PGA Tour Players WD Too Often

[dkolo]

I doubt it if a guy gets cramps and quits due to injury scenario would happen a lot.   If you or billchao and others have ideas to entertain to deter "fakers" from WD'ng, I am all ears.   No rules is going to make everyone happy, or be fair to all.   So, I understand if your idea may not be fool proof but share what you think may work.   I assume you all jumped to this thread b/c you care about excessive number of WDs on the current tournament, no?

I don't have any evidence that there's a problem with excessive WDs that merits a solution to be made. The solution I'd be comfortable with right now, absent further evidence of this being an actual problem, would be a comment from Finchem to the players at the next player's meeting along the lines of "Listen, we had a number of players withdraw at last week's tournament. We expect that if you start the tournament, you finish the tournament, and that you be honest about your health if you do feel a need to withdraw." Anything more than that is unnecessary at this juncture, in my view.

[Golfingdad]

I don't have any evidence that there's a problem with excessive WDs that merits a solution to be made. The solution I'd be comfortable with right now, absent further evidence of this being an actual problem, would be a comment from Finchem to the players at the next player's meeting along the lines of "Listen, we had a number of players withdraw at last week's tournament. We expect that if you start the tournament, you finish the tournament, and that you be honest about your health if you do feel a need to withdraw." Anything more than that is unnecessary at this juncture, in my view.

100% agree.

[dkolo]

Just for perspective, I checked the past few years' tournaments. The number of withdrawals each year:

2014: 7

2013: 5

2012: 9

2011: 2

2010: 4

2009: 2

2008: 2

The tournament switched to TPC San Antonio in 2010. Maybe it's just a rough course to play? In any event, WDs have happened and life has gone on.

[Quadhole]

No, because I also have straight bets on some too... :)

I was already out because i had Cejka on almost every team. Had no chance of cashing out this week. It does take away from the fantasy side of it for all followers and game players, money or not. You pick a player because you feel he is a great golfer. Only to learn a 20 mph wind gave him a triple boogie and he decides to WD. it just sucks and the PGA has to stop it. There are ways to do it. I am sure most PRO's will agree too. Just not on thew week that they do bad and WD.

[Fourputt]

No, because I also have straight bets on some too... :)

I was already out because i had Cejka on almost every team. Had no chance of cashing out this week. It does take away from the fantasy side of it for all followers and game players, money or not. You pick a player because you feel he is a great golfer. Only to learn a 20 mph wind gave him a triple boogie and he decides to WD. it just sucks and the PGA has to stop it. There are ways to do it. I am sure most PRO's will agree too. Just not on thew week that they do bad and WD.

So who the hell cares about your "teams"?  That's your problem not theirs.  They feel that they need to withdraw, then they withdraw.  You feel you need to gamble on them then you take your chances.  No sympathy from here at all.

[Quadhole]

I don't have any evidence that there's a problem with excessive WDs that merits a solution to be made. The solution I'd be comfortable with right now, absent further evidence of this being an actual problem, would be a comment from Finchem to the players at the next player's meeting along the lines of "Listen, we had a number of players withdraw at last week's tournament. We expect that if you start the tournament, you finish the tournament, and that you be honest about your health if you do feel a need to withdraw." Anything more than that is unnecessary at this juncture, in my view.

That would work well on the Web.com tour where they don't consider themselves ELITE. These guys would look up, shake their heads and state "yes, we agree" then look at each other and roll their eye's. Common sense is where this falls, but is not how it will be policed because of the players running the hen house.

You will never have proof. Just like the NFL would never have proof of drug use without the testing. Ask anyone of them before the testing started if the Smoked Pot. You would get a 100% NO ! Ask them again in 20 years when it is legal and you will gewt 60% Yea man... Stop by and burn one.

All this is going to do is chase the fans away a little, enough to make a difference, not yet... Just like everything else, let it go until it is a BIG problem, dont really address it as it is too small of one now and not enough complaints.

As shown above, the 2012 WDs are different then this year. First, 3 of them are before it even starts and 3 of them are from players that made the cut and had to received injuries. It is the other 3 with BAD scores.

Also as stated above, you never see a subpar leader droping out unless legit hurt. I understand your position and would expect this from the PGA for a while.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

I doubt it if a guy gets cramps and quits due to injury scenario would happen a lot.   If you or billchao and others have ideas to entertain to deter "fakers" from WD'ng, I am all ears.   No rules is going to make everyone happy, or be fair to all.   So, I understand if your idea may not be fool proof but share what you think may work.   I assume you all jumped to this thread b/c you care about excessive number of WDs on the current tournament, no?

I don't have any evidence that there's a problem with excessive WDs that merits a solution to be made. The solution I'd be comfortable with right now, absent further evidence of this being an actual problem, would be a comment from Finchem to the players at the next player's meeting along the lines of "Listen, we had a number of players withdraw at last week's tournament. We expect that if you start the tournament, you finish the tournament, and that you be honest about your health if you do feel a need to withdraw." Anything more than that is unnecessary at this juncture, in my view.

I've been keeping track of LPGA & PGA WD numbers.  There seems to be several WDs per tournament, almost like a clock work.   I played about 800 rounds and I can't remember a round I quit b/c I was injured.   I probably played through some pain here and there but can't recall walking out of the course with an injury.    My point is, golf, unlike other contact sports (boxing, soccer, basketball, ...) is not a sport that injuries occur at the rate of 1 - 3 players WD'ng from every tournament.   Of course I have no proof that people are faking injuries but  I am not naive enough to believe that many of these injuries are not in between their ears after a poor round.

Then came the recent Valero event where the average first round score was 78+ & there were 7 WDs.    This tipped me over enough to respond to this thread.   Hopefully, Valero does not set the tone for future tournaments that are wind challenged.

[SavvySwede]

Can we back up a little bit and actually confirm that this is a problem before we start talking about solutions?  Because I don't believe for one second that it is.  (We can't just take quadholes word for it because he gambles money on these guys)

Who really "missed" watching Graeme McDowell finishing out his 82 yesterday?  Secondly, and more importantly, how would him continuing yesterday BENEFIT the PGA tour?

Same question for the other guys who all either finished in the vicinity of +10, or were well on their way to something similar?

Exactly, nobody on the bottom of the leaderboard is getting TV time or any attention from the gallery. (Except for the hole by hole coverage of Tiger shooting 75) They'd get cut on Friday anyway and we can forget about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkolo

I don't have any evidence that there's a problem with excessive WDs that merits a solution to be made. The solution I'd be comfortable with right now, absent further evidence of this being an actual problem, would be a comment from Finchem to the players at the next player's meeting along the lines of "Listen, we had a number of players withdraw at last week's tournament. We expect that if you start the tournament, you finish the tournament, and that you be honest about your health if you do feel a need to withdraw." Anything more than that is unnecessary at this juncture, in my view.

That would work well on the Web.com tour where they don't consider themselves ELITE. These guys would look up, shake their heads and state "yes, we agree" then look at each other and roll their eye's. Common sense is where this falls, but is not how it will be policed because of the players running the hen house.

You will never have proof. Just like the NFL would never have proof of drug use without the testing. Ask anyone of them before the testing started if the Smoked Pot. You would get a 100% NO ! Ask them again in 20 years when it is legal and you will gewt 60% Yea man... Stop by and burn one.

All this is going to do is chase the fans away a little, enough to make a difference, not yet... Just like everything else, let it go until it is a BIG problem, dont really address it as it is too small of one now and not enough complaints.

As shown above, the 2012 WDs are different then this year. First, 3 of them are before it even starts and 3 of them are from players that made the cut and had to received injuries. It is the other 3 with BAD scores.

Also as stated above, you never see a subpar leader droping out unless legit hurt. I understand your position and would expect this from the PGA for a while.

You do realize golfers typically play better when they are healthy, right?

[rkim291968]

You do realize golfers typically play better when they are healthy, right?

Injury can happen any time in the tournament and does not discriminate between a player who was playing well vs was playing poor.

[dkolo]

That would work well on the Web.com tour where they don't consider themselves ELITE. These guys would look up, shake their heads and state "yes, we agree" then look at each other and roll their eye's. Common sense is where this falls, but is not how it will be policed because of the players running the hen house.

You will never have proof. Just like the NFL would never have proof of drug use without the testing. Ask anyone of them before the testing started if the Smoked Pot. You would get a 100% NO ! Ask them again in 20 years when it is legal and you will gewt 60% Yea man... Stop by and burn one.

All this is going to do is chase the fans away a little, enough to make a difference, not yet... Just like everything else, let it go until it is a BIG problem, dont really address it as it is too small of one now and not enough complaints.

As shown above, the 2012 WDs are different then this year. First, 3 of them are before it even starts and 3 of them are from players that made the cut and had to received injuries. It is the other 3 with BAD scores.

Also as stated above, you never see a subpar leader droping out unless legit hurt. I understand your position and would expect this from the PGA for a while.

I understand you may be personally frustrated, but I'll refer you to my post a few minutes ago that demonstrates that this week's WD numbers are in line with what they have been the past few years. It's not unusual. I don't see a reason to make dramatic changes when the problem has occurred in the past and there hasn't been any corresponding drop-off in viewership or questions about the integrity of the tournament. Like I said, it may just be the nature of the golf course. Watching yesterday, it seems like a hell of a walk and the fairways funnel in on both sides so you get a lot of uneven stances. Maybe the course is injuring the players? I would investigate that angle first, since that actually affects the integrity of the tournament.

I've been keeping track of LPGA & PGA WD numbers.  There seems to be several WDs per tournament, almost like a clock work.   I played about 800 rounds and I can't remember a round I quit b/c I was injured.   I probably played through some pain here and there but can't recall walking out of the course with an injury.    My point is, golf, unlike other contact sports (boxing, soccer, basketball, ...) is not a sport that injuries occur at the rate of 1 - 3 players WD'ng from every tournament.   Of course I have no proof that people are faking injuries but  I am not naive enough to believe that many of these injuries are not in between their ears after a poor round.

Then came the recent Valero event where the average first round score was 78+ & there were 7 WDs.    This tipped me over enough to respond to this thread.   Hopefully, Valero does not set the tone for future tournaments that are wind challenged.

You're not on the PGA Tour. These guys play 6+ rounds a week during tournament weeks, on top of training and practicing on the range. And that's without considering the mileage on the bodis and the high level that they play at, both skill-wise and exertion-wise. Respectfully, they have more physical stress from golf than you do.

[newtogolf]

I'm curious if you are all as outraged when the bottom level guys withdraw or just the top players?  When a player withdraws he forfeits any earnings he might have received for that tournament and now you want to penalize him for 2 - 3 more tournaments or 30 days?  I think you're minimizing the impact that lost income has on the guys ranked near the bottom, not everyone makes $100M a year playing golf. .

[rkim291968]

No, because I also have straight bets on some too... :)

I was already out because i had Cejka on almost every team. Had no chance of cashing out this week. It does take away from the fantasy side of it for all followers and game players, money or not. You pick a player because you feel he is a great golfer. Only to learn a 20 mph wind gave him a triple boogie and he decides to WD. it just sucks and the PGA has to stop it. There are ways to do it. I am sure most PRO's will agree too. Just not on thew week that they do bad and WD.

Chuckle.  Good point, one I wasn't aware of.

How about fans who bought tickets to go see specific player and he drops out b/c he had a questionable injury after an 81 round?   I am sure some fans bought tickets to see Molinari, Bae, and McDowell.

[rkim291968]

You're not on the PGA Tour. These guys play 6+ rounds a week during tournament weeks, on top of training and practicing on the range. And that's without considering the mileage on the bodis and the high level that they play at, both skill-wise and exertion-wise. Respectfully, they have more physical stress from golf than you do.

Hi, Dkolo.   You are not saying all injury claims are legit, right?

Valero - 7 WDs out of 144 players.  That's about 5% of total participants.    I think the only other sports that may approach that high injury rate are a few of the contact sports.

[dkolo]

Hi, Dkolo.   You are not saying all injury claims are legit, right?

I'm not saying any are legit or not because I have no direct knowledge to support such a statement. I know Tiger Woods has withdrawn with injury that required surgery. I know Rory McIlroy has withdrawn with an illegitimate injury he apologized for. So I know that all are not fake or legit. The relative proportions I can't speak to.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

You do realize golfers typically play better when they are healthy, right?

Injury can happen any time in the tournament and does not discriminate between a player who was playing well vs was playing poor.

Not really, the kind of injuries pros encounter are typically chronic injuries that flare up from time to time.  They are more likely to injure themselves when playing poorly because poor swings=poor mechanics=more compensations=more risk of injury

[Abu3baid]

Not really, the kind of injuries pros encounter are typically chronic injuries that flare up from time to time.  They are more likely to injure themselves when playing poorly because poor swings=poor mechanics=more compensations=more risk of injury

Their mechanics don't change from day to day, their poor swings are the same as their good swings.. I don't see the connection between playing poorly and getting injured..

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

Not really, the kind of injuries pros encounter are typically chronic injuries that flare up from time to time.  They are more likely to injure themselves when playing poorly because poor swings=poor mechanics=more compensations=more risk of injury

Their mechanics don't change from day to day, their poor swings are the same as their good swings.. I don't see the connection between playing poorly and getting injured..

You obviously haven't played injured. Try playing 18 with a sore wrist and tell me you're not compensating somehow to protect it.

[Patch]

I don't think the PGA has much of a problem with what ever the players do. I think the sponsors have more of a problem with whats going on. I think on the "Clout Meter", it probably goes something like #1 Sponsors, #2 Players, and #3 the PGA.

As far as WDs go, I have no thoughts what so ever on that. I treat DQs the same. I have more of a problem with the best of the best not playing in the same tournaments, more often. There seems to be too much picking, and choosing which tournaments they want to play in. It hurts the fan base, charities, and some tournaments revenue when they skip around.

Missed cuts are another matter for me. I think if a pro player misses a cut, they need play in the next week's qualifier to earn the right to play in that next tournament.