Greens fees and expectations

[CarlOwen]

Hi all,

I was at the San Antonio TPC last week and had a very poor experience. Let me explain.

We arrived one hour early for a late morning tee time. At the pro shop we paid $640 for two greens fees which included a cart and range balls.

The first thing to rub me the wrong way was that they segregated the driving range. Non members were asked to hit from an area wholly separate and honestly, so far away from the member's range, it felt insulting.

Two, we get to the starter 3 minutes before our tee time which happened to be the same time as another foursome. It turns out, the other foursome was running late and teed off fairly promptly. That said, another foursome was just only beginning to putt on the first green.

After nearly 1 hour of what was obviously stacked up slow play, we left following the putting green of the third hole and headed back to the pro shop. We explained that we hadn't 6 or 7 hours to play a round-nor thought it was reasonable to wait 10 minutes before every shot. He was ungracious and refunded our money without apology.

Correct me If I am wrong, but when you spend this kind of money, you should be treated no different from club members and they should have at a minimum, 12 minute spacing on the tee sheet. This is not a $50 muni course where you grin and bear it, but supposed to be a world class elite facility.

Needless to say, this experience has really soured me. And will probably keep me from ever trying another TPC. Has anyone had similar TPC experiences, or is this just an a poorly run club?

[dkolo]

Hi all,

I was at the San Antonio TPC last week and had a very poor experience. Let me explain.

We arrived one hour early for a late morning tee time. At the pro shop we paid $640 for two greens fees which included a cart and range balls.

The first thing to rub me the wrong way was that they segregated the driving range. Non members were asked to hit from an area wholly separate and honestly, so far away from the member's range, it felt insulting.

Two, we get to the starter 3 minutes before our tee time which happened to be the same time as another foursome. It turns out, the other foursome was running late and teed off fairly promptly. That said, another foursome was just only beginning to putt on the first green.

After nearly 1 hour of what was obviously stacked up slow play, we left following the putting green of the third hole and headed back to the pro shop. We explained that we hadn't 6 or 7 hours to play a round-nor thought it was reasonable to wait 10 minutes before every shot. He was ungracious and refunded our money without apology.

Correct me If I am wrong, but when you spend this kind of money, you should be treated no different from club members and they should have at a minimum, 12 minute spacing on the tee sheet. This is not a $50 muni course where you grin and bear it, but supposed to be a world class elite facility.

Needless to say, this experience has really soured me. And will probably keep me from ever trying another TPC. Has anyone had similar TPC experiences, or is this just an a poorly run club?

I'm surprised they refunded your money. I think you have some good gripes, but I wouldn't have expected them to give you a refund. That's pretty good of them. If I were giving back almost $700, I wouldn't be too cheerful, either, in fairness to the pro shop guy!

[Golfingdad]

Hi all,

I was at the San Antonio TPC last week and had a very poor experience. Let me explain.

We arrived one hour early for a late morning tee time. At the pro shop we paid $640 for two greens fees which included a cart and range balls.

The first thing to rub me the wrong way was that they segregated the driving range. Non members were asked to hit from an area wholly separate and honestly, so far away from the member's range, it felt insulting.

Two, we get to the starter 3 minutes before our tee time which happened to be the same time as another foursome. It turns out, the other foursome was running late and teed off fairly promptly. That said, another foursome was just only beginning to putt on the first green.

After nearly 1 hour of what was obviously stacked up slow play, we left following the putting green of the third hole and headed back to the pro shop. We explained that we hadn't 6 or 7 hours to play a round-nor thought it was reasonable to wait 10 minutes before every shot. He was ungracious and refunded our money without apology.

Correct me If I am wrong, but when you spend this kind of money, you should be treated no different from club members and they should have at a minimum, 12 minute spacing on the tee sheet. This is not a $50 muni course where you grin and bear it, but supposed to be a world class elite facility.

Needless to say, this experience has really soured me. And will probably keep me from ever trying another TPC. Has anyone had similar TPC experiences, or is this just an a poorly run club?

I'm surprised they refunded your money. I think you have some good gripes, but I wouldn't have expected them to give you a refund. That's pretty good of them. If I were giving back almost $700, I wouldn't be too cheerful, either, in fairness to the pro shop guy!

Agreed.

The gripes about your on course experience are valid.  The gripes about the pro shop guy and aftermath, IMO based on what I'm given, are invalid.  Look at it this way:  You got to hit a bucket of balls at a nice range and then play 3 holes of a TPC .... FOR FREE.  I'd say that the attitude of the pro shop guy is immediately overridden by his willingness to give me a refund.  And I'd say thanks and never return.

To your original question, I have no idea, as I've never actually played a TPC, but if I had a guess, I'd say you're experience was probably atypical.

[newtogolf]

Did you inquire before booking the round what the tee time intervals were and the average time a round takes?  I think it was pretty decent of them to refund your money but I can appreciate your disappointment with the experience overall.  It's one of the top courses in the country so I'd expect it to be packed.   If you decide to sleep in your car to play Bethpage Black here in NY, prepare to spend 5-6 hours on the course unless you're the first group out.  The combination of a tough course that everyone wants to play (regardless of skill level) and no motorized carts makes for a long day.

For the 3 holes you did play, what did you think of the course?

[dkolo]

Did you inquire before booking the round what the tee time intervals were and the average time a round takes?  I think it was pretty decent of them to refund your money but I can appreciate your disappointment with the experience overall.  It's one of the top courses in the country so I'd expect it to be packed.   If you decide to sleep in your car to play Bethpage Black here in NY, prepare to spend 5-6 hours on the course unless you're the first group out.  The combination of a tough course that everyone wants to play (regardless of skill level) and no motorized carts makes for a long day.

For the 3 holes you did play, what did you think of the course?

It's really too bad that they don't know that the Black Course is an extremely difficult course, and that it's only recommended for highly skilled golfers. Haha

But yeah, it's a brutal walk from what I hear.

[newtogolf]

It's really too bad that they don't know that the Black Course is an extremely difficult course, and that it's only recommended for highly skilled golfers. Haha

But yeah, it's a brutal walk from what I hear.

LOL, yeah if they only had a sign like this one to warn people.

[Phil McGleno]

I do not know what a membership at the course costs but I am guessing it is more than $320 yet for that small sum you expected to be treated just like a member? Why? You might have some legitimate gripes but you no longer have them anymore since you got your money back.

[tristanhilton85]

As far as the range thing goes, I don't see the problem; while your green fees were expensive, I'm sure that the members there pay a lot more. Was the area you hit from in bad condition? If it was, then yeah, that's an issue, but if it was just a different area than the member range, then I don't see the problem. I'm sure that the guy in the pro shop could have been friendlier, but you got your money back, so in the end it came out how it should have.

[CarlOwen]

wow, I'm surprised by the responses, as if I should expect to be treated poorly just because it was a TPC course.

If you are guest at my club, you are treated with the same courtesy and respect as any full dues paying member. We would never stack up a bunch of guests just because we could. It would reflect poorly on the club. It's not even in the realm of possibility.

If they are creating a dual class at the TPC, they shouldn't even bother letting non members play. We asked for a refund, because 1) they wasted our time, and 2) I wasn't going to let them get away with it. I wrote the post because I was curious if this was de rigeur at the TPC, but since obviously, none of you have played at one, have nothing substantive to say, save for petty comments about being satisfied I got my money back.

As for the "free balls on the range" comment. Please.

Why I bothered on even posting this was for naught.

.

[Phil McGleno]

wow, I'm surprised by the responses, as if I should expect to be treated poorly just because it was a TPC course.

How were you treated poorly? You had to hit free range balls from a different part of the range? [quote name="CarlOwen" url="/t/81396/greens-fees-and-expectations#post_1129857"]Why I bothered on even posting this was for naught[/quote] Sorry. Let us all start over again. OOooooh, that stinks. You are so right. I agree with everything you said and do not have an opinion of my own-I will just echo yours. That is better?

[jamo]

The on-course stuff, sure. But when your complaint is that you didn't get an apology, you lose me.

[tristanhilton85]

I've played the TPC Stadium course at PGA West multiple times and have always been treated great.

[rkim291968]

wow, I'm surprised by the responses, as if I should expect to be treated poorly just because it was a TPC course.

If you are guest at my club, you are treated with the same courtesy and respect as any full dues paying member. We would never stack up a bunch of guests just because we could. It would reflect poorly on the club. It's not even in the realm of possibility.

If they are creating a dual class at the TPC, they shouldn't even bother letting non members play. We asked for a refund, because 1) they wasted our time, and 2) I wasn't going to let them get away with it. I wrote the post because I was curious if this was de rigeur at the TPC, but since obviously, none of you have played at one, have nothing substantive to say, save for petty comments about being satisfied I got my money back.

As for the "free balls on the range" comment. Please.

Why I bothered on even posting this was for naught.

.

Hi, CarlOwen.

I don't think you were treated poorly.   We all know, for any course, there are times when the pace is going to be exceptionally slow.  Even a 12 min tee time will not fix certain situations.   It seems you paid good money and your expectation went up accordingly.   The proper thing to do was to call the pro shop to send someone out to help nudge players to quicken their pace.   You didn't give the course a chance to remedy the situation.  Like others, I am surprised they refunded your green fee.  That's a good will gesture from the course.

I belong to an upscale golf club.   In our range, there is a couple of stalls reserved for the members only.   The members appreciate this special treatment (a small gesture, really) b/c they are the ones who paid big bucks to support the course.  Giving the better part of the range to the members is a good business decision.

It seems your expectation of the golf course went up beyond what you paid for the green fee.   It's like expecting Mercedes Benz to have excellent product quality b/c it costs a bundle.   Guess what?  You buy MB b/c of its reputation & luxury.  They won't refund your car if their engine warning light comes on for no reason.   They will try to fix it though.

[DrvFrShow]

$320 green fees #1 is why I won't play the course for a recreational round even if I was good enough. But we live in an era of constantly lowering expectations. We live in an era where we expect people to be rude and not say anything about it. Hitting a free bucket of balls that was worth $5. Then playing 3 holes at a 7 hr pace is, I'm sorry, not an enjoyable experience worth $320. Shoulda coulda woulda. Sorry. I'm not playing along here. He got his money back, yes, but that doesn't mean he should just shut up about it. Damn.

[isukgolf]

I have played TPC Scottsdale as well as the TPC Stadium at PGA West and never a problem. In fact, at both course we were treated very well.

[caniac6]

I don't think having members only areas is a bad thing. I really don't think of it as a slight to daily fee players, but I see it as a perk of membership. I am sure the members pay a hefty initiation, food minimum, and monthly dues. They have made a commitment to the club, and deserve more considerations than the daily player. It seems that the course had no shortage of players, so they must be doing something right. I think they were very generous giving you a refund. Some places might have just given you a rain check. Personally, I have a much different economic outlook about golf, and I have yet to see a $320 golf course. The most I have ever paid was $150 at Harbour Town, and I really didn't think it was worth it.

[ghalfaire]

wow, I'm surprised by the responses, as if I should expect to be treated poorly just because it was a TPC course.

If you are guest at my club, you are treated with the same courtesy and respect as any full dues paying member. We would never stack up a bunch of guests just because we could. It would reflect poorly on the club. It's not even in the realm of possibility.

If they are creating a dual class at the TPC, they shouldn't even bother letting non members play. We asked for a refund, because 1) they wasted our time, and 2) I wasn't going to let them get away with it. I wrote the post because I was curious if this was de rigeur at the TPC, but since obviously, none of you have played at one, have nothing substantive to say, save for petty comments about being satisfied I got my money back.

As for the "free balls on the range" comment. Please.

Why I bothered on even posting this was for naught.

.

I believe you have some legitimate complaints.  I belong to a club and non-members are treated like members while at the club even if they are not playing with member.  As to the pace of play there are times when it can be slow but usually it is a good pace, 4 hours  +/- a few minutes for a round.  At our club however non-members cannot play unless a member "sponsors" them and/or plays with them. Therefor most guests are friends or business associates of a member and so are prone to behave on the course and the staff knows the non-member will report back on their experience.  Most clubs have "free" range balls and we only have one range so all use it.

So while you have some complaints you did get your money back and I don't know what else the club could do.  But I think it would have been decent of them to forewarn you that play was slow that day before you paid.  Of course, since it was a new setting for you,  you should have inquired as to the expected pace of play.  Some courses around here will tell you when you sign up and also tell you if you don't maintain the pace you'll be ask to pick up and go the next hole until you have caught up with the group in front of you.  We don't do that but if you're way out of position you'll be politely ask to please pick up the pace and until you catch up to the group in front of you.

[DocWu1948]

Well, I paid $20 to walk 18 yesterday and had a great time. $50 green fees are not in my bag. However, I'd drop the money to play/stay at a iconic course like Pebble, and I would expect to have a knowledgeable caddy, friendly staff everywhere, and would be ready to pay out a bundle in tips. Wouldn't mind waiting to hit though. I'd want a slower round so I could look at things. A TPC track in Texas doesn't get my attention. Nonetheless, unless they were rude to you, which doesn't sound like it happened, you're just another victim of slow play. Looking at their tee time reservation page, they appear to have a 10 minute interval. The trouble must be, when someone in front of you pays $300 for a round, he doesn't want to hear that he cannot hit his 160 yard drive from the tips. So he flips it into the rough, and that holds up everyone, members, hotel guests, and walk-ons. I also see that their website will sell a tee time at full price at 6:55PM, even though the sun sets at 8PM today. I hope that's a programmers oversight.