Recreational "Tour" with Modified Rules, Good or Bad?

[iacas]

Well i hope none of you play best ball or scrambles, cause thats not real golf according to you guys

Best ball is certainly a form of golf.

Scrambles are not.

[MEfree]

Haven't read all the posts, but agree with those that find a problem with preferred lies in the rough. I can understand why some like to play preferred lies in your own fairway as it rewards accuracy and takes away the luck element if you play a course with poor fairways, but don't like preferred lies off your own fairway. With that said, if this is your most convenient option for competition, I would go for it knowing that you can still play the ball down when you play on your own. Later, you can look around for a more serious competitions if you enjoy playing tourny golf.

[tefunk]

To the OP... Maybe check out the following amateur tour, I think they play by USGA rules: http://www.amateurgolftour.net I thought about it for the fun of it and I enjoy competition, but they seem to charge an arm and a leg (I imagine whoever runs it overall is trying to make a buck). As far as the rest of the discussion is concerned... I could care less. Play in whatever kind of league you enjoy playing in. I personally am happy playing by USGA rules, and that's what I play by in money games.

[ryan772]

Best ball is certainly a form of golf. Scrambles are not.

My point was those they dont necessarily follow the same set of rules ad regular rog. I feel that if your playing for extra practice, for fun,and not using the handicap why does it have to be a bad thing. If it gets someone somewhat used to playing in competition with out all the rigors of "real r.o.g" it might help them relax while still getting that competition.

[iacas]

My point was those they dont necessarily follow the same set of rules ad regular rog.

Best ball does. http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-30

Scrambles do not.

[Elmer]

Best ball is certainly a form of golf.

Scrambles are not.

I am going to wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Scrambles are a form a golf. it has all the elements and aspects of golf without following the specific rules.

You use a club, a ball. You hit the ball, putt on the green, write down a score. There are birdies, bogies, pars, fairways, bunkers and hopefully a cart girl!

In what way is a scramble not a form of golf?

What would you call it, baseball? Cricket?

Best ball does. http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-30

Scrambles do not.

This I can agree with.

Scrambles do not follow the specific rules of Golf.

Which is why from now on I will no longer be playing in any of those charity scrambles.

Those charities are enabling the bastardization of golf!

[dbuck]

I play in the odd scramble, at least one a year. Scrambles are a golf-like game played with golf equipment. They are fun, but not what I call "golf", or "real golf".

What the OP described is closer to golf. As many have said, you can play under these "conditions of competition" and play correctly on your own. You could actually play by the rules and only take advantage of the preferred lies in extreme conditions. While a lot of these things are beneficial to the individual golfer, they also faciltate moving a bunch of folks of varying skill levels efficiently around a course which may not be closed for the tournament and completing the event in a reasonable time.

As long as you play by the rules in most of your play and don't let these indulgences become habits, it won't spoil you. I play by the rules most of the time, and have caught myself in scrambles forgetting to improve my lie or take mulligans, etc.

Life is short, have fun.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18rounds

I've said it before...

I wonder why our sport isn't growing. Somebody suggest a group of players having fun under simplified rules and the chorus of "that aint golf", "That's cheating" and  "get off my lawn" starts.

Just look at post here. someone will present a scenario and it will take two pages of post for the rules gurus to hash through which point which rule applies and why.

Almost all sports have people playing by recreational rules. Our local rec hockey league plays with no checking, shortened periods and modified overtime rules. Nobody is telling them that they are cheating or that they are not playing hockey.

You sir have won the internet for the day!

I played in a Lacrosse league for years, we played half  field, indoor, reduced teams, reduced contact, and no face offs after goals.

It was a blast and it was still Lacrosse.

There are rec leagues for all types of sports. But Golf seems to be the only stickler of the bunch.

And people wonder why golf is perceived to be snobby, elitist and exclusionary !

I agree with your main points ( @18rounds , @Elmer) but there is no need for "this is why golf ..." comments.   For any sports (or games which GOLF is one, BTW), there are purists who will frown upon any rule changes.   Golf is no exception.

To OP, have fun with the tour.   Like another poster said, life is short (and golf life is shorter).

[iacas]

I am going to wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Scrambles are a form a golf.

I was talking about the formats in the Rules of Golf.

Scrambles are not listed there. You cannot use string, buy mulligans, etc. in any accepted form of golf.

I was responding to a comment about "real golf" and the original poster said best ball and scrambles were not "real golf." Best ball is, scrambles are not.

[ryan772]

I was talking about the formats in the Rules of Golf. Scrambles are not listed there. You cannot use string, buy mulligans, etc. in any accepted form of golf. I was responding to a comment about "real golf" and the original poster said best ball and scrambles were not "real golf." Best ball is, scrambles are not.

I was wrong when i said best ball wasnt golf, but you that wasnt the point of the post.

[iacas]

I was wrong when i said best ball wasnt golf, but you that wasnt the point of the post.

That was your entire post. You said that best ball and scrambles weren't really golf. They play best ball in the Ryder Cup. It's an accepted and completely legitimate form of golf. Anyway, as you've admitted you're wrong, let's move on?

[Braivo]

That was your entire post. You said that best ball and scrambles weren't really golf. They play best ball in the Ryder Cup. It's an accepted and completely legitimate form of golf.

Anyway, as you've admitted you're wrong, let's move on?

Yes, let's move on. My original intent with this thread was to get information to help me decide whether *I* should play on a tour with modified rules or not, not the merits of such tours.

As I work my way back to my single-digit cap ways of my 19-year-old self I am getting the itch to play competitive golf. By competitive golf, I don't mean half-assed, everyone-gets-a-prize type of competitive golf, I mean real nerve-inducing competition. It is in my nature to be competitive and having an outlet for that competition is important to me. I want to get in the zone and play focused.

Golf is one of the only sports where an amateur can play by the same rules, and even the same venues in many cases, as the pros. This creates excitement for me.

This tour I am considering requires a significant time investment of at least a full 18-hole round each weekend. As a busy single father this would comprise most of my rounds played in any given summer, so committing to such a format has important implications for me as I won't have a bunch of non-competitive rounds to play by the real rules.

That being said, if this was playing nine holes on a weeknight in a beer league with some modified rules, fine, not a large investment on my part.

Given the geographic convenience of this tour I as soliciting input as to whether the trade-off in rules modification might dilute the competition enough to make it unlikely that it would meet my competitive hopes.

[MEfree]

Given the geographic convenience of this tour I as soliciting input as to whether the trade-off in rules modification might dilute the competition enough to make it unlikely that it would meet my competitive hopes.

I read the posts on the 1st and last page, but not those in between. You said there was prize money- how much? I think if there is enough prize money at stake, there will be enough competition for you. Eventually, you will have to be able to play the ball down effectively if you want to play in real competition, but this might be a good stepping stone if there is nothing else that is as convenient for you.

[Braivo]

I read the posts on the 1st and last page, but not those in between. You said there was prize money- how much? I think if there is enough prize money at stake, there will be enough competition for you. Eventually, you will have to be able to play the ball down effectively if you want to play in real competition, but this might be a good stepping stone if there is nothing else that is as convenient for you.

The prize money is trivial, essentially finishing in the top 3 will cover your entry fee for the tournament, give or take a few dollars. So on a given day I'd be competing to win $50-$70.

I would try the tour out to get a real feel for it, but it is $120 just to join the tour before any actual tournament entry fees.

[RayG]

I played in a "recreational" league several years ago. 12-14 groups of 4 players. Pretty much stuck to the rules, even with the other cart keeping the scores for the other one. The only real variation was the OB penalty. IF you thought it was OB, you would hit your provy. If the original was OB, a kind of committee decision on where it went out among the players- a drop within 2 clubs from best estimate, hitting 3. This was only really to keep things moving and not have to go all the way back to the tee. No "winter rules" unless specified at the beginning. Only came into play once or twice due to weather.

[Mac62]

This tour I am considering requires a significant time investment of at least a full 18-hole round each weekend. As a busy single father this would comprise most of my rounds played in any given summer, so committing to such a format has important implications for me as I won't have a bunch of non-competitive rounds to play by the real rules.

That being said, if this was playing nine holes on a weeknight in a beer league with some modified rules, fine, not a large investment on my part.

Given the geographic convenience of this tour I as soliciting input as to whether the trade-off in rules modification might dilute the competition enough to make it unlikely that it would meet my competitive hopes.

If everybody is playing by the same rules, I don't see how it would dilute the competition - everybody is just going to have artificially lower scores.  Whether it will meet your competitive hopes or not will probably have to do with how seriously they take this league.  If they stick strictly to their "modified" rules and guys are serious about the competition, it could do it for you.  If it's a bunch of clowns yukking it up with a 12-pack in their coolers while they kick balls out from behind trees, toss them out of bunkers and take gimmes on 8-foot putts, maybe not so much.  If you have some guys who "modify" the rules more than others (i.e., cheat their asses off), it doesn't make for a very level playing field.

IMO, playing modified/relaxed rules shouldn't have any real effect on your golf game overall.  As long as you know the real rules and play by them everywhere else but in this league, the only difference should be that you'll shoot a few (or more!) strokes lower playing their modified rules.  I think anybody could go out one day and play a rollicking beer round with buddies using foot wedges, mulligans and gimmes, then turn around the next day and play the ball down in a tournament or handicap round without any adverse effects.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18rounds

I've said it before...

I wonder why our sport isn't growing. Somebody suggest a group of players having fun under simplified rules and the chorus of "that aint golf", "That's cheating" and  "get off my lawn" starts.

Just look at post here. someone will present a scenario and it will take two pages of post for the rules gurus to hash through which point which rule applies and why.

Almost all sports have people playing by recreational rules. Our local rec hockey league plays with no checking, shortened periods and modified overtime rules. Nobody is telling them that they are cheating or that they are not playing hockey.

You sir have won the internet for the day!

I played in a Lacrosse league for years, we played half  field, indoor, reduced teams, reduced contact, and no face offs after goals.

It was a blast and it was still Lacrosse.

There are rec leagues for all types of sports. But Golf seems to be the only stickler of the bunch.

And people wonder why golf is perceived to be snobby, elitist and exclusionary !

Funny, because I played what I considered recreational golf in a tournament club for 22 years.  We always had fun, played in many formats, yet we always played by USGA Rules, except for our early spring get acquainted scramble, which was intended to be a social event.  The concept that you can't have fun while playing a recreational tournament or even a casual round by the rules has always been puzzling to me.

For those who say that the league the OP describes is playing golf - how can it really be golf when the most basic of golf's fundamental principles (playing the ball as it lies) is being tossed out the window?  I played the game for 15 years before I really started to try and learn the rules, but even during that time I never deliberately ignored the rules, I simply didn't know them very well.  I always thought I was playing by the rules, but as I gained experience I found that the word of mouth rules I'd picked up along the way were mostly inaccurate or incomplete.  I gradually moved closer and closer to playing the game correctly, but one principle that I never fudged on was playing the ball as it lies.

I learned that axiom before I ever picked up a club to play golf.  You play the lie that your previous stroke gave you, unless a stroke is impossible or impractical, and then there are simple rules to cover those instances.  If a player never learns more than that, he is pretty much playing golf.  If he throws that fundamental out, then he is not.  He is playing something that vaguely resembles golf, but can't be compared to the real thing.

I play golf with all sorts of players.  I see all sorts of creative rules applications.  It doesn't bother me in the least.  I sometimes even play by their rules, at least to some extent.  But when it comes to fluffing lies, I draw the line.  I don't care if it takes away from my competitiveness, I don't enjoy simplifying the game just in the quest of making it more "fun".  If it's not fun as golf, then why did you take it up in the first place?  Most golfers love the game because of the challenge, not in spite of it.

[MEfree]

Funny, because I played what I considered recreational golf in a tournament club for 22 years.  We always had fun, played in many formats, yet we always played by USGA Rules, except for our early spring get acquainted scramble, which was intended to be a social event.  The concept that you can't have fun while playing a recreational tournament or even a casual round by the rules has always been puzzling to me.   For those who say that the league the OP describes is playing golf - how can it really be golf when the most basic of golf's fundamental principles (playing the ball as it lies) is being tossed out the window?  I played the game for 15 years before I really started to try and learn the rules, but even during that time I never deliberately ignored the rules, I simply didn't know them very well.  I always thought I was playing by the rules, but as I gained experience I found that the word of mouth rules I'd picked up along the way were mostly inaccurate or incomplete.  I gradually moved closer and closer to playing the game correctly, but one principle that I never fudged on was playing the ball as it lies.   I learned that axiom before I ever picked up a club to play golf.  You play the lie that your previous stroke gave you, unless a stroke is impossible or impractical, and then there are simple rules to cover those instances.  If a player never learns more than that, he is pretty much playing golf.  If he throws that fundamental out, then he is not.  He is playing something that vaguely resembles golf, but can't be compared to the real thing. I play golf with all sorts of players.  I see all sorts of creative rules applications.  It doesn't bother me in the least.  I sometimes even play by their rules, at least to some extent.  But when it comes to fluffing lies, I draw the line.  I don't care if it takes away from my competitiveness, I don't enjoy simplifying the game just in the quest of making it more "fun".  If it's not fun as golf, then why did you take it up in the first place?  Most golfers love the game because of the challenge, not in spite of it.

You don't show much ability to put yourself in other's shoes. You said that you picked up inaccurate/incomplete rules through word of mouth. Others may be visual learners and think part of the game of golf is fluffing the ball on the fairway because they see others do this. For most of the beginners I have seen, the game is challenging enough playing from perfect lies. While some progress to the level that bad lies offer more challenge in a good way, others only get to the level that a bad fairway lie is more of a disappointing frustration rather than a fun challenge. I always play the ball down unless the committee dictates otherwise, but understand why others prefer to fluff the ball. On a side note, what does it say about the ROG if it took you, a noted rules expert, 15 years before you started to get a good understanding of the rules?