All you 5-ish handicappers ..

[GolfLug]

.. you have a swing that is technically fairly sound and better than 99% (give or take a couple) of the general golfing population. Let's assume that you have your eyes and heart set on getting down to scratch.

So, at what point of your handicap did you say/decide that to reduce your shot dispersion to a scratch level:

A) since you already have is a mechanically sound swing or the best swing your body will produce, what you need is to focus mostly on reducing lapses (5 keys violations, etc.) to reduce your shot dispersion further.

OR

B) I need a better swing still., i.e., I need to change/improve the 'picture' further - get in better positions still in my swing?

I am sure for lot or even most of you high achievers it is a combination of both, but it would be interesting to know which one of A. or B. is higher percentage?

[deason]

I'm on 13 and thought that to get to scratch i need to rebuild my swing and work out on my limitations and parts of my anatomy that lack the required strength.

When I get to 5 (because I will) I will know it will be down to things like course management, pre round mobility and firing of the right parts of my body for my swing, putting and increased luck :)

[Deryck Griffith]

I am below a 5 and to be completely honest, for me, more of B and within B, literally getting MUCH better at hitting my driver off of the tee.

I lose way too many strokes and or do not place myself in good positions off of the tee enough with my driver.  Me hitting the driver poorly usually forces me to play overly conservative off of the tee (hitting hybrids, long irons, etc) to try and find the fairway.  While this approach works on shorter holes, it also hurts me because:

• I don't take advantage of the shorter holes by driving it closer to the green so I can have a better chance to score birdie (and have a higher guaranteed percentage to make par).
• Not hitting driver well enough doesn't allow me take advantage of par 5s more consistently so I can make more birdies.
• On the long par 4s I leave myself with a much longer second shot which increases my chance of making a bogey (or worst).  One the same Long par 4s, if I do decide to hit the driver (because I really have to due to the length of the hole) and I hit an errant drive, the percentage to make bogey increases tremendously because "it's a longer hole and the errant drive really put me behind the eight ball."

Keep in mind, when I hit a good drive, distance isn't an issue as I can put it out there.  On that same token, long and crooked is detrimental because you reach stuff (out of bounds, water, and other hazards, etc) because the ball will carry further into the crap when it isn't hit on the intended line.

There have been many debates in this forum about what rules in the game of golf and it's has been pretty much proven that ball striking is everything in order to play to a very high level.  For me, my ball striking isn't perfect but good enough to be below a 5 handicap (and that's without even having good chipping / pitching ability.  I can putt though and with that, barely even practice it).  I practice mostly on my ball striking and have a above average iron game.  The same swing however produces a below average driver game...

So to circle back to your question, it's getting my swing better so I can hit the driver better.  Off of the tee is where is all starts and from there, the game is much more enjoyable to play and also where the most success is had.  If I hit a good driver and am in the fairway and miss the green with my second shot, more times than not, the miss from the fairway with my iron shot is closer to the green and being closer to the green with my miss means I have a better chance of getting up and down for par.  Conversely, if my driver is deep in the rough where there is obstruction, my second shot missing the green is a much higher percentage and furthermore, that green miss will more than likely be much further from the green creating a much more difficult shot to get up and down for par.

It's simple common sense really and with that, being a better ball striker will get me closer to scratch.

[mchepp]

To get to scratch I need to hit it farther and straighter, so B

[cipher]

.. you have a swing that is technically fairly sound and better than 99% (give or take a couple) of the general golfing population. Let's assume that you have your eyes and heart set on getting down to scratch.

So, at what point of your handicap did you say/decide that to reduce your shot dispersion to a scratch level:

A) since you already have is a mechanically sound swing or the best swing your body will produce, what you need is to focus mostly on reducing lapses (5 keys violations, etc.) to reduce your shot dispersion further.

OR

B) I need a better swing still., i.e., I need to change/improve the 'picture' further - get in better positions still in my swing?

I am sure for lot or even most of you high achievers it is a combination of both, but it would be interesting to know which one of A. or B. is higher percentage?

You need to work with an instructor IMO that can identify your most glaring weakness in the swing.   You work on it until it is time to move on to the next issue.  Then at some point you just gotta play and learn to post a score and keep an eye on things making minor adjustments.  For most 5ish players, we still don't really have spectacular swing. It is more B for me as for the way I have been going at it.

[Bird E3]

I'm a 4.9, and I'll say B. My iron play from outside 145 yards isn't great. I swing a bit over the top, but my accuracy off the tee, wedge play and putting allow me to shoot well. I feel like I'll never be scratch, I shot even par once in my life, and I had to hit some ridiculous shots to pull it off.

[Bird E3]

I am below a 5 and to be completely honest, for me, more of B and within B, literally getting MUCH better at hitting my driver off of the tee. I lose way too many strokes and or do not place myself in good positions off of the tee enough with my driver.  Me hitting the driver poorly usually forces me to play overly conservative off of the tee (hitting hybrids, long irons, etc) to try and find the fairway.  While this approach works on shorter holes, it also hurts me because: [LIST] [*] I don't take advantage of the shorter holes by driving it closer to the green so I can have a better chance to score birdie (and have a higher guaranteed percentage to make par). [*] Not hitting driver well enough doesn't allow me take advantage of par 5s more consistently so I can make more birdies. [*] On the long par 4s I leave myself with a much longer second shot which increases my chance of making a bogey (or worst).  One the same Long par 4s, if I do decide to hit the driver (because I really have to due to the length of the hole) and I hit an errant drive, the percentage to make bogey increases tremendously because "it's a longer hole and the errant drive really put me behind the eight ball."  [/LIST] Keep in mind, when I hit a good drive, distance isn't an issue as I can put it out there.  On that same token, long and crooked is detrimental because you reach stuff (out of bounds, water, and other hazards, etc) because the ball will carry further into the crap when it isn't hit on the intended line. There have been many debates in this forum about what rules in the game of golf and it's has been pretty much proven that ball striking is everything in order to play to a very high level.  For me, my ball striking isn't perfect but good enough to be below a 5 handicap (and that's without even having good chipping / pitching ability.  I can putt though and with that, barely even practice it).  I practice mostly on my ball striking and have a above average iron game.  The same swing however produces a below average driver game... So to circle back to your question, it's getting my swing better so I can hit the driver better.  Off of the tee is where is all starts and from there, the game is much more enjoyable to play and also where the most success is had.  If I hit a good driver and am in the fairway and miss the green with my second shot, more times than not, the miss from the fairway with my iron shot is closer to the green and being closer to the green with my miss means I have a better chance of getting up and down for par.  Conversely, if my driver is deep in the rough where there is obstruction, my second shot missing the green is a much higher percentage and furthermore, that green miss will more than likely be much further from the green creating a much more difficult shot to get up and down for par. It's simple common sense really and with that, being a better ball striker will get me closer to scratch.

Try shortening your Driver. I'm 6"1 and hit a 44 inch driver. Sure I may lose 10 yards on perfect hits, but but I have way more drives off the center of the face with a shorter driver so my average is probably the same. Most people are 25% more accurate with a shorter driver...it's worth the trade off. Sergio hit a 43 inch driver.

[Torres9]

Thing is... Being a 5, sometimes I can shoot par, and even go low time to time, but honestly I'm trying to build my swing to be the most consistent over the long haul, and reduce those few but prevalent times I press and it's off. My short game/putting is strong, so my work is currently going into my swing so I do not have think about swings once spring hits. Once you get a lower hcp it becomes more about subtle tweaks, mental strength and staying healthy.

[Smilesy]

I’ve been around 2-4 for the last couple of years and have really struggled to get down to scratch (which is my main goal). A couple of years ago I would have said B all day. I was hitting solid drives but my iron play and short game just wasn’t up to the level needed. I’ve worked hard and now hit around 12 greens in reg for most rounds, 15ish in good ones, with 10 fairways. Stats wise that should get me pretty close to scratch if not plue, the issue is more mental for me now.

The last 5 rounds I've played (including a couple of tournament rounds) I have been under par (between -3 and -1) after 9, then have fallen apart and finished around 4 over. It is all mental, which is very annoying, as I seem to find it much harder to sort out than physical swing issues. An example is my last tournament, I started par, birdie, birdie, birdie, then pared in to the turn. I then for reason which I'm still trying to work out, I got really tight and went into defensive mode and ended up 3 over.

The one technical area I am still working on it my putting, which isn’t bad, I very rarely 3 putt, but I also don’t make anyway near enough of the 10-15 footers.

[Jameson]

Been reading trough all your comments, and finally reach to the conclusion that the Driver is crucial to shoot low scores. And is my biggest flaw. Going to train with it most of the time from now on. Definitely.

[Gunther]

I was a 5.2 a couple years ago and scratch wasn't a goal, just too big a leap. My goal was to get to 4, actually went to 6, stayed there quite awhile and then moved further upward. My approach was A. Just don't have the time to retool my swing so I thought with more reps, better focus, etc., I could continue down. Guess that was the wrong approach but that's how I did it. If you have the time and scratch is truly your goal, retooling is probably the way to go. It's a long way from 5 to 0.

[cipher]

I’ve been around 2-4 for the last couple of years and have really struggled to get down to scratch (which is my main goal). A couple of years ago I would have said B all day. I was hitting solid drives but my iron play and short game just wasn’t up to the level needed. I’ve worked hard and now hit around 12 greens in reg for most rounds, 15ish in good ones, with 10 fairways. Stats wise that should get me pretty close to scratch if not plue, the issue is more mental for me now.

The last 5 rounds I've played (including a couple of tournament rounds) I have been under par (between -3 and -1) after 9, then have fallen apart and finished around 4 over. It is all mental, which is very annoying, as I seem to find it much harder to sort out than physical swing issues. An example is my last tournament, I started par, birdie, birdie, birdie, then pared in to the turn. I then for reason which I'm still trying to work out, I got really tight and went into defensive mode and ended up 3 over.

The one technical area I am still working on it my putting, which isn’t bad, I very rarely 3 putt, but I also don’t make anyway near enough of the 10-15 footers.

I get what you are saying but, I don't really agree with it.  It might be partly mental but should not even close to all mental as you mentioned. I think that is just something that is easy to say when we cannot identify what the source of the problem really is. Why did you get tight? Yeah you were probably thinking about not screwing up.  But why?  I have done the same thing in a tournament.  And it was not a mental issue.  Even though I told myself that.  The truth is my swing did not hold up.  I was not consistent enough to hit a bunch of fairways and greens for 18 holes.  Subconsciously I knew that, even though I wanted to tell myself something different.  I think you have to own your pattern and when you develop a pattern that you can trust to hit a bunch of greens and nGIR(Lowest Score Wins) the mental problems are lessened and should not be an issue for most of us.  Unless we are in need of an psychological intervention.

[GolfLug]

I get what you are saying but, I don't really agree with it.  It might be partly mental but should not even close to all mental as you mentioned. I think that is just something that is easy to say when we cannot identify what the source of the problem really is. Why did you get tight? Yeah you were probably thinking about not screwing up.  But why?  I have done the same thing in a tournament.  And it was not a mental issue.  Even though I told myself that.  The truth is my swing did not hold up.  I was not consistent enough to hit a bunch of fairways and greens for 18 holes.  Subconsciously I knew that, even though I wanted to tell myself something different.  I think you have to own your pattern and when you develop a pattern that you can trust to hit a bunch of greens and nGIR(Lowest Score Wins) the mental problems are lessened and should not be an issue for most of us.  Unless we are in need of an psychological intervention.

Yeah this is where it gets grey IMO. Then wouldn't that favor A) more so than B)?

[cipher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfLug

Yeah this is where it gets grey IMO. Then wouldn't that favor A) more so than B)?

B for me.  I need to get better yet so I can trust my swing more.  I do not have a mechanically sound swing that is in A.  No 5 HC does that I am aware of.

Quote:

B) I need a better swing still., i.e., I need to change/improve the 'picture' further - get in better positions still in my swing?

[GolfLug]

B for me.  I need to get better yet so I can trust my swing more.  I do not have a mechanically sound swing that is in A.  No 5 HC does that I am aware of.

Thanks! Would you mind if I ask you what is your priority piece?

[GolfLug]

I was a 5.2 a couple years ago and scratch wasn't a goal, just too big a leap. My goal was to get to 4, actually went to 6, stayed there quite awhile and then moved further upward.

My approach was A. Just don't have the time to retool my swing so I thought with more reps, better focus, etc., I could continue down. Guess that was the wrong approach but that's how I did it.

If you have the time and scratch is truly your goal, retooling is probably the way to go. It's a long way from 5 to 0.

Thanks. So are you re-tooling or you have you decided to just live with what you have? Would you mind sharing details if you are re-tooling., i.e., priority piece, etc.?

[cipher]

Thanks! Would you mind if I ask you what is your priority piece?

Key #1, Steady head .

[billchao]

I'm obviously not a 5, @GolfLug , but it seems to me that the mechanical issues you described in scenario A are best solved by B. Are you asking people if they live with whatever compensations they already make and focus on other aspects of the game to improve scoring as A?