Donald Trump for president?

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop

Can't believe I'm about to comment on this thread, but here goes.

I'm a disillusioned social progressive moderate. Label me what you will, but I think my core beliefs are pretty mainstream. I tend to identify with moderate aspects of both parties.

That said, Trump speaks to me in a couple of ways. For one, I'm absolutely sick of DC's complete political ineffectiveness. Obama isn't a bad president, nor was Bush. However neither have solved the major social issues. Due to the partisan nature of electoral politics, no partisan could or can.

That's Don's appeal. I don't know if his schtick is a strategy, if it is I don't know if it would work, and I certainly haven't decided to vote for him. But what I can say for certain is this: no one is else in the discussion will be any different than what hasn't worked for the last 15 years. American politics needs a game changer, and it needs to bottom out. Trump may be the bottom. He is essentially "none of the above" (for those of you old enough to have seen that movie).

I agree, most people I speak to don't like Trump for who he is, most think he's a jerk. They are just tired of career politicians and want someone who isn't one and has the guts to challenge the way this country has been run for the last 15 years.

I'll agree that as much of an arrogant jerk that Trump is, he is making the political class look small and unimpressive. I never thought I'd see a day where Ted Cruz seems like the sensible, judicious, moderate choice.

Forgetting policy and other critical matters about how we should decide this election, the Republican candidates in his shadow look meek and ineffective when compared to his dynamism. The mood seems to be for many that they want someone who will just smash the place up. People seem to think that hey if the system is broken, let's just take a sledgehammer to it all and see what we can salvage from it.

Do we really want someone who will rattle things up like this? As an example, check out how he eviscerates Huma Abadin's husband, Anthony Weiner. I don't think I've ever seen a phenomenon like this in politics. Who talks so freely like this? No politician I've ever seen. This is stuff we secretly think, but we are afraid to openly say about someone married to Weiner (it feels un-PC).

Only Trump (of all candidates from both parties) appears to be invigorated and on the offense.  This will either end really really well (for who? I'm not sure)..... or be a complete and utter disaster. Doubt anything in between.

[Gator Hazard]

I understand the sentiment but a business leader who is so used to running things as an absolute dictator won't translate well into POTUS.  POTUS is not that kind of position.   It it is, I am sure most past POTUSes would have gotten a lot more done, for good or for worse.    Also, one can't overlook the person's underlying personality that will be reflected doing his job.   He's a known narcissist to extreme, and business man with his own empire.  He will do what benefits him & his ego, not for the USA.  Anyone who thinks he cares about illegal immigration is fooling himself.   All he is doing is latching onto an issue that would given him high marks among the Reps.   Given that his fact digestion & interpretation is a suspect, decision making & behavior pattern that equals a 13 year old brat, people must look past the sentiment.

Tweeting against Megyan at 3:00 am is a stuff that we see from a troll.  And what did Megyan do to deserve that?  She asked a tough question on Trump's past behavior against woman, a question that would have been asked even if it is not Trump.   As a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Trump can't take rejection (or what he perceives as rejection).  Rejection leads to anger and an NPD can't control that.  As a POTUS, many will speak against him and his policy.   What's he gonna do in those cases?   Say, if Putin makes fun of him and he's not into SNS.  Trump is gonna bomb Puitan's palace?    I am exaggerating here to make a point.   Trump = NPD.   But if the Reps are willing to nominate him for POTUS, they deserve Trump.

We already have a narcissist in the oval office as is.  Just saying.  However, I will say that anyone who is going to put themselves in the position to be president has to have a high sense of self to begin with, just going to be a personality trait that goes with the job.  Trump's narcissism trumps all of theirs however, he is a spoiled little rich kid who never heard the words no.

[Elmer]

We already have a narcissist in the oval office as is.  Just saying.  However, I will say that anyone who is going to put themselves in the position to be president has to have a high sense of self to begin with, just going to be a personality trait that goes with the job.  Trump's narcissism trumps all of theirs however, he is a spoiled little rich kid who never heard the words no.

Name me one modern day President who was not a narcissist?

Heck GWB was on selected by G*d to be president!

But I agree that there is no bigger narcissist than Trump. And I agree he has never heard no. How ever my fear is that if her were elected POTUS he would not accept "NO".

I could see him being unethical and Unscrupulous all in the name of getting his agenda is accomplished.

[k-troop]

Name me one modern day President who was not a narcissist?

Heck GWB was on selected by G*d to be president!

But I agree that there is no bigger narcissist than Trump. And I agree he has never heard no. How ever my fear is that if her were elected POTUS he would not accept "NO".

I could see him being unethical and Unscrupulous all in the name of getting his agenda is accomplished.

How so?  He's not going to start executing congressmen or Generals who defy his wishes.  He probably would ignore separation of powers roadblocks in order to get things done.

And really, so what?  My biggest gripe about our government lately is that it's so ineffective.  It took three shutdown crises to get us to sequestration, which was supposed to be a short-term fix to buy space for a negotiated budget solution.  Guess what?  It's still in effect four years later.  The Affordable Care Act is a disaster, and it has nothing to do with whether you agree with government funded health care for all Americans.  High school economics students know that you can't mandate universal consumption of a product (insurance) without also fixing the price.  We can't even do simple things, like shut down GTMO or standardize airport security measures.

Much of what Obama has done in the last 7 years he has done more-or-less unilaterally and arguably illegally.  The Bergdahl swap was probably illegal.  (Again, you can disagree with the bargain but I doubt anyone disagrees that every US Soldier in enemy captivity needs to be repatriated.)  He intervened in Libya without seeking Congressional approval.  He has implemented limited domestic policy through EOs.  Bush was the same.  Enhanced interrogation, NSA spying on Americans, etc.

I'm open to talking about policy and platforms, but those are irrelevant if you can't get anything done.  I'm not sure whether Don would get things done, but I know that the slate of "politicians" won't be any more effective than their predecessors.  I fully expect Trump to do basically whatever he wants.  If he does, and is effective, at least then we can start talking about the real impact of programs and policies, rather than watch speeches about issues we can't affect or debate changing the name of a mountain, because that is literally the extent of our power.

[Gator Hazard]

Name me one modern day President who was not a narcissist?

Heck GWB was on selected by G*d to be president!

But I agree that there is no bigger narcissist than Trump. And I agree he has never heard no. How ever my fear is that if her were elected POTUS he would not accept "NO".

I could see him being unethical and Unscrupulous all in the name of getting his agenda is accomplished.

Agreed, that's why I said its a personality trait.  Nah, Obama still holds the title.  I remember the media just gushing over him, he was "The One", he was the anointed one.  He gave Chris Mathews a tingle down his leg and one guy described him as "wise, like Spock".  I thought that was funny.  If anyone has ever been given the title of "The Chosen One" it's Obama not Dubya (trust me I am not a Bush fan either).  I think I may be too grouchy for politics in general, there are not many who do satisfy me.

Completely agree that he would be unethical and unscrupulous, just like Obama, GWB, and Clinton.  Again, personality traits.  The only thing going for Trump is that he is so used to buying and selling politicians and already has amassed so much wealth that he may actually play it straight as far as that goes.  Harder to buy and sell someone whose net worth is worth more than those trying to do it.  But I still never, ever, ever would vote for him for president.

[rkim291968]

Completely agree that he would be unethical and unscrupulous, just like Obama, GWB, and Clinton.  Again, personality traits.  The only thing going for Trump is that he is so used to buying and selling politicians and already has amassed so much wealth that he may actually play it straight as far as that goes.  Harder to buy and sell someone whose net worth is worth more than those trying to do it.  But I still never, ever, ever would vote for him for president.

Agreed that most POTUS were and has to be narcissistic in nature.  CNN interviewed NPD experts a few weeks ago and they said a similar thing - i.e, being narcissist isn't necessarily a bad thing.   Almost all of us are narcissistic to varying degrees.  It is a required trait to be successful.   But it shouldn't go beyond being "sick" and I think Trump is way beyond it based on what I see.

My comment on your bold above - his having money is a two edge sword.  If he does not get his way as POTUS, he is likely to use his money, legally or illegally, to accomplish things.   That may be a good thing if Trump has shown sound judgment so far.    He hasn't.   Vast majority of what he claimed or plan to do when he is POTUS borders on being stupid.   Not good.

[Gator Hazard]

Agreed that most POTUS were and has to be narcissistic in nature.  CNN interviewed NPD experts a few weeks ago and they said a similar thing - i.e, being narcissist isn't necessarily a bad thing.   Almost all of us are narcissistic to varying degrees.  It is a required trait to be successful.   But it shouldn't go beyond being "sick" and I think Trump is way beyond it based on what I see.

My comment on your bold above - his having money is a two edge sword.  If he does not get his way as POTUS, he is likely to use his money, legally or illegally, to accomplish things.   That may be a good thing if Trump has shown sound judgment so far.    He hasn't.   Vast majority of what he claimed or plan to do when he is POTUS borders on being stupid.   Not good.

Yup.  I was also thinking that there are people who no matter how much money and power they have, it is never enough so for all I know Trump is about as sane as an agent of SPECTRE with global domination on the brain.

[Elmer]

Agreed, that's why I said its a personality trait.  Nah, Obama still holds the title.  I remember the media just gushing over him, he was "The One", he was the anointed one.  He gave Chris Mathews a tingle down his leg and one guy described him as "wise, like Spock".  I thought that was funny.  If anyone has ever been given the title of "The Chosen One" it's Obama not Dubya (trust me I am not a Bush fan either).  I think I may be too grouchy for politics in general, there are not many who do satisfy me.

Completely agree that he would be unethical and unscrupulous, just like Obama, GWB, and Clinton.  Again, personality traits.  The only thing going for Trump is that he is so used to buying and selling politicians and already has amassed so much wealth that he may actually play it straight as far as that goes.  Harder to buy and sell someone whose net worth is worth more than those trying to do it.  But I still never, ever, ever would vote for him for president.

Agreed that most POTUS were and has to be narcissistic in nature.  CNN interviewed NPD experts a few weeks ago and they said a similar thing - i.e, being narcissist isn't necessarily a bad thing.   Almost all of us are narcissistic to varying degrees.  It is a required trait to be successful.   But it shouldn't go beyond being "sick" and I think Trump is way beyond it based on what I see.

My comment on your bold above - his having money is a two edge sword.  If he does not get his way as POTUS, he is likely to use his money, legally or illegally, to accomplish things.   That may be a good thing if Trump has shown sound judgment so far.    He hasn't.   Vast majority of what he claimed or plan to do when he is POTUS borders on being stupid.   Not good.

one of my fears is that he would make directives and decision that would benefit his own economic interest.

kind of like the haliburton ordeal.

I have said it before -Trump national at Yosemite!!!!!

[rkim291968]

Imagine Trump minus his stupid one liner policy statements, and outrageous behaviors.   Just straight talks.  No twittering 3:00 am to attack someone like Kelly.   Heck, even I would support Trump's POTUS bid.    BTW,  I loved Perot when he came onto scene.   He had money and some ideas to run for POTUS.   But the comparison between Perot and Trump stops there.

[newtogolf]

How so?  He's not going to start executing congressmen or Generals who defy his wishes.  He probably would ignore separation of powers roadblocks in order to get things done.

And really, so what?  My biggest gripe about our government lately is that it's so ineffective.  It took three shutdown crises to get us to sequestration, which was supposed to be a short-term fix to buy space for a negotiated budget solution.  Guess what?  It's still in effect four years later.  The Affordable Care Act is a disaster, and it has nothing to do with whether you agree with government funded health care for all Americans.  High school economics students know that you can't mandate universal consumption of a product (insurance) without also fixing the price.  We can't even do simple things, like shut down GTMO or standardize airport security measures.

Much of what Obama has done in the last 7 years he has done more-or-less unilaterally and arguably illegally.  The Bergdahl swap was probably illegal.  (Again, you can disagree with the bargain but I doubt anyone disagrees that every US Soldier in enemy captivity needs to be repatriated.)  He intervened in Libya without seeking Congressional approval.  He has implemented limited domestic policy through EOs.  Bush was the same.  Enhanced interrogation, NSA spying on Americans, etc.

I'm open to talking about policy and platforms, but those are irrelevant if you can't get anything done.  I'm not sure whether Don would get things done, but I know that the slate of "politicians" won't be any more effective than their predecessors.  I fully expect Trump to do basically whatever he wants.  If he does, and is effective, at least then we can start talking about the real impact of programs and policies, rather than watch speeches about issues we can't affect or debate changing the name of a mountain, because that is literally the extent of our power.

I agree 100%, we've allowed the media to cloud the real issues with stupid headlines and tangent stories that divert the attention away from the mess both sides have made of this country.  I like Carson and Trump because they want to implement term limits on all politicians, this would be a great start to ridding the country of the corruption we're seeing today.

[rkim291968]

Would love to see one term but longer limit, say a 6 year Senator term limit.   That will remove the need to spend most of their time on being reelected, and give more time to accomplish something.   Chance of that happening regardless of who is the POTUS is very remote.

A big problem we have ... most constituents like their reps and keep reelecting them despite the universal hate for our congress & senate as a whole.   People love Trump b/c he is not a career politician but we keep voting the career politicians in for our district.    Shame on us.

[Elmer]

I agree 100%, we've allowed the media to cloud the real issues with stupid headlines and tangent stories that divert the attention away from the mess both sides have made of this country.  I like Carson and Trump because they want to implement term limits on all politicians, this would be a great start to ridding the country of the corruption we're seeing today.

How does Trump plan to get elected politicians to vote on term limits?

Will he end up using an executive order like the current dictator?

[Gator Hazard]

Would love to see one term but longer limit, say a 6 year Senator term limit.   That will remove the need to spend most of their time on being reelected, and give more time to accomplish something.   Chance of that happening regardless of who is the POTUS is very remote.

A big problem we have ... most constituents like their reps and keep reelecting them despite the universal hate for our congress & senate as a whole.   People love Trump b/c he is not a career politician but we keep voting the career politicians in for our district.    Shame on us.

You may have meant for members of the House of Reps (two years), US Senators terms are six years.  I agree, how do you expect a congressman to focus on something other than his own political survival if his/her term is only 2 years.  You legislate for about 8 months and campaign and raise funds the rest of your term.  And I will reiterate public funds for major campaigning only.  Level the playing field so that more people who are qualified have a chance.  This stuff with Hillary strong arming Biden into not running is corruption from being too powerful in politics for too long.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

Would love to see one term but longer limit, say a 6 year Senator term limit.   That will remove the need to spend most of their time on being reelected, and give more time to accomplish something.   Chance of that happening regardless of who is the POTUS is very remote.

A big problem we have ... most constituents like their reps and keep reelecting them despite the universal hate for our congress & senate as a whole.   People love Trump b/c he is not a career politician but we keep voting the career politicians in for our district.    Shame on us.

You may have meant for members of the House of Reps (two years), US Senators terms are six years.  I agree, how do you expect a congressman to focus on something other than his own political survival if his/her term is only 2 years.  You legislate for about 8 months and campaign and raise funds the rest of your term.  And I will reiterate public funds for major campaigning only.  Level the playing field so that more people who are qualified have a chance.  This stuff with Hillary strong arming Biden into not running is corruption from being too powerful in politics for too long.

I meant to say one term limit (emphasis on one) of 6 years (can be 4 or 8, not so sure) for both Congress & Senate seats.   After that, they need to look for another job, and come back for 2nd run 6 years later if he/she chooses.    Even for POTUS, it can be a one term limit job.  China has one term limit of 10 years (I think).   Korea has one term limit of 5 years.

And don't get me started on gerrymandering .    Is Trump in favor or against?

[StefanUrkel]

The most comical part of politics is how partisan and pathetic most people are.  Its like republican and democrat are their favorite sports teams.  Does anyone think that republicans wouldn't have a different opinion on the email thing with Hillary if she were a republican.  And vice-versa.  Obama and Bush are basically the same person.  Both support big government, both support little civil liberties.  Both are anti-transparency, etc.  Both support the federal reserve.  If Obama were president during 9/11, I'm pretty sure he would have done what the public demanded he do.  He is a politician and has no real thoughts.  And if you look at the poll numbers, Obama is loved by black people no matter what.  And Bush is loved by republicans.  Most people couldn't even tell you their positions on most things. Just shows everything is about optics or marketing.

[newtogolf]

The most comical part of politics is how partisan and pathetic most people are.  Its like republican and democrat are their favorite sports teams.  Does anyone think that republicans wouldn't have a different opinion on the email thing with Hillary if she were a republican.  And vice-versa.  Obama and Bush are basically the same person.  Both support big government, both support little civil liberties.  Both are anti-transparency, etc.  Both support the federal reserve.  If Obama were president during 9/11, I'm pretty sure he would have done what the public demanded he do.  He is a politician and has no real thoughts.  And if you look at the poll numbers, Obama is loved by black people no matter what.  And Bush is loved by republicans.  Most people couldn't even tell you their positions on most things. Just shows everything is about optics or marketing.

Not exactly true, informed voters see the differences.  I'm a republican only because I'm a fiscal conservative (social moderate) and at this point the financial state of the country is a greater concern for me.  I hated GW, in fact, until Obama I considered GW the worst POTUS of my lifetime.  I'm not a homer, if a democrat was running with the fiscal policies of a conservative I'd vote for them.

Dr. Ben Carson is African American, I doubt he'll be as well received as Obama regardless of his skin color.

[Gator Hazard]

Not exactly true, informed voters see the differences.  I'm a republican only because I'm a fiscal conservative (social moderate) and at this point the financial state of the country is a greater concern for me.  I hated GW, in fact, until Obama I considered GW the worst POTUS of my lifetime.  I'm not a homer, if a democrat was running with the fiscal policies of a conservative I'd vote for them.

Dr. Ben Carson is African American, I doubt he'll be as well received as Obama regardless of his skin color.

^^^This pretty much.

I don't think GW was a good president, I think he was average.  I don't think BO is a good president either, he may be average.  I completely agree that we tend to make bigger issues out of things that will not destroy our country from within (social issues) as opposed to dealing with the dangers which are fiscal and monetary, the policies that help or hurt us domestically and in a global economy.  To me its like we are sitting in the living room arguing about what vegetables should go in the refrigerator and which should go on the counter while completely disregarding that the house is on fire and the kitchen is filling up with smoke.  Like you, I am a registered republican who can, has and does vote democrat when that is in my opinion the best candidate.  I have also voted for third party candidates based on principle alone.  I wish more people would do that to the point third party candidates win more often or at least garner enough votes to scare the crap out of both parties and get them to act and do right.  I personally think we did the country a huge disservice when we voted for a president based more on social justice than on what the country needed.  Love him or hate him, McCain was respected across the aisle, he was known for upsetting his own party as much as the other, and he understood that in order for the country to move ahead it would mean truly working with the other party to get legislation passed.  Obama came in, sat down and told republicans "we won, you lost, you have to sit in the back of the bus" and then whines when he doesn't get republican support.  Gee, I wonder why.  Republicans are equally to blame for this, Newt Gingrich was probably the worst thing that happened to the republican party, between him and Reid we wound up with hyper polarized political parties who were more interested in shoving a complete agenda down the oppositions throat or doing anything and everything to stop good legislation from becoming laws unless they could as a party take credit for it.

And lastly to stay on topic:  nana nana boo boo, Trumps campaign smells like doo doo.

[saevel25]

^^^This pretty much.

I don't think GW was a good president, I think he was average.  I don't think BO is a good president either, he may be average.  I completely agree that we tend to make bigger issues out of things that will not destroy our country from within (social issues) as opposed to dealing with the dangers which are fiscal and monetary, the policies that help or hurt us domestically and in a global economy.

I think GW did an OK job for the hand he was dealt. No president want's t have to deal with terrorist attacks and such. Clinton had it pretty easy when you look back at how little to nothing really happened in the mid to late 90's. No one could foresee the housing crisis caused by the poor policy by Clinton to actually put into place federal review over the subsidized loans that allowed people to get homes they couldn't afford.

I think BO underachieved greatly. I think he's a horrible leader. I hate how he helped force the health care bill through for the sake of just passing it instead of actually passing meaningful legislation that could actually lower prices. All the health care bill really is is throwing money at the issue and hoping it appeases the public. Oh hey, here's another badly written social program that we can now go out and say republicans want to take away your health care the next time we are getting re-elected.

In the end he cared more about his image than he did about the country. I heard a story once that he actually invited college professors over to talk about where he stands with his legacy compared to other presidents.