The Tiger Woods/PED Thread

[misty_mountainhop]

Despite my (irrational?) dislike of the persona that is Woods, there's no evidence that he's used PEDs.......is there?? OK, he bulked quite a bit at one point but nothing that wouldn't tally with simple gym use.

Just out of interest, why did the OP pose this question? Is there something out there on this topic other than the long-standing and completely unsubstantiated suggestions??

[hillis11]

First let me start by saying Tiger is good for golf and I think we need Tiger being tiger again.  I do think he took something along the lines of PEDs not for strength or trying to bulk up but more in terms for endurance and recovery. I have no proof and we will never find out the truth but that is my 2 cents.

[motsco]

much as my opinion won't be liked but I vote yes, both he and Phil I think did them, you just look at the size of their muscles before the Ped investigations started vs after, they both deflated and their games dropped a notch, I'm sure their are other golfers who used them also. but thos 2 stand out the most.

[Lihu]

much as my opinion won't be liked but I vote yes, both he and Phil I think did them, you just look at the size of their muscles before the Ped investigations started vs after, they both deflated and their games dropped a notch, I'm sure their are other golfers who used them also. but thos 2 stand out the most.

Tiger is not outrageously long off the tee for his build, and his build is easily achievable without PEDs.

People who do PEDS are generally extremely strong for their relative size.

Phil is just a really big dude, he lists himself as 6'3" and is probably hunching over barefoot and probably weighs a lot more than he did when he first listed himself at 20 years old at 190 pounds.

[imsys0042]

I voted no. I have my issues with what Tiger has done wrt golf (not personal issues). But he's too much of a competitor to enjoy winning by cheating or doing this. Like the supposed times he cheated, well I think he would do whatever is permitted by the rules but wouldn't knowingly cheat.

[motsco]

Tiger is not outrageously long off the tee for his build, and his build is easily achievable without PEDs. People who do PEDS are generally extremely strong for their relative size.

true, I should of said muscle size, both tiger and Phil looked like monsters before all the PED stuff went down, they had a lot of definition. I'm no way talking long of the tee, peds do more then make a long baller. jmo.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Tiger is not outrageously long off the tee for his build, and his build is easily achievable without PEDs.

People who do PEDS are generally extremely strong for their relative size.

true, I should of said muscle size, both tiger and Phil looked like monsters before all the PED stuff went down, they had a lot of definition. I'm no way talking long of the tee, peds do more then make a long baller. jmo.

Your definition of "monster" is much different than mine.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Most of my family is kind of "chunky" in build, so I suppose I consider it normal to gain and lose a little weight (30 pounds muscle and fat here and there). Many people gain and lose a lot of weight , and without PEDs.

[dkolo]

Your definition of "monster" is much different than mine.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Most of my family is kind of "chunky" in build, so I suppose I consider it normal to gain and lose a little weight (30 pounds muscle and fat here and there). Many people gain and lose a lot of weight, and without PEDs.

Working out was Tiger's anti-drug.

[iacas]

true, I should of said muscle size, both tiger and Phil looked like monsters before all the PED stuff went down, they had a lot of definition.

I don't think you ever saw Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson (who had man boobs and a gut) in person.

[Abu3baid]

One might think you would be one of the last to jump on the "guilt by association" train, but there you have it… 26-1 currently, btw.

I don't know much about trains, but I don't want to get too much off topic so... What I do know is that there is a lot of pressure on top athletes to perform, and I can also imagine how it is easy to convince someone when there is both motive and opportunity that hey this isn't really cheating, it is just going to make you heal faster, it's not like your going to be superman by taking this injection nor make you longer off the tee! This will just help you get back to playing sooner! Is there indisputable evidence? No, but there wasn't any with A-rod for the longest time and he was someone I followed from the day he came into the league and I definitely didn't want to believe that he was PED using! How about Ortiz from the sox? I wonder how many people defended him or still do? Besides, this is not like the doctor was a friend of a friend, or they met at a country club once or even we're good friends who went out to dinner.. This is documented visits (I already addressed Haney's account of the events), so it is a little different association. In regards to the 26 to 1 I have another stat for you.. 25% of your pros surveyed said yes as well.. I think 71 of them were surveyed, so I'm not alone! [URL]http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/almost-quarter-pga-tour-pros-surveyed-sports-illustrated-think-woods-took-peds[/URL]

[dkolo]

I don't know much about trains, but I don't want to get too much off topic so... What I do know is that there is a lot of pressure on top athletes to perform, and I can also imagine how it is easy to convince someone when there is both motive and opportunity that hey this isn't really cheating, it is just going to make you heal faster, it's not like your going to be superman by taking this injection nor make you longer off the tee! This will just help you get back to playing sooner!

Is there indisputable evidence? No, but there wasn't any with A-rod for the longest time and he was someone I followed from the day he came into the league and I definitely didn't want to believe that he was PED using! How about Ortiz from the sox? I wonder how many people defended him or still do?

Besides, this is not like the doctor was a friend of a friend, or they met at a country club once or even we're good friends who went out to dinner.. This is documented visits (I already addressed Haney's account of the events), so it is a little different association.

In regards to the 26 to 1 I have another stat for you.. 25% of your pros surveyed said yes as well.. I think 71 of them were surveyed, so I'm not alone!

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/almost-quarter-pga-tour-pros-surveyed-sports-illustrated-think-woods-took-peds

There are a lot of guys on Tour. Considering how few events Tiger plays, and that many of those are limited field events, I can imagine a lot of guys on Tour know Tiger Woods about as well as you or I do. The article mentions only 8% of guys polled knew of Tiger's marital indiscretions before they became public. I imagine Tiger would be more discreet about this sort of illicit stuff.

[iacas]

Besides, this is not like the doctor was a friend of a friend, or they met at a country club once or even we're good friends who went out to dinner.. This is documented visits (I already addressed Haney's account of the events), so it is a little different association.

You "addressed" his concerns by saying basically "I don't believe him." So you're putting your own opinion over the opinion of someone who was THERE and who states without a question that Tiger was not injected with anything but his own platelets.

[motsco]

I don't think you ever saw Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson (who had man boobs and a gut) in person.

I have seen them in person. just for giggles look at mark McGwire and others before Ped and after body sizes, and maybe injuries B&A.; you can go back in time, with books about sports and read how in almost every sport there was a pill or something that helped keep a leg up, players could claim stress, fatigue , or just trying to be better. i believe a lot of what was called greenies where used back in the day. I'm just saying what my eyes have seen. I'm not trying to discredit anybody. to tell you the truth it makes no difference to me if tiger did them. I'm sure there was dabbling with stuf by the greats of the past. a cigarette could almost be considered performance enhancing. if tiger did them or not none of us would know until the great book comes out. now, look at who he hung around with pre peds. and who he hangs with now. there could be a good debate for that? but we could debate DJ's coke habit that is now just a alcohol problem. but this is tigers thread :).

[mvmac]

much as my opinion won't be liked but I vote yes, both he and Phil I think did them, you just look at the size of their muscles before the Ped investigations started vs after, they both deflated and their games dropped a notch, I'm sure their are other golfers who used them also. but thos 2 stand out the most.

true, I should of said muscle size, both tiger and Phil looked like monsters before all the PED stuff went down, they had a lot of definition. I'm no way talking long of the tee, peds do more then make a long baller. jmo.

I'm not what you're seeing when you look at Phil, I don't see any definition or huge muscles. Same with Tiger, he isn't huge or that "cut".

Phil is just more fit, less body fat, than he was 6-10 years ago. Obviously taking steroids doesn't automatically give you muscle definition, you have to do the work with fitness and nutrition.

[Lihu]

On 2/17/2015 at 6:09 PM, motsco said:

I have seen them in person. just for giggles look at mark McGwire and others before Ped and after body sizes, and maybe injuries B&A.; you can go back in time, with books about sports and read how in almost every sport there was a pill or something that helped keep a leg up, players could claim stress, fatigue , or just trying to be better. i believe a lot of what was called greenies where used back in the day. I'm just saying what my eyes have seen. I'm not trying to discredit anybody. to tell you the truth it makes no difference to me if tiger did them. I'm sure there was dabbling with stuf by the greats of the past. a cigarette could almost be considered performance enhancing. if tiger did them or not none of us would know until the great book comes out. now, look at who he hung around with pre peds. and who he hangs with now. there could be a good debate for that? but we could debate DJ's coke habit that is now just a alcohol problem. but this is tigers thread :).

Phil is just about the last person I would accuse of taking PEDS. I don't understand the logic behind accusing people of taking PEDS, just because they changed their level of fitness? So, if I suddenly came out and stated that my average drive increased 25 yards in one month, would you accuse me of taking PEDS? Because this happened. . .without PEDS.

[motsco]

Phil is just about the last person I would accuse of taking PEDS. :-P I don't understand the logic behind accusing people of taking PEDS, just because they changed their level of fitness? So, if I suddenly came out and stated that my average drive increased 25 yards in one month, would you accuse me of taking PEDS? Because this happened. . .without PEDS.

lol. I dont know you or your age, do a massive muscle body build, know you have to do this without anything that could improve your performance. now that I wrote that, we all better look out cause one day we may have to use that little blue performance enhancing pill. :p.

[motsco]

[motsco]