'd.  Just call the official.

As a side note, how do these guys even know who to call?  Just incredible to me.

[treebound]

In the back of my mind I'm thinking of a public course amateur playing on a busy course where stroke-and-distance is usually frowned upon due to speed of play and slow play. Stroke-and-distance is usually replaced by taking a drop and adding penalty strokes as appropriate.  A provisional ball can be done if the player has a reasonable assumption that the ball with swimming or ended up out of bounds, but if the public course amateur thinks their ball is okay until they find out otherwise then take a drop.

Not directly related to the OP incident, but just another way to look at it.

And I'm wondering if he was just standing there thinking that he can't believe he just mis-hit another shot.

[Patch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patch

I think more pros know the rules than they let on. They have to, since they have been playing for so long in sanctioned events. I know when I was in college, I had a friend who played on the golf team. I remember he had to take a rules quiz every so often during his practice times. I used to kid him about it. I played baseball, and we only had 4 rules needed to play my game.

I think some times, some pros will skirt them if they can gain an advantage. It just the nature of the beast because of all the money involved. I think they get caught breaking a rule, more often, than not knowing the rules.

I once saw a rules infraction while walking around at one of the old LVI (old name) tournaments. He was a no name player, and I, and his caddy  were the only one around him. I just happen to be standing by the golfer's caddy, and made reference to him about it.  I was told, in no uncertain terms, that it was no big deal, that all the pros do it. He was right. It  was no big deal to me, since that golfer was well on his to missing the cut. .

Four rules for baseball????  Not hardly.  Look at this:  Rules of Baseball

My mistake. I should have elaborated more.  It was joke between my friend, and I. He had this inch thick book he needed to understand. Our  4 main rules, per our coach,  were hit, catch, and throw the ball. The 4th was run like hell on between those. Yes I am aware there are officially more than 4 rules in baseball.

[Rulesman]

There are only 3 fewer rules in Tennis than Golf

[InTheRough]

the pros know the rules--except for the random one with their head in the clouds which appears in every sport.  They just want to be 100% sure of the rules when something happens so that they get it right because getting it wrong and having to take penalty strokes could cost them a tournament and/or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Also then they would have a bunch of golfers on golf forums calling them cheaters and saying that they should withdraw form tournaments

[turtleback]

In the back of my mind I'm thinking of a public course amateur playing on a busy course where stroke-and-distance is usually frowned upon due to speed of play and slow play. Stroke-and-distance is usually replaced by taking a drop and adding penalty strokes as appropriate.  A provisional ball can be done if the player has a reasonable assumption that the ball with swimming or ended up out of bounds, but if the public course amateur thinks their ball is okay until they find out otherwise then take a drop.

Not directly related to the OP incident, but just another way to look at it.

And I'm wondering if he was just standing there thinking that he can't believe he just mis-hit another shot.

The bolded portion is incorrect.  You cannot hit a provisional on the basis that you think your ball might be lost in a water hazard (unless a pretty unusual local rule is in effect).

27-2a/2

Provisional Ball Played Solely in Belief Original Ball Might Be in Water Hazard

Q.A player's tee shot might be in a water hazard, but clearly it is not lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds. The player announces that, since his ball might be in the hazard, he is going to play a provisional ball and he does so. Rule 27-2a seems to prohibit a provisional ball in the circumstances. What is the ruling?

A.The player did not play a provisional ball which, according to the Definition of "Provisional Ball," is a ball played under Rule 27-2 for a ball which may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds. The second ball from the tee was in play since it was not a provisional ball.

[David in FL]

There are only 3 fewer rules in Tennis than Golf

And tennis is played on a court of identical dimensions for every match......

[treebound]

The bolded portion is incorrect.  You cannot hit a provisional on the basis that you think your ball might be lost in a water hazard (unless a pretty unusual local rule is in effect).

D'oh (give myself a Homer Simpson forehead slap), I knew that, I think I was thinking something else. Thanks for the refresher.

[turtleback]

D'oh (give myself a Homer Simpson forehead slap), I knew that, I think I was thinking something else. Thanks for the refresher.

I think you meant to say lost or OB - it read like a slip of the finger rather than a conscious thing.