Religion vs. Atheism Thread

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

No wonder only theists really flock to these threads. Atheists have learned better than to talk you people that don't even understand the very basics of logic. I'll leave you all (so I don't get banned bc apparently sarcasm is forbidden when you are a meanie atheist) to your self congratulatory circle jerk. But in the meantime, here is a very powerful meme.

You know, when you first came here I thought you were a pretty decent poster.

But then your plan worked.

What does your post add to the conversation @turtleback

You're right, I should have brought up yoga pants.

What does YOUR post add to the conversation?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

No wonder only theists really flock to these threads. Atheists have learned better than to talk you people that don't even understand the very basics of logic. I'll leave you all (so I don't get banned bc apparently sarcasm is forbidden when you are a meanie atheist) to your self congratulatory circle jerk. But in the meantime, here is a very powerful meme.

You know, when you first came here I thought you were a pretty decent poster.

But then your plan worked.

What does your post add to the conversation @turtleback

You're right, I should have brought up yoga pants.

What does YOUR post add to the conversation?

You're provoking another poster into a retaliatory response. It added nothing to the thread and was intended to get an equal or greater response. My post is a reminder to all, including you, to stick to the subject and behave like the mature adults you all think you are.

[Abu3baid]

I was going to reply, but I have been ignored several times, so I'm not going to waste my time.. It is obvious that this thread was opened just for the purpose of bashing Christians which is just not cool!

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

No wonder only theists really flock to these threads. Atheists have learned better than to talk you people that don't even understand the very basics of logic. I'll leave you all (so I don't get banned bc apparently sarcasm is forbidden when you are a meanie atheist) to your self congratulatory circle jerk. But in the meantime, here is a very powerful meme.

You know, when you first came here I thought you were a pretty decent poster.

But then your plan worked.

What does your post add to the conversation @turtleback

You're right, I should have brought up yoga pants.

What does YOUR post add to the conversation?

You're provoking another poster into a retaliatory response. It added nothing to the thread and was intended to get an equal or greater response. My post is a reminder to all, including you, to stick to the subject and behave like the mature adults you all think you are.

Ouch! I resemble that remark!

I was going to reply, but I have been ignored several times, so I'm not going to waste my time.. It is obvious that this thread was opened just for the purpose of bashing Christians which is just not cool!

Yeah, you're clear of this volley of assaults. Be happy about that too!

[Duff McGee]

So let me get this straight. If you are not an Atheist then you don't understand logic?  It's not a powerful meme at all. You assume that if God is all powerful then he is making every decision for us. That is incorrect. All powerful means he could make every decision for us, not that he has to. It's the basic concept behind understanding the two words, should and shall in context of laws written. It's the reason why the AASHTO Green Book has changed every word shall to a should so that lawyers don't hone in on the word shall and use it as a means to prove negligence. God doesn't have to do anything in our lives. He could be sitting back and letting nature run it's course. That is also with in his power.  In the end God could still exist and we could all be interpreting the wrong way. We could have looked at the creation story as Adam and Eve setting us on a course of where God doesn't directly interfere in every aspect of our lives because we chose to have free will. Maybe God picks and chooses who he influences such to lead Humanity in the direction he wants.  It might just be a poor human assumption that we think God, being all powerful chooses to actually wield that power in everything we do.  Here's the one thing I had a problem with your posts in this thread. When everyone was discussing it all you did was just say, "Well there is evidence out there that counters what religious people said.", not literally quoting but paraphrasing it a bit.  Still, you never actually posted this evidence. Are we to just assume you are correct in this evidence, or you actually have evidence?  Pretty much this.  I feel that agnostic fits me because I actually enjoy these discussions. I like hashing out ideas and concepts. Yet in most cases they are just ideas and concepts not facts. If someone chooses to believe in something that isn't factual, or hasn't been proven then that is absolutely fine. That is what faith is. Honestly I find it fascinating that people can have such deep faith like that.

I was joking with the meme. I thought that would be pretty obvious.... And to @14ledo81 : Thanks for your great analysis of what my "true intentions were." Also, and VERY MUCH to the contrary, I did not underestimate anyone. In fact, the opposite is the reason for the recent madness. I actually highly OVERESTIMATED the theists on here, unfortunately.

[mvmac]

You're provoking another poster into a retaliatory response. It added nothing to the thread and was intended to get an equal or greater response. My post is a reminder to all, including you, to stick to the subject and behave like the mature adults you all think you are.

Right, please keep it civl guys.

[Duff McGee]

Ok, after a few very long conversations and a few pm messages I was reminded of what it was like when I was a very, very devout theist. God was my entire world. Theists believe questions are attacks and even though they venture onto a thread like this of their own accord, feel the need to attack and scold atheists for being rude and disrespectful. I had wondered why many of the atheists on here have chosen to stay out of the thread. Now I know. They explained it to me and I agree with them. To have a debate, people have to understand logic and the simple concepts of what debate actually is. While many of the theists on here may be intelligent, it doesn't mean they aren't ignorant. Up until a year ago I lived with similar ignorance though I had achieved much intellectually in other areas of my life. The reason for this is confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. I guess what I didn't get is that merely (and politely) asking for one piece of evidence would be taken as a great attack against religion. I have now learned something and that is at least somewhat valuable for the future.

[Pretzel]

I would like for you to please point out any attacks you have seen in this thread using the multiquote function (though I suppose multiquote would imply there were multiple to begin with). The only thing I have seen that could be construed as an attack is the comment by Turtleback about sticking to golf. In fact, the only other ones I can find myself come from you, which I will add in a spoiler below in no particular order, which I will edit as I find more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunther

I recommend you stick to golf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

Dunning Kruger effect in full force on this thread. Interesting what group think, cognitive dissonance, conformation bias, and the Dunning Kruger effect can produce.

No wonder only theists really flock to these threads. Atheists have learned better than to talk you people that don't even understand the very basics of logic. I'll leave you all (so I don't get banned bc apparently sarcasm is forbidden when you are a meanie atheist) to your self congratulatory circle jerk. But in the meantime, here is a very powerful meme.

Originally Posted by turtleback

You know, when you first came here I thought you were a pretty decent poster.

But then your plan worked.

To have a debate, both sides need to respond to the points that the other side has brought up. Thus far you have ignored any points made by those with a contradictory viewpoint to yours, while restating the same questions and cries for the theists to provide evidence.

The proper term for such a "discussion" would be argument (" an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one") , not debate (" argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner") . The term debate implies that both sides are being civil towards each other and making appropriate responses to the other side's argument rather than discounting their point of view entirely.

The reason for this is you appear to have a selection bias. You brush aside any points or questions directed towards you by theists in favor of you rallying cry of, "Give me proof!" accompanied by a number of irrelevant memes (some of which have been flawed themselves).

I still am patiently waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that archaeologists now doubt the existence of Jesus. Please let us know when you have a source for your claim.

[Duff McGee]

I would like for you to please point out any attacks you have seen in this thread using the multiquote function (though I suppose multiquote would imply there were multiple to begin with). The only thing I have seen that could be construed as an attack is the comment by Turtleback about sticking to golf. To have a debate, both sides need to respond to the points that the other side has brought up. Thus far you have ignored any points made by those with a contradictory viewpoint to yours, while restating the same questions and cries for the theists to provide evidence. The proper term for such a "discussion" would be argument ("[COLOR=222222]an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one")[/COLOR], not debate ("[COLOR=222222]argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner")[/COLOR]. The term debate implies that both sides are being civil towards each other and making appropriate responses to the other side's argument rather than discounting their point of view entirely. The reason for this is you appear to have a selection bias. You brush aside any points or questions directed towards you by theists in favor of you rallying cry of, "Give me proof!" accompanied by a number of irrelevant memes (some of which have been flawed themselves).  I still am patiently waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that archaeologists now doubt the existence of Jesus. Please let us know when you have a source for your claim.

Pretzel: you are different. That's why I said "most." There are a few that I will not name but should be pretty obvious that just could not grasp the thread or even understand what some of the atheists were saying. It got very tiring. You were treating this thread as it should be treated and responded appropriately at every turn. It is a few of the very vocal others that made it not worth the time. You have to get past a basic floor to get into deeper conversations and that was where the thread was going to go. You would have been a great person to discuss this with and I appreciate that.

[Pretzel]

Nowhere in your original post can I find the word "most". If you don't believe me, use ctrl-f yourself.

Ok, after a few very long conversations and a few pm messages I was reminded of what it was like when I was a very, very devout theist. God was my entire world.

Theists believe questions are attacks and even though they venture onto a thread like this of their own accord, feel the need to attack and scold atheists for being rude and disrespectful.

I had wondered why many of the atheists on here have chosen to stay out of the thread. Now I know. They explained it to me and I agree with them.

To have a debate, people have to understand logic and the simple concepts of what debate actually is. While many of the theists on here may be intelligent, it doesn't mean they aren't ignorant. Up until a year ago I lived with similar ignorance though I had achieved much intellectually in other areas of my life.

The reason for this is confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. I guess what I didn't get is that merely (and politely) asking for one piece of evidence would be taken as a great attack against religion. I have now learned something and that is at least somewhat valuable for the future.

[Duff McGee]

Nowhere in your original post can I find the word "most". If you don't believe me, use ctrl-f yourself.

Sorry, apparently I said "many," not "most." But throughout my posting history on this site, like I did just now, I can admit when I make a mistake or am wrong.

[Lihu]

[quote name="Pretzel" url="/t/84478/religion-vs-atheism-thread/150#post_1201572"]Nowhere in your original post can I find the word "most". If you don't believe me, use ctrl-f yourself.

Sorry, apparently I said "many," not "most." But throughout my posting history on this site, like I did just now, I can admit when I make a mistake or am wrong. [/quote] ROFL. :-D

[Duff McGee]

ROFL. :-D

Show me where I have not admitted I was wrong where I was objectively wrong. You can think I'm wrong but that doesn't actually mean it is so. Edit: and this has been about the extent of the responses I've received so far and why I'm going to now stop notifications.

[newtogolf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

Ok, after a few very long conversations and a few pm messages I was reminded of what it was like when I was a very, very devout theist. God was my entire world.Theists believe questions are attacks and even though they venture onto a thread like this of their own accord, feel the need to attack and scold atheists for being rude and disrespectful.

I don't think you were rude your disrespectful you are just horrible at debating.  Your posts drip with arrogance as though you're superior because you read a few books, learned some fancy terms and decided there wasn't a God,  "You remembered what it was like..."  I remembered what it was like when I was a young kid who thought I knew everything, guess what I was wrong and you are wrong.  You have a lot more living to do before you can claim expertise in anything.

In the short time you've been here you've claimed to be an expert in relationships (despite being married for less that 5 years)  and now an expert on all theologies and why people are idiots for believing in them though at one time I assume you did believe in a God.

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

I had wondered why many of the atheists on here have chosen to stay out of the thread. Now I know. They explained it to me and I agree with them.

To have a debate, people have to understand logic and the simple concepts of what debate actually is. While many of the theists on here may be intelligent, it doesn't mean they aren't ignorant. Up until a year ago I lived with similar ignorance though I had achieved much intellectually in other areas of my life.
.

As @Pretzel stated, you don't debate, you get on your soapbox with your one point of view and pound that point of view without considering any other points of view.  You did this in the significant other thread and lost ball rule thread and until @iacas intervened, you refused to relent  It is for these reasons and a lack of maturity that you are in fact not a very good debater.  Here are some comments (none made by me) about your method of debating in the Lost Ball Rule is Stupid thread; http://thesandtrap.com/t/83618/lost-ball-rule-is-stupid/360_30#post_1191475

Quote:

• Let's stop with the word games. You've put words in people's mouths with the whole "apparently we are stupid" stuff, and you're doing it now with "sternly." I haven't even posted a ton in this thread. I'm stating my case, my opinion. Let's stop with the ascribing of tone to text that you can't hear, please.
• There you with the word games again. Just stop. The other person who agrees with you is not the only other person viewing things "objectively" or not assuming things or "reading into" things. I've directly asked you, for example, what the relevance of PGA Tour players is, and you've objectively refused to answer to this point. True statement?
• I like a good debate, but I don't care for the dramatics where one subtly accuses another of being "stern" or non-objective, or whatever. And at the end of the day, what is in my sig is true.
• These short responses that ignore the meat of the post may work in court but they're noticed here. Particularly when you regularly ignore direct questions. Let's also try to avoid phrasing stuff in ways that imply they're fact when they are not.

These tactics you used in that thread are the same ones you used here.  I didn't want to waste any more time to go into the "Significant Other" thread to pull some out of there.   See how I'm addressing all of your points individually, that is how one has an intellectual debate.   You make point and I'm countering them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

The reason for this is confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. I guess what I didn't get is that merely (and politely) asking for one piece of evidence would be taken as a great attack against religion. I have now learned something and that is at least somewhat valuable for the future.

You in fact suffer from confirmation bias in that you ignored every counter point that was made to you unless they showed you one piece of evidence that you already ready know doesn't exist.   I have no issue if you want to attack religion in general, it's when you attack individuals and their beliefs that I felt the need to step in.

You need to grow up, the I'm taking my ball and going home pity party is getting old.

[Duff McGee]

I don't think you were rude your disrespectful you are just horrible at debating.  Your posts drip with arrogance as though you're superior because you read a few books, learned some fancy terms and decided there wasn't a God,  "You remembered what it was like..."  I remembered what it was like when I was a young kid who thought I knew everything, guess what I was wrong and you are wrong.  You have a lot more living to do before you can claim expertise in anything. In the short time you've been here you've claimed to be an expert in relationships (despite being married for less that 5 years)  and now an expert on all theologies and why people are idiots for believing in them though at one time I assume you did believe in a God.    As @Pretzel stated, you don't debate, you get on your soapbox with your one point of view and pound that point of view without considering any other points of view.  You did this in the significant other thread and lost ball rule thread and until @iacas intervened, you refused to relent  It is for these reasons and a lack of maturity that you are in fact not a very good debater.  Here are some comments (none made by me) about your method of debating in the Lost Ball Rule is Stupid thread; [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/83618/lost-ball-rule-is-stupid/360_30#post_1191475]http://thesandtrap.com/t/83618/lost-ball-rule-is-stupid/360_30#post_1191475[/URL] These tactics you used in that thread are the same ones you used here.  I didn't want to waste any more time to go into the "Significant Other" thread to pull some out of there.   See how I'm addressing all of your points individually, that is how one has an intellectual debate.   You make point and I'm countering them. You in fact suffer from confirmation bias in that you ignored every counter point that was made to you unless they showed you one piece of evidence that you already ready know doesn't exist.   I have no issue if you want to attack religion in general, it's when you attack individuals and their beliefs that I felt the need to step in. You need to grow up, the I'm taking my ball and going home pity party is getting old.

It's funny. I knew I wouldn't have to go back and show all the ad homs that have been aimed at me bc this guy would come in with more of his normal blather. Newtogolf is the current spokesman for the Dunning Kruger Effect. I guarantee that a very big portion of the priests' responses that we were supposed to hear about had to do with this guy. It's interesting that the one claiming others are arrogant has hit me as the most arrogant and uninformed poster on this entire site over and over again, thread after thread.

[newtogolf]

It's funny. I knew I wouldn't have to go back and show all the ad homs that have been aimed at me bc this guy would come in with more of his normal blather. Newtogolf is the current spokesman for the Dunning Kruger Effect.

I guarantee that a very big portion of the priests' responses that we were supposed to hear about had to do with this guy. It's interesting that the one claiming others are arrogant has hit me as the most arrogant and uninformed poster on this entire site over and over again, thread after thread.

No need to worry about me any longer Duff, this is my last post in the thread.  Life is too short, one day you'll realize that.

[Golfingdad]

It's funny. I knew I wouldn't have to go back and show all the ad homs that have been aimed at me bc this guy would come in with more of his normal blather. Newtogolf is the current spokesman for the Dunning Kruger Effect.

I guarantee that a very big portion of the priests' responses that we were supposed to hear about had to do with this guy. It's interesting that the one claiming others are arrogant has hit me as the most arrogant and uninformed poster on this entire site over and over again, thread after thread.

Come on, man,  Slow down for a second and take a breath.  Take notice of the fact that there isn't a single person here arguing alongside you (a fallacy in itself - yes I recognize that - but it is telling nonetheless) yet there are Muslims, Christians, Agnostics, even some other Atheists perhaps, and perhaps some others, pretty much in complete harmony, disagreeing with you.

Do you honestly think that you are that much smarter than ALL of us??

[14ledo81]

[QUOTE name="Duff McGee" url="/t/84478/religion-vs-atheism-thread/150_30#post_1201610"] It's funny. I knew I wouldn't have to go back and show all the ad homs that have been aimed at me bc this guy would come in with more of his normal blather. Newtogolf is the current spokesman for the Dunning Kruger Effect. I guarantee that a very big portion of the priests' responses that we were supposed to hear about had to do with this guy. It's interesting that the one claiming others are arrogant has hit me as the most arrogant and uninformed poster on this entire site over and over again, thread after thread.[/QUOTE] Come on, man,  Slow down for a second and take a breath.  Take notice of the fact that there isn't a single person here arguing alongside you (a fallacy in itself - yes I recognize that - but it is telling nonetheless) yet there are Muslims, Christians, Agnostics, even some other Atheists perhaps, and perhaps some others, pretty much in complete harmony, disagreeing with you. Do you honestly think that you are that much smarter than ALL of us??

He is probably smarter than me, but "my boys" are "wicked smaht"....