Donald Trump for president?

[rkim291968]

Of all those on the debate stage, Carson seems the least presidential.     Brilliant surgeon, probably the smartest of the bunch, but I just don't see him beating Hillary.  

 

For that matter, I don't see anyone beating Hillary, including Trump.   Rep candidates are trying to outdo each other on how conservative they are.   Trump's rhetoric on illegal immigration, women, Hispanic is, IMO, hurting the chance for any Rep to win the general election.    The only candidates who may beat Hillary in the general elections are far behind Carson & Trump in polls, and/or they are too conservative to garner enough American votes to beat the DEM political machine.  

I thought the Reps learned a lesson 4 years ago about changing demographics, etc.. But when Trump came into the picture, whatever plan the Reps had went out the door.  

 

[inthehole]

 

For that matter, I don't see anyone beating Hillary, including Trump.   Rep candidates are trying to outdo each other on how conservative they are.   Trump's rhetoric on illegal immigration, women, Hispanic is, IMO, hurting the chance for any Rep to win the general election.    The only candidates who may beat Hillary in the general elections are far behind Carson & Trump in polls, and/or they are too conservative to garner enough American votes to beat the DEM political machine.  

I thought the Reps learned a lesson 4 years ago about changing demographics, etc.. But when Trump came into the picture, whatever plan the Reps had went out the door.  

 

I hear you ... it's hard to compromise and give up your beliefs though.   I've said it before, things have changed so much in this country and democratic policies haven't negatively impacted citizens at large enough yet to force change - I don't see a conservative being elected president ... a republican, maybe (but even thats a longshot in todays society), but not a true conservative.    Conservatives unfortunately just don't have the horses anymore to get it done ... so it's time to accept it and get ready for another President Clinton (I'll be wearing out the mute button on my TV remote control - her voice and delivery makes my skin absolutely crawl)

[boogielicious]

I hear you ... it's hard to compromise and give up your beliefs though.   I've said it before, things have changed so much in this country, I don't ever see a conservative being elected president ... a republican, maybe (but even thats a longshot in todays society), but not a conservative.    Conservatives unfortunately just don't have the horses anymore ...

Depends on what you define as conservative. Fiscal conservatives will always have a chance. Economics can drive Presidential elections. They can be moderate when it comes to social issues. I am all for moderates from both parties having chances. It is the extremes from both parties that are dividing us now.

[rkim291968]

Depends on what you define as conservative. Fiscal conservatives will always have a chance. Economics can drive Presidential elections. They can be moderate when it comes to social issues. I am all for moderates from both parties having chances. It is the extremes from both parties that are dividing us now.

I was thinking "conservative" in broad term.  Even if we narrow it down to fiscal conservative, they have to get past the Rep nomination process.   Currently, the process is running on emotion (anger against illegal immigration, political establishment) right now. 

One thing about Trump that I must hand it to him.   He gets his ways - like making CNBC stick to a 2 hour debate format.  Unfortunately, running a country is different than forcing CNBC to stick to its 2 hour format instead of running 60 minutes extra.  

[snow bird]

I think Trump painted himself into a corner with the immigration stance which he has doubled down on. I think he used in the beginning to get attention and gain quick support from those who are too short sighted to see that such a plan would be a total disaster for this country. 

[rkim291968]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/11/13/drive_bys_think_trump_s_iowa_tirade_is_the_end_again

 

Rush Limbaugh's take on Trump's 90 minute tirade in Iowa yesterday, calling Iowans stupid for falling for Carson among other equally damaging statements.   

[Kenny Lee]

13 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Rush Limbaugh's take on Trump's 90 minute tirade in Iowa yesterday, calling Iowans stupid for falling for Carson among other equally damaging statements.   

Trump is done. I think we all knew this day was coming, right?

I never considered Trump a serious candidate anyway. I don't think he ever wanted the job. He was just having fun being Donald Trump.

He'll surely take a few others down with him. For sure.

[rkim291968]

47 minutes ago, Kenny Lee said:

Trump is done. I think we all knew this day was coming, right?

I never considered Trump a serious candidate anyway. I don't think he ever wanted the job. He was just having fun being Donald Trump.

He'll surely take a few others down with him. For sure.

Right.  Most of us never thought he'd win the nomination but he kept climbing on the polls despite saying outlandish and stupid things.  Why is this time different?   All these times, Trump limited his attacks to everyone but the the voters.   He has crossed that line.   He went after the voters themselves - hi, my name is Trump, I am fabulously rich, and if you don't vote for me, you are stupid.   That is not a sound campaign slogan.   He will still carry the die hard Trump supporters but very few others will support him.  

 

Voting blocs Trump has offended so far: women, Hispanics, Blacks, and now Iowans. 

[Kenny Lee]

27 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Voting blocs Trump has offended so far: women, Hispanics, Blacks, and now Iowans. 

Clearly he has some more work to do. Get the popcorn.

[RandallT]

One of the lines Trump is using against Carson is that Carson is "pathological," and that when you are pathological, it is incurable. 

Bad call. He just stumbled right into Carson's wheelhouse: medicine. Pathological does NOT mean incurable. Pathological simply means associated with a disease (pathology), and it has nothing to do with that condition being curable or incurable.

Carson says his anger issues were part of a deep problem (not sure he agrees "pathological"), but that he has left that part of him behind- or cured. He is very clear about that.

Carson could bury Trump with this, but I'm not clear if he's letting Trump off the hook on it. Part of me thinks Carson will take the high road.

Trump was careless with the word, and clearly (and incorrectly) conveyed that pathological was synonymous with incurable (and even compared to child molestation). While the whole rant was mean-spirited, it was mainly ignorant of the medical meaning of the word, making him look rather like a jack-ass for using a technical term on the one guy in the presidential field (Dr Carson) who can authoritatively call BS on it.

[rkim291968]

2 minutes ago, RandallT said:

One of the lines Trump is using against Carson is that Carson is "pathological," and that when you are pathological, it is incurable.

 

Ironic.  Narcissistic Personality Disorder which I am sure Trump has is the hardest of personality disorders to overcome based on PD studies.   NCD can't help themselves, evidenced by the 90 min tirade.  I don't think he meant to go into a tirade when he stepped up to the podium.  I am guessing that an NCD trait (a need to attack those who rejected him - Iowan voters in this case) came out and took over his speech. 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, RandallT said:

One of the lines Trump is using against Carson is that Carson is "pathological," and that when you are pathological, it is incurable. 

Bad call. He just stumbled right into Carson's wheelhouse: medicine. Pathological does NOT mean incurable. Pathological simply means associated with a disease (pathology), and it has nothing to do with that condition being curable or incurable.

Carson says his anger issues were part of a deep problem (not sure he agrees "pathological"), but that he has left that part of him behind- or cured. He is very clear about that.

Carson could bury Trump with this, but I'm not clear if he's letting Trump off the hook on it. Part of me thinks Carson will take the high road.

Trump was careless with the word, and clearly (and incorrectly) conveyed that pathological was synonymous with incurable (and even compared to child molestation). While the whole rant was mean-spirited, it was mainly ignorant of the medical meaning of the word, making him look rather like a jack-ass for using a technical term on the one guy in the presidential field (Dr Carson) who can authoritatively call BS on it.

Do you honestly think any of that matters to most voters?

Yes, you and I and others will know that's a stupid thing to say. But voters don't care, generally speaking.

Agree? Disagree?

[dkolo]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Do you honestly think any of that matters to most voters?

Yes, you and I and others will know that's a stupid thing to say. But voters don't care, generally speaking.

Agree? Disagree?

Right now, we're in a bizarro world where a presidential candidate is trying to convince the world that "Hey! I stabbed a guy and whacked my mom with a hammer!" and the media and public are trying to ignore it. It's a topsy-turvy world we're living in. 

[acerimusdux]

I don't really see where the latest tirade from Trump is really much different from the previous 90 tirades from Trump. And I don't even see where he was much wrong, either.

On the transcript from Limbaugh's site, the very first words quoted from Trump are "Pathological is a very serious disease. And he said he's pathological." So he was exactly right about the meaning of pathological. But some diseases are curable, while others are not. What Trump said is that there is no cure for "a pathological temper or temperament".

That said, neither Trump nor Carson really seems electable to me in a general election. But it's still very early. The guy who has been rising recently, who seems interesting, is Rubio. I think he might have a shot against Hillary. 

I think as we get closer to an actual election, maybe people will start to realize that nominating a candidate with no political experience whatsoever maybe isn't such a hot idea, after all. Rubio may end up being one of the only ones left standing who actually has some political skills, which will matter once voters start worrying more about who can actually win. 

Also, the religious right may have to come to terms with the fact that an evolution denying fundamentalist doesn't really play well on the national stage, either. Trump nonetheless will remain unacceptable to that wing. Rubio, a conservative Catholic, might be the best compromise. 

All Rubio really would have to do is sharpen his economic message with a little more populist appeal, and he would have a shot. 

[RandallT]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

Do you honestly think any of that matters to most voters?

Yes, you and I and others will know that's a stupid thing to say. But voters don't care, generally speaking.

Agree? Disagree?

I actually agree with you. But I do need a sad reminder from time to time that most don't really care or aren't really paying too much attention to all of this.

6 hours ago, acerimusdux said:

I don't really see where the latest tirade from Trump is really much different from the previous 90 tirades from Trump. And I don't even see where he was much wrong, either.

On the transcript from Limbaugh's site, the very first words quoted from Trump are "Pathological is a very serious disease. And he said he's pathological." So he was exactly right about the meaning of pathological. But some diseases are curable, while others are not. What Trump said is that there is no cure for "a pathological temper or temperament".

I actually agree that this "tirade" wasn't too far different than his typical speech. I think it might've been his delivery that struck me. If you listen to the way he spoke, it was slightly different this time. In the way that Howard Dean made that strange campaign utterance many years ago. Trump seemed a bit off to me, but it doesn't come through too much in the actual quote.

The quote I was referring to was: 

"“It’s in the book that he’s got a pathological temper....[riff about child molestation]....There’s no cure for it. Pathological, there’s no cure for that.”

I took that to mean that he thinks pathological means incurable. I could be wrong. Maybe he was actually saying that a "pathological temper" is incurable. I don't know. Either way, it seems an odd thing to say. Is there medical proof that pathological temper is incurable? I just thought Trump was vulnerable to a medical rebuttal after hearing him use the words "pathological" and "cure" (very medical terms), and Carson could certainly be the right guy to deliver it. If Carson wanted to, I thought he could pick apart that quote and make Trump look a bit out of his depth.

 

[Mr. Desmond]

It appears Trump is on the rise, and Carson is done -- stick a fork in him.

Comparing Syrian refugees to rabid dogs...

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-syria-refugee-dogs-216064?via=newsletter&source=CSPMedition

Edited November 19, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[rkim291968]

18 hours ago, Mr. Desmond said:

It appears Trump is on the rise, and Carson is done -- stick a fork in him.

Comparing Syrian refugees to rabid dogs...

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-syria-refugee-dogs-216064?via=newsletter&source=CSPMedition

Nah .... the more Trump & Carson say outrageous things, the more die hard supporters they attract.   Carson will end up getting more contributions as a result of the above. 

It was refreshing to not see Trump on the news media as they were busy covering the terrorist attacks.  

[chspeed]

18 hours ago, Mr. Desmond said:

It appears Trump is on the rise, and Carson is done -- stick a fork in him.

Comparing Syrian refugees to rabid dogs...

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-syria-refugee-dogs-216064?via=newsletter&source=CSPMedition

Trump is even more outrageous now.

Says that all Muslims should register, even US citizens.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/donald-trump-doubles-down-on-registering-muslims/416973/

7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Nah .... the more Trump & Carson say outrageous things, the more die hard supporters they attract.   Carson will end up getting more contributions as a result of the above.

Bingo. Trump popularity taking a big leap.