Playing Golf with Someone Carrying a Weapon

[14ledo81]

[quote name="14ledo81" url="/t/81903/playing-golf-with-someone-carrying-a-weapon/100_100#post_1144042"] So it's the nutty person that bothers you, not necessarily the gun?

"Nutty person" and "Nutty person with a gun" provoke two different reactions in my mind.[/quote] How about "nutty person with a deadly weapon in relatively remote area".... The golf club could do some serious damage.

[newtogolf]

I don't think that's the case.  You may be putting words in some posters mouth here.   I think people worry about a few who don't know how to handle their gun, like the guy who flashed his gun on a golf course.   Stat wise, most gun owners are responsible regular folks.   As for me, I don't know how to tell from a bad gun owner to responsible ones.  Hence, I will opt not to play with golfers who bring guns to the course.

But will you get in a car with a guy driving that's had a few beers?  How do you tell the good drunk drivers from the bad ones?

[David in FL]

"Nutty person" and "Nutty person with a gun" provoke two different reactions in my mind.

Me too! Just as drunk and drunk behind the wheel of a car provoke two different reactions in my mind. Unfortunately, a lot of people (usually out of ignorance) assume that gun equals nutty. Few if any of those same people wouldn't assume that driving equals drunk.... I would not get into a car with someone I knew to be drunk. Nor would I hang around an armed person that I knew to be irrational, imbalanced, and incapable of acting responsibly. But I don't infer drunkenness or irresponsibility, simply because they're either driving, or armed.

[RussUK]

"Nutty person" and "Nutty person with a gun" provoke two different reactions in my mind.

Yep, to me "Nutty Person" just describes the strange man who has to sit next to you on a bus despite all the other seats being free, who the  proceeds to show you the contents of his "special" plastic bag. Now if said nutty person had a gun then that would be a bad bad situation.

That bloke's the reason i drive a car!

[rehmwa]

But will you get in a car with a guy driving that's had a few beers?  How do you tell the good drunk drivers from the bad ones?

that's a crappy analogy

taking a walk with someone with a gun is equivalent to taking a drive with someone that has a car - that's it

unless you assume every single person with a car is a drunk - then you are welcome to that analogy

so -

if a driver is obviously drunk?  I won't ride with him

analogously - if a gun wielder is obviously homocidal?  I won't take a walk with him  (on the other hand, if a golfer is obviously homocidal - gun or not - I won't take a walk with him)

[turtleback]

I question the judgment of someone who feels they need a weapon on an every day type golf course. If personal safety is that great of a concern, should they not also wear a vest? And they might be engaged by a threat at a distance. A semi automatic rifle is really what they need so as to engage the enemy at a proper distance.

So when I am told a fellow golfer is carrying or they display their "protection", I will choose to follow in the next group.

Don't bullets fly further than from one hole to the previous hole?  You better hope no one in your group is the kind that hits into the group ahead to speed them up.

But I do hope if you or someone in your family ever gets attacked there is someone of a different opinion nearby to rescue them.

If you carry for personal protection there is no way of knowing when you might need it.  So the question is not "where is it necessary to carry it", the question is "where is it safe enough to forgo carrying it".  Totally different mindset.

And personally I don't carry, do not own a handgun, have never even shot a handgun.  But it is not a one-size-fits-all world and I can recognize that just because I was brought up in circumstances where having a gun is just not what anyone in my family did, that doesn't mean other people were not brought up in other circumstances where having a gun was either necessary or routine.   And I enjoy the knowledge that I am still partially protected by the vaccine effect.  If enough responsible people around me are carrying I just might be saved by a gun without having to carry one.

[David in FL]

But I do hope if you or someone in your family ever gets attacked there is someone of a different opinion nearby to rescue them. If you carry for personal protection there is no way of knowing when you might need it.  So the question is not "where is it necessary to carry it", the question is "where is it safe enough to forgo carrying it".  Totally different mindset. And personally I don't carry, do not own a handgun, have never even shot a handgun.  But it is not a one-size-fits-all world and I can recognize that just because I was brought up in circumstances where having a gun is just not what anyone in my family did, that doesn't mean other people were not brought up in other circumstances where having a gun was either necessary or routine.   And I enjoy the knowledge that I am still partially protected by the vaccine effect.  If enough responsible people around me are carrying I just might be saved by a gun without having to carry one.

A very good, cogent post.

[Golfingdad]

Me too! Just as drunk and drunk behind the wheel of a car provoke two different reactions in my mind. Unfortunately, a lot of people (usually out of ignorance) assume that gun equals nutty. Few if any of those same people wouldn't assume that driving equals drunk....

I would not get into a car with someone I knew to be drunk. Nor would I hang around an armed person that I knew to be irrational, imbalanced, and incapable of acting responsibly. But I don't infer drunkenness or irresponsibility, simply because they're either driving, or armed.

Your analogies don't line up, and why are you assuming that choosing not to associate with a guy carrying a gun automatically means that people think he's a nut? That's a ridiculous jump to conclusions.  I don't think a person with a gun is any more likely to be nutty an a person without one.  However, I do believe that if it turns out that the stranger I got paired up with IS a nut, then I'd simply prefer he didn't also carry a gun.

You say you would not get into a car with somebody who was drunk.  Well, no freaking doy.  Neither would anybody on the planet who's not a complete moron.  The better analogy is if you would accept a ride home from a stranger and all you knew about him was that he was at the bar having fun as long as you were.  Maybe he had a lot to drink, maybe not, and (for the sake of the analogy) there is no way to tell.

And just to repeat ... nobody is "inferring" irresponsibility, they're just considering the consequences of said irresponsibility in their decisions.  There is (should be) no shame or ridicule in that.

[David in FL]

Your analogies don't line up, and why are you assuming that choosing not to associate with a guy carrying a gun automatically means that people think he's a nut? That's a ridiculous jump to conclusions.  I don't think a person with a gun is any more likely to be nutty an a person without one.  However, I do believe that if it turns out that the stranger I got paired up with IS a nut, then I'd simply prefer he didn't also carry a gun.

You say you would not get into a car with somebody who was drunk.  Well, no freaking doy.  Neither would anybody on the planet who's not a complete moron.  The better analogy is if you would accept a ride home from a stranger and all you knew about him was that he was at the bar having fun as long as you were.  Maybe he had a lot to drink, maybe not, and (for the sake of the analogy) there is no way to tell.

And just to repeat ... nobody is "inferring" irresponsibility, they're just considering the consequences of said irresponsibility in their decisions.  There is (should be) no shame or ridicule in that.

Because even though they represent less than a 3d of the responses, 27 people have said that they wouldn't even play golf with someone who is armed..... solely on that basis. Presumably they wouldn't mind playing with the same person if he didn't have a weapon.  So, unless you're telling me that they're afraid that the gun is somehow going to put them in danger by itself , then yes, the logical inference is that they're afraid that the person himself is the danger, and not responsible.

[Golfingdad]

Because even though they represent less than a 3d of the responses, 27 people have said that they wouldn't even play golf with someone who is armed.....solely on that basis.   Presumably they wouldn't mind playing with the same person if he didn't have a weapon.  So, unless you're telling me that they're afraid that the gun is somehow going to put them in danger by itself, then yes, the logical inference is that they're afraid that the person himself is the danger, and not responsible.

Not a logical or fair inference at all.

[David in FL]

Not a logical or fair inference at all.

In your opinion.

Not the first time we've disagreed.  Likely won't be the last.  I'm ok with that.

[jusanothajoe]

I ate lunch at a BBQ restaurant last Friday. This restaurant would be considered in a "good" part of town. That restaurant and all the patrons inside were robbed at 8:30 that night. One block from the police station. I have also felt threatened on a golf course, not from other golfers. I have not played that course since, it is 2 blocks from where I work. Bad people don't pick certain places to be bad. They are bad where ever they go. I have never carried on a golf course, but if I ever play that course again ( don't think I will ) I might carry.

[jusanothajoe]

Not a logical or fair inference at all.

Perfectly logical.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Your analogies don't line up, and why are you assuming that choosing not to associate with a guy carrying a gun automatically means that people think he's a nut? That's a ridiculous jump to conclusions.  I don't think a person with a gun is any more likely to be nutty an a person without one.  However, I do believe that if it turns out that the stranger I got paired up with IS a nut, then I'd simply prefer he didn't also carry a gun.

You say you would not get into a car with somebody who was drunk.  Well, no freaking doy.  Neither would anybody on the planet who's not a complete moron.  The better analogy is if you would accept a ride home from a stranger and all you knew about him was that he was at the bar having fun as long as you were.  Maybe he had a lot to drink, maybe not, and (for the sake of the analogy) there is no way to tell.

And just to repeat ... nobody is "inferring" irresponsibility, they're just considering the consequences of said irresponsibility in their decisions.  There is (should be) no shame or ridicule in that.

Because even though they represent less than a 3d of the responses, 27 people have said that they wouldn't even play golf with someone who is armed.....solely on that basis.   Presumably they wouldn't mind playing with the same person if he didn't have a weapon.  So, unless you're telling me that they're afraid that the gun is somehow going to put them in danger by itself, then yes, the logical inference is that they're afraid that the person himself is the danger, and not responsible.

I voted no based on how I phrased the question.  It is because I do not know the person and his abilities or sensibilities.  If I was paired with a guy that was also drinking heavily and obnoxious before we even started, I would also ask for a different group as well.  I'm there to play golf and enjoy my round. I shouldn't have to worry about the 0.001% of legal CCW that may not be responsible.  I shouldn't have to put up with a drunk.

Now if it was someone that I knew or it was Law Enforcement, I would not feel uncomfortable.  If it was someone I knew well, I would ask them why they felt the need to carry on the course.  I have polled all my friends and family who have licenses and all said they would not feel the need to carry on a golf course.

[Gunther]

I voted no based on how I phrased the question.  It is because I do not know the person and his abilities or sensibilities.  If I was paired with a guy that was also drinking heavily and obnoxious before we even started, I would also ask for a different group as well.  I'm there to play golf and enjoy my round. I shouldn't have to worry about the 0.001% of legal CCW that may not be responsible.  I shouldn't have to put up with a drunk.   Now if it was someone that I knew or it was Law Enforcement, I would not feel uncomfortable.  If it was someone I knew well, I would ask them why they felt the need to carry on the course.  I have polled all my friends and family who have licenses and all said they would not feel the need to carry on a golf course.

I would tend to assume a person with a gun is reasonable because I was brought up around them and since childhood have yet to know a gun owner that shouldn't be. But, I voted assess then decide in case I learn that my new partner had just bought the gun yesterday cuz he's been banging a married chick whose Navy Seal husband found out and vowed to kill him. In those circumstances, I'm gonna find another group in which to play.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

I don't think that's the case.  You may be putting words in some posters mouth here.   I think people worry about a few who don't know how to handle their gun, like the guy who flashed his gun on a golf course.   Stat wise, most gun owners are responsible regular folks.   As for me, I don't know how to tell from a bad gun owner to responsible ones.  Hence, I will opt not to play with golfers who bring guns to the course.

But will you get in a car with a guy driving that's had a few beers?  How do you tell the good drunk drivers from the bad ones?

That's not a good analogy, newtogolf.  What is this got to do with the OT?   Comparing gun with driving under influence?   You can come up with thousand more analogies that way, e.g, would you get into an elevator with one wearing a tattoo?      What are you trying to say or are you just being argumentative at this point?   This is a simple pole with people explaining why they voted in certain way.   Let's not turn this into a gun control/right discussions if that's where you are heading to.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I voted no based on how I phrased the question.  It is because I do not know the person and his abilities or sensibilities.  If I was paired with a guy that was also drinking heavily and obnoxious before we even started, I would also ask for a different group as well.  I'm there to play golf and enjoy my round. I shouldn't have to worry about the 0.001% of legal CCW that may not be responsible.  I shouldn't have to put up with a drunk.

Now if it was someone that I knew or it was Law Enforcement, I would not feel uncomfortable.  If it was someone I knew well, I would ask them why they felt the need to carry on the course.  I have polled all my friends and family who have licenses and all said they would not feel the need to carry on a golf course.

I would tend to assume a person with a gun is reasonable because I was brought up around them and since childhood have yet to know a gun owner that shouldn't be.

But, I voted assess then decide in case I learn that my new partner had just bought the gun yesterday cuz he's been banging a married chick whose Navy Seal husband found out and vowed to kill him. In those circumstances, I'm gonna find another group in which to play.

I grew up around guns and would tend to agree in most cases. Again, all my family and friends that are responsible owners would not make me uncomfortable.  But I have also known people in HS and college that are gun owners and I would not call them completely responsible.  They are the type that would make me uncomfortable to play with.

[David in FL]

I grew up around guns and would tend to agree in most cases. Again, all my family and friends that are responsible owners would not make me uncomfortable.  But I have also known people in HS and college that are gun owners and I would not call them completely responsible.  They are the type that would make me uncomfortable to play with.

In your own poll scenario, what, other than the gun itself, is there to make you so concerned that you refuse to play golf with the individual? Given your comments, I would have expected that you would have further evaluated the individual, rather than refusing to play out of hand. Again, your scenario and poll options....