PGA Tour Players WD Too Often

[Golfingdad]

I think you're losing focus on what their job is.  Their primary job is to win and place high in golf tournaments, not ENTERTAIN.  No one makes the PGA Tour because they are a good entertainer, they make it because of their golf skills.  They may get paid more endorsement money if they are fan friendly or entertaining but that's not their job.  Phil doesn't get extra money from the tournament he won because he was a good entertainer.

As others have also pointed out, they are independent contractors not employees of the PGA Tour.  I've been an independent contractor, I got paid for the hours I worked.  If I didn't feel like working one day I forfeited the income I'd have made for that day.  If I missed an excessive amount of days I'd risk termination just as if a pro golfer withdraws from too many tournaments they risk losing their pro card if they don't earn enough in the tournaments they played in.

If you want to second guess and penalize every pro golfer that withdraws from a tournament you can expect the pro's will look to unionize and fight it.

Yeah, the reason this isn't a problem is the same reason Greg Norman was wrong a couple of weeks ago.  The PGA Tour is evolution at its finest and quickest.  Bust your ass and do well, or you're gone.  Period.

It's the team sports that have these types of problems with the players unions and the CBAs and the guaranteed contracts, etc, etc, etc.

[dkolo]

Yeah, the reason this isn't a problem is the same reason Greg Norman was wrong a couple of weeks ago.  The PGA Tour is evolution at its finest and quickest.  Bust your ass and do well, or you're gone.  Period.

It's the team sports that have these types of problems with the players unions and the CBAs and the guaranteed contracts, etc, etc, etc.

Absolutely. Guys who miss the cut don't make a penny. I'm surprised more players with no shot of playing the weekend don't withdraw. Speaks to their sense of honor, responsibility, yada yada.

If people who think this injury faking is a problem, make the overall purse distribution pay out progressively to everyone in the tournament regardless of cut. People respond to incentives. It would solve the "problem" if it's actually a problem (either in the WDs matter or that the WDs are fake injuries). It would also be monumentally stupid because it would reduce overall earnings for guys who finish high, so you'd be hurting the star players that ACTUALLY drive fan interest. But, hey, at least no one's faking injuries at the non-prestige tournaments nobody's watching because all the big names skipped them.

[isukgolf]

God I hope my work place does not adopt this policy ... So are they in the entertainment business or playing a sport called golf ... One should be able to withdraw anytime they want ... they are not under contractual agree to finish, so let them WD ... who knows maybe their glutes were not firing ... hell maybe they did want to go fishing ... its their choice. I think the NBA got in trouble for resting star athletes before the playoffs when they had locked down a playoff spot. Which makes the NBA in the partly in the entertainment business ...

[Golfingdad]

God I hope my work place does not adopt this policy ... So are they in the entertainment business or playing a sport called golf ... One should be able to withdraw anytime they want ... they are not under contractual agree to finish, so let them WD ... who knows maybe their glutes were not firing ... hell maybe they did want to go fishing ... its their choice. I think the NBA got in trouble for resting star athletes before the playoffs when they had locked down a playoff spot. Which makes the NBA in the partly in the entertainment business ...

Well, for the record, they're both in the entertainment business because without the fans, neither league exists. Although once a golfer is injured or "injured" and shooting 80 on Thursday, I'd argue that he ain't entertaining anybody on Friday (and he ain't playing the weekend anyway) so who gives a damn if he withdraws.

[Divot Master]

Football and basketball have problems with players faking injuries.  In some cases, players may lie down for a bit to try to break the momentum of the other team, in other cases it might be to give their own teammates a breather.  Now obviously, football and basketball are almost nothing like golf, they being team competitions waged against a clock.

In football at least (I don't know about basketball), they have a rule that the "injured" player causing the official time out while they are helped up or off the field, must in most cases sit out the next play.

What if we had a similar rule in golf?  Walk off the course mid round with an injury (real or imagined), and be required to sit out the following weeks' tournament.  Obviously a week is much more drastic than a play.  Perhaps this could be limited to repeat offenders?

[HanNL]

Football and basketball have problems with players faking injuries.  In some cases, players may lie down for a bit to try to break the momentum of the other team, in other cases it might be to give their own teammates a breather.  Now obviously, football and basketball are almost nothing like golf, they being team competitions waged against a clock.

In football at least (I don't know about basketball), they have a rule that the "injured" player causing the official time out while they are helped up or off the field, must in most cases sit out the next play.

What if we had a similar rule in golf?  Walk off the course mid round with an injury (real or imagined), and be required to sit out the following weeks' tournament.  Obviously a week is much more drastic than a play.  Perhaps this could be limited to repeat offenders?

The difference between football and golf that matters here is that you fake an injury in football to help yourself or your team (to gain an unfair advantage and thus you have to be punished for it). In golf it doesn't matter to anyone: playing bad is all your own doing and no other player is going to be influenced negatively by your faking. Worst case, your flight is going to play faster because you are playing all over the course and they're not. I say don't punish it.

[Fourputt]

God I hope my work place does not adopt this policy ...

So are they in the entertainment business or playing a sport called golf ...

One should be able to withdraw anytime they want ... they are not under contractual agree to finish, so let them WD ... who knows maybe their glutes were not firing ... hell maybe they did want to go fishing ... its their choice.

I think the NBA got in trouble for resting star athletes before the playoffs when they had locked down a playoff spot. Which makes the NBA in the partly in the entertainment business ...

Are you entertained by watching them play on TV?  Damn straight that they are in the entertainment business.  That prize money comes straight out of our pockets through the products we buy, and we pay that price to be well entertained.  Those products are what sponsor and support the game and the players.  Without media exposure, there is no advertising.   Without advertising that money would dry up overnight and the PGA Tour would be as extinct as the dinosaurs.

[iacas]

That prize money comes straight out of our pockets through the products we buy, and we pay that price to be well entertained.

Is it?

I don't think I've ever gotten gas from Valero. I don't have Farmer's Insurance. Uhhh… In fact, I don't know of any PGA Tour stops that have named sponsors I support. I have a Kia Sorento, but the sponsorship of the LPGA event had nothing to do with that purchase.

Sponsors are paying for advertising, and the "product" they're buying is our eyeballs to see and hear their name and logo.

[Gunther]

Is it? I don't think I've ever gotten gas from Valero. I don't have Farmer's Insurance. Uhhh… In fact, I don't know of any PGA Tour stops that have named sponsors I support. I have a Kia Sorento, but the sponsorship of the LPGA event had nothing to do with that purchase. Sponsors are paying for advertising, and the "product" they're buying is our eyeballs to see and hear their name and logo.

FYI, Valero is Dallas is $2.21 right now, just filled up Sat, in honor of Spieth. Didn't work...

[isukgolf]

I agree about the entertainment and PGA tour 100% ... but if a player wants to withdraw ... freaking let them ... should not be put up for a vote of the people spectating. If a person WD's enough I am sure he would start to loose sponsorships etc at some point

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

That prize money comes straight out of our pockets through the products we buy, and we pay that price to be well entertained.

Is it?

I don't think I've ever gotten gas from Valero. I don't have Farmer's Insurance. Uhhh… In fact, I don't know of any PGA Tour stops that have named sponsors I support. I have a Kia Sorento, but the sponsorship of the LPGA event had nothing to do with that purchase.

Sponsors are paying for advertising, and the "product" they're buying is our eyeballs to see and hear their name and logo.

I buy most of my gas these days from the pumps at the Farmer's Co-Op, I drive a Ford Edge (bought used, not because I saw it on TV, but because it had what I wanted for the price I was willing to pay).  I have no TaylorMade clubs, but I do have Titleist, Callaway, Cleveland and Bridgestone.  Makes it sound like I'm an advertiser's dream, but not one of those clubs is less than 5 years old.  But all of that is irrelevant.

Sponsors don't expect everyone to use every product advertised.  That doesn't make my comment invalid.  The odds are pretty good that you use, or have used, some of the myriad of products that pass across the screen during a golf broadcast.  You don't necessarily have that product because you saw it on TV, but that doesn't mean that the ads you see don't have something to do with product recognition somewhere in the back of your mind.

The point was that if we aren't entertained, we don't watch, and if we don't watch, the ads don't get seen.  If the ads don't get seen the sponsor pulls them and spends his promotional dollars on a venue where his product will be seen.  If that happens to the Tour, then the Tour fades away because it lives on TV money.  What the fans pay to see a tournament live is chicken feed.  It's TV that drives the Tour, and TV is entertainment (in theory), paid for by advertising dollars.

[newtogolf]

I buy most of my gas these days from the pumps at the Farmer's Co-Op, I drive a Ford Edge (bought used, not because I saw it on TV, but because it had what I wanted for the price I was willing to pay).  I have no TaylorMade clubs, but I do have Titleist, Callaway, Cleveland and Bridgestone.  Makes it sound like I'm an advertiser's dream, but not one of those clubs is less than 5 years old.  But all of that is irrelevant.

Sponsors don't expect everyone to use every product advertised.  That doesn't make my comment invalid.  The odds are pretty good that you use, or have used, some of the myriad of products that pass across the screen during a golf broadcast.  You don't necessarily have that product because you saw it on TV, but that doesn't mean that the ads you see don't have something to do with product recognition somewhere in the back of your mind.

The point was that if we aren't entertained, we don't watch, and if we don't watch, the ads don't get seen.  If the ads don't get seen the sponsor pulls them and spends his promotional dollars on a venue where his product will be seen.  If that happens to the Tour, then the Tour fades away because it lives on TV money.  What the fans pay to see a tournament live is chicken feed.  It's TV that drives the Tour, and TV is entertainment (in theory), paid for by advertising dollars.

If this is the case then we should expect that golf between the FedEx Cup Finals and Waste Management will be cancelled because the big names usually take a break during that time.

[Golfingdad]

Is it?

I don't think I've ever gotten gas from Valero. I don't have Farmer's Insurance. Uhhh… In fact, I don't know of any PGA Tour stops that have named sponsors I support. I have a Kia Sorento, but the sponsorship of the LPGA event had nothing to do with that purchase.

Sponsors are paying for advertising, and the "product" they're buying is our eyeballs to see and hear their name and logo.

If this is the case then we should expect that golf between the FedEx Cup Finals and Waste Management will be cancelled because the big names usually take a break during that time.

I feel like you guys are being real pedantic about this for some reason.  Would professional golf as we know it exist without the fans to consume it?  Of course not.  I believe that that's all that @Fourputt is saying.

(I may have just set a record with three "thats" in a 9 word sentence.  Beat that suckers!!)

[iacas]

I feel like you guys are being real pedantic about this for some reason.  Would professional golf as we know it exist without the fans to consume it?  Of course not.  I believe that that's all that@Fourputt is saying.

I disagree that it's pedantic. I'm just making the point that the "product" is "advertising."

I was happy to stop talking about it after one post. Continuing on would risk becoming pedantic.

[dkolo]

I feel like you guys are being real pedantic about this for some reason.  Would professional golf as we know it exist without the fans to consume it?  Of course not.  I believe that that's all that @Fourputt is saying. (I may have just set a record with three "thats" in a 9 word sentence.  Beat that suckers!!)

Add a few "For me, personally, I" and Shorty will love you. I agree with your statement. Fans drive the Tour ultimately. I just think the fundamental conceit of the thread is wrong: fans don't care about WDs and this has been going on for at least going back to Texas Opens in the 1980s.