What is the purpose of life?

[rkim291968]

My best friend is an atheist/agnostic and I am religious. Both of us are well educated and have graduate degrees. He and I have numerous conversations about many subjects related to creation, evolution, and the bible.

I would like to point out that religion relies on faith. Science relies on theories. For those that appear to be getting defensive or arguing for either side, you are wasting time and energy on something you will never be able to prove. Life is too short to be arguing about this.

(Hopefully this is OT)

+1.   Live long and prosper.  Spock summed it up well, IMO.

[phillyk]

My best friend is an atheist/agnostic and I am religious. Both of us are well educated and have graduate degrees. He and I have numerous conversations about many subjects related to creation, evolution, and the bible.

I would like to point out that religion relies on faith. Science relies on theories. For those that appear to be getting defensive or arguing for either side, you are wasting time and energy on something you will never be able to prove. Life is too short to be arguing about this.

I would like to point out that all science is not just theory.  There are many laws, constants and numbers that just exist.  Thermodynamic law, laws of motion, etc.  These aren't theories anymore.  Speculation and theory is the foundation of science, yes, but it can become much more through research.

[Duff McGee]

I would like to point out that all science is not just theory.  There are many laws, constants and numbers that just exist.  Thermodynamic law, laws of motion, etc.  These aren't theories anymore.  Speculation and theory is the foundation of science, yes, but it can become much more through research.

Also theories are basically scientific facts. Hypotheses are more like what people think of when they use the word "theory." People just assume it means "guess." It does not. My very religious father in law and I were in a discussion after I told him that my wife and I are now atheists. He asked what I thought of evolution and I said evolution is fact. He says loudly and in a kind of defensive panic "I disagree! It is NOT fact!" He is not a scientist and is a very devout conservative Christian. And a denier. He has nothing but what he hears on Fox News, the Moody Broadcasting Network, and what he hears at church to "back up" his "theory" about life. After spending my entire life researching and living s devout life with a "personal relationship with Jesus," I broke free of the chains of religious superstition. I used to debate atheists about 4 hours a day for years. One of the problems is that people are brainwashed to think of "faith" as commendable. They don't realize what faith actually is. I always assumed my faith was based at least somewhat in fact. I was SHOCKED and my whole world flipped upside down when I realized that atheists were not asking for "proof" of God, they were merely asking for even one tiny piece of evidence! There is as much evidence for leprechauns and unicorns as there is for the existence of any God.

[Shorty]

If we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys.

Do you seriously think that that is how evolution works?

Do you really think that evolution has no answer to that question? Seriously?

Originally Posted by RGoosen

I would like to point out that religion relies on faith. Science relies on theories . When an  existing belief can be disproven we move on.

This is the kind of nonsense that pervades these argument. It is not true. Science does NOT rely on theories. Scientists pose questions and answer/prove them. This is how knowledge evolves. We respond to observable reality. Dead people to not walk. Snakes do not talk. Virgins do not have children. These are not "theories".

The counter argument to scientific knowledge is not to persist in believing things that can not possibly be true and have never been demonstrated to be true. Do you guys really believe in Adam and Eve , Noah's Ark, that Mary was a virgin  and fear eternal damnation?

Again - let's have ONE piece of evidence. Just one.....please. Why is that so hard? Is it because faith means persisting in believing in something that even the devout know to be untrue?

[Duff McGee]

Do you seriously think that that is how evolution works? Do you really think that evolution has no answer to that question? Seriously? [COLOR=181818]Originally Posted by [/COLOR][COLOR=181818] RGoosen [/COLOR][COLOR=181818] [/COLOR][URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/84340/what-is-the-purpose-of-life/126#post_1198757][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG][/URL][COLOR=181818] [/COLOR][COLOR=181818] [/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]I would like to point out that religion relies on faith. Science relies on theories . When an  existing belief can be disproven we move on.  [/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]This is the kind of nonsense that pervades these argument. It is not true. Science does NOT rely on theories. Scientists pose questions and answer/prove them. This is how knowledge evolves. We respond to observable reality. Dead people to not walk. Snakes do not talk. Virgins do not have children. These are not "theories".[/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]The counter argument to scientific knowledge is not to persist in believing things that can not possibly be true and have never been demonstrated to be true. Do you guys really believe in Adam and Eve , Noah's Ark, that Mary was a virgin  and fear eternal damnation?[/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]Again - let's have ONE piece of evidence. Just one.....please. Why is that so hard? Is it because faith means persisting in believing in something that even the devout know to be untrue?[/COLOR]

This. 100%. Someone asked me why I am being rude about this and I don't want to offend the good people of this board, BUT..... When I say "ignorant" I don't mean stupid or anything derogatory at all. When people (just as I used to do) say things like "well why are there still monkeys" or "you have to have just as much faith to believe in evolution" they are speaking from ignorance, I.e., they don't even know the basics of the topic they are trying to discuss. It is largely a defense mechanism. Believers are very scared to actually search and truly learn these topics bc the bible is very clear about "having the faith of a child" and what happens if you ever "turn away from God." Plus their entire existence is based on this belief system. I am not speaking from ignorance here as I was over the top devout all my life. I mean my wife is from a family of pastors, she has a bible degree, and on and on and she is now an atheist as well.

[RGoosen]

I love heated arguments about religion and politcs.

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/84340/what-is-the-purpose-of-life/100_100#post_1198667"] No, it doesn't "state" anything. There is evidence that what you state might be true. However, like all decent theories, it has holes in it. Science is about the process of finding answers and not declaring that they have all the answers. People declare that they have all the answers, science doesn't.

You wanna compare holes between Creationism and Evolution? Evolution is fact. There is no debating it intelligently. There is only denial. The flat earth society have no scientific evidence of their belief, it's pure nonsense.[/quote] I'm not advocating to compare Creationism vs Evolution, in fact I've stated clearly that faith and science are completely different things. Keep them separate. Theories are not facts. They are reasonable hypotheses that have some evidence demonstrating them.

[Duff McGee]

I'm not advocating to compare Creationism vs Evolution, in fact I've stated clearly that faith and science are completely different things. Keep them separate. Theories are not facts. They are reasonable hypotheses that have some evidence demonstrating them.

That's not true Lihu. That is not what a scientific theory is.

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/84340/what-is-the-purpose-of-life/150#post_1198774"] I'm not advocating to compare Creationism vs Evolution, in fact I've stated clearly that faith and science are completely different things. Keep them separate. Theories are not facts. They are reasonable hypotheses that have some evidence demonstrating them.

That's not true Lihu. That is not what a scientific theory is.[/quote] ???

[Duff McGee]

???

Your definition was a misstatement of a scientific theory. It's not just "some evidence to support it."

[isukgolf]

Your definition was a misstatement of a scientific theory. It's not just "some evidence to support it."

Let me google that for you guys to help this conversation long: Oxford dictionary theory: [QUOTE]A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained: Darwin’s theory of evolution[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Origin Late 16th century (denoting a mental scheme of something to be done): via late Latin from Greek theōria 'contemplation, speculation', from theōros 'spectator'.[/QUOTE] [URL=http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory[/URL]

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/84340/what-is-the-purpose-of-life/150#post_1198777"] ???

Your definition was a misstatement of a scientific theory. It's not just "some evidence to support it."[/quote] Okay. To the OP. This sounds more like a philosophical discussion, and that's some people's idea of a purpose in life as well. :-)

[phillyk]

Let me google that for you guys to help this conversation long:

Oxford dictionary theory:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory

Theory and scientific theory are slightly different.  This sums it up better even though it's not a very good site.

"As used in science , a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts."
From www.fsteiger.com/ theory .html

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="isukgolf" url="/t/84340/what-is-the-purpose-of-life/144#post_1198780"] Let me google that for you guys to help this conversation long: Oxford dictionary theory: [URL=http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory[/URL][/QUOTE] Theory and scientific theory are slightly different.  This sums it up better even though it's not a very good site.

"As used in science , a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts." From [URL=http://www.fsteiger.com/]www.fsteiger.com/[/URL] theory .html

Yes, the difference being that at least some evidence supports scientific theories.

[Duff McGee]

Theory and scientific theory are slightly different.  This sums it up better even though it's not a very good site.

"As used in science , a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts." From [URL=http://www.fsteiger.com/]www.fsteiger.com/[/URL] theory .html

Sorry if it sounded like I was being short with you Lihu. This definition is what I was talking about and I realize my response sounded short.

[Lihu]

[quote name="phillyk" url="/t/84340/what-is-the-purpose-of-life/150#post_1198787"]Theory and scientific theory are slightly different.  This sums it up better even though it's not a very good site.

"As used in science , a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts." From [URL=http://www.fsteiger.com/]www.fsteiger.com/[/URL] theory .html

Sorry if it sounded like I was being short with you Lihu. This definition is what I was talking about and I realize my response sounded short.[/quote] Not at all, I just didn't know to what you referring, but you cleared it up in subsequent posts. :-)

[Valleygolfer]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

If we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys.

Originally Posted by Shorty

Do you seriously think that that is how evolution works?

Do you really think that evolution has no answer to that question? Seriously?

I understand your lack of sense of humor in general so I will answer, yes and no...

[9wood]

You are ignorant, plain and simple.

But you haven't met the challenge I presented to you, nor were you even able to answer any of the questions I presented to you. Why is that?