Donald Trump for president?

[saevel25]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-trump-supporters-were-doing-before-trump/

A bit more on Trumps supporters.

Quote

Do Trump supporters stand out for their levels of prejudice or their concerns about unauthorized immigration? Yes. But those are not their only defining features. They are also more pro-choice than other Republican primary voters. And their economic populism seems to be focused on trade and not on government spending. Down the road, we may well view the 2016 election as an aberration. But Trump’s rise is more than a celebrity trading on his publicity. One of the key ingredients of a political realignment — a split within one party on a durable, straightforward set of issues — is now in place.

 

[Braivo]

25 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-trump-supporters-were-doing-before-trump/

A bit more on Trumps supporters.

 

Basically he is pulling the GOP to the left on a few key issues. He is certainly not a social conservative, hence the strong support for Cruz among evangelicals. 

[Dave2512]

Most of those social issues only exist to be contrary to the left. It's a way to pander to the base during election years only to be ignored most any other time. Should be an eye opener but it won't be. So far the establishment objections to Trump has only been to point out how much they aren't like him.  He'll either win the nomination or fade and they will continue their usual tired programming.

[saevel25]

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/03/14/3759863/trump-supporters-attack/

It is clearly a hate crime. In the end Trump doesn't denounce this sort of violence he actually accepts it and promotes it. He is quoted as egging on his voters to punch protesters in the face. 

I agree with my dad on this. Civil disobedience is a right of a US Citizen if it is PEACEFUL. This promoting of violent acts is the least presidential and American thing Trump has done so far. He wants to make America great again?

Trump should have supported legal immigrants and not have generalized a message of hate against anyone who is not white. There is no reason to go after this immigration issue like this. It's just a blatant voter grab that will probably cost him any hope of getting a minority vote. Heck, people might just vote Hillary to spite him. Trump's message has been, I like minorities as long as they work for me. Right now he's sounding like a southern plantation owner who's OK with blacks because they work him but if you protest against it he would be at the head of a lynching party. 

I know a handful of republicans who are not going to vote at all. My dad has a few friends who will just abstain from voting. As they put it, they don't want their name associated with backing Trump, Hillary or Sanders.

Edited March 15, 2016 by iacas
removed really unnecessary returns at the end of the post

[saevel25]

Trump admits all he knows is what is on the internet.

 

 

[newtogolf]

10 hours ago, saevel25 said:

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/03/14/3759863/trump-supporters-attack/

It is clearly a hate crime. In the end Trump doesn't denounce this sort of violence he actually accepts it and promotes it. He is quoted as egging on his voters to punch protesters in the face. 

I agree with my dad on this. Civil disobedience is a right of a US Citizen if it is PEACEFUL. This promoting of violent acts is the least presidential and American thing Trump has done so far. He wants to make America great again?

Trump should have supported legal immigrants and not have generalized a message of hate against anyone who is not white. There is no reason to go after this immigration issue like this. It's just a blatant voter grab that will probably cost him any hope of getting a minority vote. Heck, people might just vote Hillary to spite him. Trump's message has been, I like minorities as long as they work for me. Right now he's sounding like a southern plantation owner who's OK with blacks because they work him but if you protest against it he would be at the head of a lynching party. 

I know a handful of republicans who are not going to vote at all. My dad has a few friends who will just abstain from voting. As they put it, they don't want their name associated with backing Trump, Hillary or Sanders.

A bit dramatic don't you think.  The people he's spoken negatively about are either here illegally or represent potential terrorists.  I have no problem with Mexicans or Muslims coming to this country as long as they do it legally and are vetted to ensure they do not have ties to ISIS.  

As for the protests, it's a 2 way street.  Trump and any politician has the right to hold a political rally without fear for his life or those of his supporters.  Where is your outrage of how BLM handled Chicago?  Do you condone their actions?  When the current POTUS and elected officials refuse to call for the arrest of members of BLM when their protests turn violent they are condoning violence as well.  

You guys keep talking about all these Republicans that won't vote for Trump yet everyone I know is on the Trump bus.  I'm still holding out hope for Cruz but if Trump takes Florida and Ohio I don't think anyone will stop Trump and no one will sit idly by and watch Hillary get elected.  

[boogielicious]

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

A bit dramatic don't you think.  The people he's spoken negatively about are either here illegally or represent potential terrorists.  I have no problem with Mexicans or Muslims coming to this country as long as they do it legally and are vetted to ensure they do not have ties to ISIS.  

As for the protests, it's a 2 way street.  Trump and any politician has the right to hold a political rally without fear for his life or those of his supporters.  Where is your outrage of how BLM handled Chicago?  Do you condone their actions?  When the current POTUS and elected officials refuse to call for the arrest of members of BLM when their protests turn violent they are condoning violence as well.  

You guys keep talking about all these Republicans that won't vote for Trump yet everyone I know is on the Trump bus.  I'm still holding out hope for Cruz but if Trump takes Florida and Ohio I don't think anyone will stop Trump and no one will sit idly by and watch Hillary get elected.  

No one here condones violence by either side. The rhetoric needs to get more constructive as in, "this is how I will solve the problem as POTUS." We're stuck in the "there is a problem" phase. That is a bad phase to be in because everything is negative and all the ads and speeches are apocalyptic. Attendees and protesters get whipped up into a rage where nobody thinks clearly. This is the part of politics I hate. It seems worse now because of the money that is being poured in and the increased length of the election run up.

[newtogolf]

Just now, boogielicious said:

No one here condones violence by either side. The rhetoric needs to get more constructive as in, "this is how I will solve the problem as POTUS." We're stuck in the "there is a problem" phase. That is a bad phase to be in because everything is negative and all the ads and speeches are apocalyptic. Attendees and protesters get whipped up into a rage where nobody thinks clearly. This is the part of politics I hate. It seems worse now because of the money that is being poured in and the increased length of the election run up.

I agree with that.  It's of course easier to identify a problem than the resolution to it.  Part of the issue is agreement on what the problems are.  Trump thinks the problems are illegal immigrants, poor vetting of refugees, poor treatment of our vets, weak military, bad trade agreements with other nations and an overall weak stance internationally, especially with the Middle East.  

Hillary and Bernie think the problem is wealthy people and big corporations.  

Cruz, Rubio and Kasich seem less committed to stating the problems, Cruz seems to agree with Trump on illegal immigrants, weak military and weak foreign policy while Rubio and Kasich do not.  Kasich voted for NAFTA so he doesn't see a trade problem and Rubio didn't vote on much so we're not sure what he's for or against except amnesty for illegal aliens. 

I'm not condoning the Trump circus, but he's being targeted by the media, his own party and the democrats so it's making it almost impossible for him to hold a rally without incident.  I keep hoping he can act presidential but just when he starts to he does something stupid. 

[nevets88]

22 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

No one here condones violence by either side. The rhetoric needs to get more constructive as in, "this is how I will solve the problem as POTUS." We're stuck in the "there is a problem" phase. That is a bad phase to be in because everything is negative and all the ads and speeches are apocalyptic. Attendees and protesters get whipped up into a rage where nobody thinks clearly. This is the part of politics I hate. It seems worse now because of the money that is being poured in and the increased length of the election run up.

 

Spoiler

The one billion plus dollars required and the 2 year run up to being elected is insane. There's lots of important issues to be talked about but rarely do you hear anything about campaign finance reform.

 

[saevel25]

 

34 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Where is your outrage of how BLM handled Chicago?

They are wrong in their assessment as well. In no way is violence condoned in any form other than self defense. I have no issue with protestors if they are peaceful.

34 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Do you condone their actions?

If their actions are one of violence then no. .

34 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

When the current POTUS and elected officials refuse to call for the arrest of members of BLM when their protests turn violent they are condoning violence as well.

Sure I agree with that. Are we going to get into 7 year old situation here on two wrongs don't make a right? Shouldn't Trump step above this?

34 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

You guys keep talking about all these Republicans that won't vote for Trump yet everyone I know is on the Trump bus.

The more this gets out of control the more I think level headed Republicans will just see Trump as un-presidential.

They are the 36% who have been voting for Trump the entire time. The issue is, that is only 36% of the 26% who identify as Republican. Voter turn out is about 55% the voting population. The voting population is about 230 million people.

Right now his 36% Republican base is only getting him 20 million votes. He needs about 45 million more to win the election.

I am not seeing where he is getting the other votes. He's going to get little to no minority vote.

If we look at the Electorate Map. If you assume that those states who vote democrat stay democrat. I have Clinton at 242 votes just starting out.

The major play is New York. She's not unpopular in New York. That would be big play for Trump. Another play is that the Clinton name probably still holds some sway in Arkansas and Missouri. Trump isn't particularly polling as strong in Missouri versus Cruz as he is on the east coast.

There is a scenario here where Clinton doesn't even need Ohio and Florida to win. It's going to be very tough for Trump in the General Election I think.

 

 

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

 

They are wrong in their assessment as well. In no way is violence condoned in any form other than self defense. I have no issue with protestors if they are peaceful.

If their actions are one of violence then no. .

Sure I agree with that. Are we going to get into 7 year old situation here on two wrongs don't make a right? Shouldn't Trump step above this?

The more this gets out of control the more I think level headed Republicans will just see Trump as un-presidential.

They are the 36% who have been voting for Trump the entire time. The issue is, that is only 36% of the 26% who identify as Republican. Voter turn out is about 55% the voting population. The voting population is about 230 million people.

Right now his 36% Republican base is only getting him 20 million votes. He needs about 45 million more to win the election.

I am not seeing where he is getting the other votes. He's going to get little to no minority vote.

If we look at the Electorate Map. If you assume that those states who vote democrat stay democrat. I have Clinton at 242 votes just starting out.

The major play is New York. She's not unpopular in New York. That would be big play for Trump. Another play is that the Clinton name probably still holds some sway in Arkansas and Missouri. Trump isn't particularly polling as strong in Missouri versus Cruz as he is on the east coast.

There is a scenario here where Clinton doesn't even need Ohio and Florida to win. It's going to be very tough for Trump in the General Election I think.

 

 

I agree, two wrongs don't make a right but Obama and others have been ignoring BLM for quite some time and I'm not sure it's fair to expect Trump to change his platform to appease BLM, there's no rationalizing with these people. 

As for the voting scenarios, it's wide open and I can't dispute your numbers with anything factual.  I believe most republicans would rather cut a finger off than vote for Clinton or Bernie, so if there are no other republican candidates to vote for the question is do those republicans vote for Trump or not vote at all?  I don't know the answer to that.  

I can't stand Jeb Bush but I'd go out and vote for him before I'd waive my right to vote or vote for Clinton or Bernie.  Trump is popular in NY but I can't see him winning here, Hillary would take it if she's not dealing with legal issues.  I don't think Bernie can beat Trump in NY or in the general election.  

Trump has to win Florida and Ohio today for him to get a majority of delegates.  If he doesn't I don't think he's the GOP candidate.  

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

As for the voting scenarios, it's wide open and I can't dispute your numbers with anything factual.  I believe most republicans would rather cut a finger off than vote for Clinton or Bernie, so if there are no other republican candidates to vote for the question is do those republicans vote for Trump or not vote at all?  I don't know the answer to that.

I think that will be the big thing for Trump since he's not going to garner much minority support.

 

[phillyk]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

A bit dramatic don't you think.  The people he's spoken negatively about are either here illegally or represent potential terrorists.  I have no problem with Mexicans or Muslims coming to this country as long as they do it legally and are vetted to ensure they do not have ties to ISIS.  

As for the protests, it's a 2 way street.  Trump and any politician has the right to hold a political rally without fear for his life or those of his supporters.  Where is your outrage of how BLM handled Chicago?  Do you condone their actions?  When the current POTUS and elected officials refuse to call for the arrest of members of BLM when their protests turn violent they are condoning violence as well.  

You guys keep talking about all these Republicans that won't vote for Trump yet everyone I know is on the Trump bus.  I'm still holding out hope for Cruz but if Trump takes Florida and Ohio I don't think anyone will stop Trump and no one will sit idly by and watch Hillary get elected.  

The problem is when people automatically assume that most Mexicans are here illegally and dealing drugs or most Muslims have ties to ISIS.  Trump is stirring and increasing fear and hate.  The more fear he creates, the more people rally to his cause.  And the more likely violence will be sparked at his rallies or in his name.  I'm not saying the protestors are not starting the violence, but it was because of Trump's harsh views that sparked their hatred and anger.  What does Trump say when protestors get kicked out? Oh he needs to go get a job, he's a nobody.... These are all Americans, these are people you HAVE to represent, that's in the job description.  To be president, you have to stand with all Americans, not just the ones that support you now.

Every democrat I know hates Trump.  The notion that Braivo brings up with Bernie supporters moving to Trump is disgraceful.  I don't know a single person who would just switch to the bottom of the barrel because all they care about is anti-establishment.

[Dave2512]

Except the only people that believe Trump's bizarre Mexican/Muslim generalizations are Trump and people like sucker punch guy. Everyone else shrugs it off because it's over the top crazy talk, more silly than dangerous. 

[Elmer]

8 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Except the only people that believe Trump's bizarre Mexican/Muslim generalizations are Trump and people like sucker punch guy. Everyone else shrugs it off because it's over the top crazy talk, more silly than dangerous. 

[phillyk]

46 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Except the only people that believe Trump's bizarre Mexican/Muslim generalizations are Trump and people like sucker punch guy. Everyone else shrugs it off because it's over the top crazy talk, more silly than dangerous. 

Except I think there are a lot of people like sucker punch guy (I honestly don't know though).  But I think just ignoring the fact that he says these things is almost as bad.  Oh, he's racist? who cares? Oh, he told us to punch protestors and he'll pay the legal fees? Nice! But who cares? Ignoring these qualities of a person like Trump, just says that its ok to continue saying and believing in these qualities. 

[Dave2512]

Trump or no Trump there has always been morons like sucker punch guy nobody should be surprised assholes like that are in the world. He's the flipside of the assholes there to make a scene. That it happened at a Trump rally doesn't matter much and nobody is ignoring anything it's a 24 hour story.

I doubt it's a Trump quality as much as he knows how to seize the moment. Abhorrent as his comments are it's stuff like that allowing him to hog all the headlines. That seems to be the frustration of Cruz, Kasich and Rubio, their policy talk is overshadowed by Trump's reality TV campaign dominance. In a modern social climate that makes the likes of The Kardashian's mega stars nobody should be surprised the LCD is eating out of Trump's hand.

[nevets88]