range balls vs real balls experiment results

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

@Gilberg was just in a drunken and rambling mode when he wrote that post. He tees off par 4s with his 5i or 4i or whatever. He seems to be a pretty decently long hitting golfer.

He states getting 400 feet yes feet with his 5 iron that equates to 133.3 yards

Oh ok he stated 400 feet that's 133 yards it was his question.

He was just rambling, when I played a round with him he actually hits a 5i or 4i quite a bit more than that. Enough to replace a driver on many par 4, anyways.

[natureboy]

I think it's technically illegal to intentionally heat your golf balls in competition, but I know there are no rules against placing it in your pocket between holes or switching out each hole to a ball that has sat in a warm pocket for a while.

I found the ruling, from decision 14-3/13.5 "Golf Ball Artificially Warmed"

So you're allowed to warm your balls before the round, then presumably stick them in an insulated cooler to keep them warm, or you can do what I do and heat them up using my breath/pocket between holes when I play in cold tournaments. It likely has no measurable effect for me to do this, but it makes me feel like I'm doing everything I can at least.

I think they warm up and cool down pretty slowly so the nsulated lunch bag is probably not critical. A few degrees above the ambient air temp is probably sufficient to avoid condensation on the tee. Then once it's on the fairway the ball will get wet, but 10-20 yards isn't nothing. Not storing the balls (or the driver) in the car or garage overnight when the temp is going to drop is probably the simplest strategy, and any non-range ball is likely to compress better in lower temps helping up the friction.

@Lihu played a round with the OP? I thought for sure he was pure troll.

[Pretzel]

He states getting 400 feet yes feet with his 5 iron that equates to 133.3 yards

Gilberg makes many posts, but I have not yet seen one that was meant to be taken seriously.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Pretzel" url="/t/82859/range-balls-vs-real-balls-experiment-results/72#post_1204065"]   I think it's technically illegal to intentionally heat your golf balls in competition, but I know there are no rules against placing it in your pocket between holes or switching out each hole to a ball that has sat in a warm pocket for a while. I found the ruling, from decision 14-3/13.5 "Golf Ball Artificially Warmed" So you're allowed to warm your balls before the round, then presumably stick them in an insulated cooler to keep them warm, or you can do what I do and heat them up using my breath/pocket between holes when I play in cold tournaments. It likely has no measurable effect for me to do this, but it makes me feel like I'm doing everything I can at least. [/QUOTE] I think they warm up and cool down pretty slowly so the nsulated lunch bag is probably not critical. A few degrees above the ambient air temp is probably sufficient to avoid condensation on the tee. Then once it's on the fairway the ball will get wet, but 10-20 yards isn't nothing. Not storing the balls (or the driver) in the car or garage overnight when the temp is going to drop is probably the simplest strategy, and any non-range ball is likely to compress better in lower temps helping up the friction. @Lihu - you actually played a round with the OP? I thought for sure he was pure troll.

Not a troll, but possibly descended from one of the riders of Rohan. :-D

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by natureboy

Experiment: next time you notice cool & damp and less carry distance, be meticulous about drying off each ball before you tee it and then the face of the driver before you hit. Be careful not to ground the club at address to also avoid the damp grass. You might also just bash a couple of drives to start without monitoring the distance just to up the club head temp a bit, but the towel will be more effective.

Hit 100 driver this morning with range balls.

The balls were soaked and wet. The paint on the surface felt "wet" and it was damp but warm (68F).

I drove short by about 20 yards of where I expected. The balls landed by the "215" flag with my 136 gram DG X100 Talylormade Burner 9 degree driver. Normally they go over that hill and I can hit the "235" flag with the same driver.

I dried off 25 of the balls and they seemed to consistently hit the flag area or even go a little past it as compared to the 75 balls that I hit "wet".

So, I hit balls at range 2 yesterday with my new super light driver, and was carrying them on the launch monitor X distance and was pretty confident as I rolled to the back fence which was up 20 yards due to being on grass. Also, I had results from a launch monitor hours earlier at two different locations. This morning at range 1 using the same driver I was only able to carry the driver X - 20 yards. I hit the just past the hill where the blue flag was situated, but we were 25 yards up on grass. They barely rolled and bumped the back fence so I am pretty sure about the carry distances. Admittedly, my timing is pretty bad with this super light club, but I am pretty confident about the differences.

Conclusion over this 2 week test:

Range balls at 65F with a damp surface after drying with a towel to about 20 yards shorter than dried off damp from the machine ones at 85F. I think the warmer air also dried up any water just under the paint surface. Whereas the colder conditions didn't allow the balls to dry off at all.

Range balls actually do fly shorter under certain conditions, but there are some conditions where they fly as far or even farther than premium golf balls.

[natureboy]

So, I hit balls at range 2 yesterday with my new super light driver, and was carrying them on the launch monitor X distance and was pretty confident as I rolled to the back fence which was up 20 yards due to being on grass. Also, I had results from a launch monitor hours earlier at two different locations. This morning at range 1 using the same driver I was only able to carry the driver X - 20 yards. I hit the just past the hill where the blue flag was situated, but we were 25 yards up on grass. They barely rolled and bumped the back fence so I am pretty sure about the carry distances. Admittedly, my timing is pretty bad with this super light club, but I am pretty confident about the differences.

Conclusion over this 2 week test:

Range balls at 65F with a damp surface after drying with a towel to about 20 yards shorter than dried off damp from the machine ones at 85F. I think the warmer air also dried up any water just under the paint surface. Whereas the colder conditions didn't allow the balls to dry off at all.

Range balls actually do fly shorter under certain conditions, but there are some conditions where they fly as far or even farther than premium golf balls.

Not following some of your wording. Are you saying that with dried range balls temperature affected carry by 1 yard per degree? That's almost 3x what would be expected on premium golf balls due to temperature (both compression and air resistance). I figured they would be less resilient, but not that much. In the morning sessions, did they feel cool to the touch as if they were exposed to cold overnight temps and hadn't warmed to ambient temperature yet? I'm thinking maybe they were closer to 55-60* internally. With premium balls temp effect on compression usually contributes about half of the carry difference. So that seems to imply compression loss for range balls due to temp is ~ 4-5x that of premium.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/82859/range-balls-vs-real-balls-experiment-results/90#post_1204270"]   So, I hit balls at range 2 yesterday with my new super light driver, and was carrying them on the launch monitor X distance and was pretty confident as I rolled to the back fence which was up 20 yards due to being on grass. Also, I had results from a launch monitor hours earlier at two different locations. This morning at range 1 using the same driver I was only able to carry the driver X - 20 yards. I hit the just past the hill where the blue flag was situated, but we were 25 yards up on grass. They barely rolled and bumped the back fence so I am pretty sure about the carry distances. Admittedly, my timing is pretty bad with this super light club, but I am pretty confident about the differences. Conclusion over this 2 week test: Range balls at 65F with a damp surface after drying with a towel to about 20 yards shorter than dried off damp from the machine ones at 85F. I think the warmer air also dried up any water just under the paint surface. Whereas the colder conditions didn't allow the balls to dry off at all. Range balls actually do fly shorter under certain conditions, but there are some conditions where they fly as far or even farther than premium golf balls. [/QUOTE] Not following some of your wording. Are you saying that with dried range balls temperature affected carry by 1 yard per degree? That's almost 3x what would be expected on premium golf balls due to temperature (both compression and air resistance). I figured they would be less resilient, but not that much. In the morning sessions, did they feel cool to the touch as if they were exposed to cold overnight temps and hadn't warmed to ambient temperature yet? I'm thinking maybe they were closer to 55-60* internally. With premium balls temp effect on compression usually contributes about half of the carry difference. So that seems to imply compression loss for range balls due to temp is ~ 4-5x that of premium.

I was thinking that it was a combination of many effects like temperature, water on the worn surface, water soaked into the paint and all the scuffs and tiny chips taken out of the surface of the balls through use. The temperature seems to affect compression and flight, while the surface water and moisture seems to affect drag and the "boundary layer" around the ball reducing some spin and increasing drag? I didn't do any real tests to prove this at all. These are very coarse observations.

[natureboy]

I was thinking that it was a combination of many effects like temperature, water on the worn surface, water soaked into the paint and all the scuffs and tiny chips taken out of the surface of the balls through use.

The temperature seems to affect compression and flight, while the surface water and moisture seems to affect drag and the "boundary layer" around the ball reducing some spin and increasing drag?

I didn't do any real tests to prove this at all. These are very coarse observations.

I hadn't thought about the range ball cover being 'spongy' and holding moisture. I would still say that the effect of that moisture would be lowered friction at impact reducing spin. As the ball compresses against the face, I could see some residual moisture getting squeezed out of the cover and getting between the ball and club face.

Older balls with more worn down dimples and paint filling in the dimples will 'hydroplane' more than newer range balls sort of like worn tire treads.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I was thinking that it was a combination of many effects like temperature, water on the worn surface, water soaked into the paint and all the scuffs and tiny chips taken out of the surface of the balls through use.

The temperature seems to affect compression and flight, while the surface water and moisture seems to affect drag and the "boundary layer" around the ball reducing some spin and increasing drag?

I didn't do any real tests to prove this at all. These are very coarse observations.

I hadn't thought about the range ball cover being 'spongy' and holding moisture. I would still say that the effect of that moisture would be lowered friction at impact reducing spin. As the ball compresses against the face, I could see some residual moisture getting squeezed out of the cover and getting between the ball and club face.

Older balls with more worn down dimples and paint filling in the dimples will 'hydroplane' more than newer range balls sort of like worn tire treads.

That's what @Pretzel

[DrvFrShow]

Well, we got brand new range balls last week. They told us... okay the old balls are all worn out and these new ones will go a lot further.... except they don't. I've been wondering if something is wrong. Aside from the newly developed case of the shanks. With the old balls I was getting a 210 carry with my driver. I can barely reach 200. If I swing out of my socks I can hit about 215. I've also  been having trouble reaching the 120 yd green with my 9 iron unless i really lay into it.

I took an old shag ball out of my bag and dropped one of these range balls and it from the same height. 4" difference. My two year old beat to death shag ball bounces higher. Then I noticed there are about 1/4 the number of balls  near the back  fence  as  there used to be. They gave us detuned balls and didn't tell us. To confirm this I stopped at my pro's shop  and hit some drives... I was crushing them to my golf  course distance.

I have a lesson tuesday to straighten out the mess. I have a membership at the range so now that I know this, it'll be ball flight shape only and not even hitting targets over the winter. Sad. I was hoping to work on accuracy.

[colin007]

I don't think there's much difference with our range balls. I think they fly pretty much as far as normal balls.

[CR McDivot]

I have come to where I only judge quality of contact with range balls. Easy enough since I play 30+ year old muscle backs - feedback from these lets you know any mishit ... fat, thin, toe, heel ... all apparent once you are familiar with the club!

Pitching, chipping, and putting I will only use the ball I play. Fortunately my home course has practice facilities that are usually available for this.

[Lihu]

Well, we got brand new range balls last week. They told us... okay the old balls are all worn out and these new ones will go a lot further.... except they don't. I've been wondering if something is wrong. Aside from the newly developed case of the shanks. With the old balls I was getting a 210 carry with my driver. I can barely reach 200. If I swing out of my socks I can hit about 215. I've also  been having trouble reaching the 120 yd green with my 9 iron unless i really lay into it. I took an old shag ball out of my bag and dropped one of these range balls and it from the same height. 4" difference. My two year old beat to death shag ball bounces higher. Then I noticed there are about 1/4 the number of balls  near the back  fence  as  there used to be. They gave us detuned balls and didn't tell us. To confirm this I stopped at my pro's shop  and hit some drives... I was crushing them to my golf  course distance. I have a lesson tuesday to straighten out the mess. I have a membership at the range so now that I know this, it'll be ball flight shape only and not even hitting targets over the winter. Sad. I was hoping to work on accuracy.

Could be PNW conditions?

[DrvFrShow]

No, the weather has been around 70 F. Today it was 70 F. Last year they had Nike RZN balls, and they were much more lively. This last batch is Srixon range balls, and these feel like I'm hitting a rock. They probably got a deal on them, plus this also reduces the pick up time on the range. I also noticed another woman was hitting driver and she usually hits a 200 carry was barely reaching 175.

[Lihu]

No, the weather has been around 70 F. Today it was 70 F. Last year they had Nike RZN balls, and they were much more lively. This last batch is Srixon range balls, and these feel like I'm hitting a rock. They probably got a deal on them, plus this also reduces the pick up time on the range. I also noticed another woman was hitting driver and she usually hits a 200 carry was barely reaching 175.

That's strange. Usually, new dry balls at 70F shouldn't don't go that short (-25 yards)? Here's a Trackman chart: http://blog.trackmangolf.com/ball-conversion/

BTW, 200 yards of carry is pretty far for a lady. Almost as far as the average male golfer. . .apparently you have no shortage of female golf talent up there.

[DrvFrShow]

Well we do have a couple of Div 1 schools here (UW, WSU, Gonzaga, Eastern WA). One of them is local. Then there is are two Div 2 schools locally. I see the women practicing both at the range and on the courses. Then there are the high school teams. No, there is no shortage of talent. There are high schoolers shooting in the 70s, and their teams play the 5700 yd tees. Unlike the older women playing the game from the "ladies tees" these women are athletes.

But back to range balls....

This is what I've noticed with this new lot. It's like they fly about a club short. I usually hit my 9 iron with a 127 carry and I can't get a 120 carry with it. And if I look at the label they are the Srixon RGK white - and given the club short, appear to be the limited distance variety. So it's shot shape, and I'll have to work with my 8 iron at 9 iron distances, and just realize that a 200 yd carry with these balls is good.

[Lihu]

Well we do have a couple of Div 1 schools here (UW, WSU, Gonzaga, Eastern WA). One of them is local. Then there is are two Div 2 schools locally. I see the women practicing both at the range and on the courses. Then there are the high school teams. No, there is no shortage of talent. There are high schoolers shooting in the 70s, and their teams play the 5700 yd tees. Unlike the older women playing the game from the "ladies tees" these women are athletes. But back to range balls.... This is what I've noticed with this new lot. It's like they fly about a club short. I usually hit my 9 iron with a 127 carry and I can't get a 120 carry with it. And if I look at the label they are the Srixon RGK white - and given the club short, appear to be the limited distance variety. So it's shot shape, and I'll have to work with my 8 iron at 9 iron distances, and just realize that a 200 yd carry with these balls is good.

Yes, if they are the limited distance then I would expect an 8% drop in distance. They are also lower compression balls so higher swing speeds will probably get a couple yards less. We have a few of those mixed in as well, but I use my LW on those balls. Yesterday, I was told that there is yet another factor that sometimes comes into play at my two ranges, wind. My range 2 has a light 15mph head breeze in the afternoons, so the reduction is much higher. You can lose 10 yards on a drive just from that alone. The first range where I first noticed a reduction has a light headwind maybe 10-12 mph near the fence on some mornings. I couldn't feel the breeze at the stalls, but noticed the flags lightly flapping at the back of the range facing the stalls. That was probably the cause of the really short flights along with the other factors. It feels so peaceful on the range, because on the course I can usually feel a brisker breeze either in my face or back. Check the wind direction as that will skew the results.

[DrvFrShow]

Wind isn't a problem. It's usually a cross wind. I think they did this to shorten the amount of time they have to pay the guy to drive the cart to pick up the balls. I noticed far fewer balls near the back fence. So with this being the case instead of picking that up several times during the day (it gets busy) they'll only have to pick past 225 once a day.

But as a video gamer, I'm used to the bait and switch.