Chip Credit Cards

[saevel25]

I found out recently that if a retailers don't require the use of chip style credit cards,that the retailer will be held fully liable for any losses due to credit card fraud.

The major problem is I don't think the credit card companies have done a good enough job in migrating to the new system From one poll 90-95% of American retailers are not prepared for the switch over this Thursday (October 1st).

One survey says that up to 27% could possibly be ready by Thursday. Another issue is that only 40% of card holders have the new chip in their cards.

I don't mind the chips. If they are more safe then that is a good thing. I think it's kinda douchy to put all that liability on the retailers when the migration to the new system has been tough. I could understand if 10% of retailers are holding out because they are lazy. You a good majority of them just not ready. That sounds more like the credit card companies have done a half-ass job in getting them ready.

[Gator Hazard]

What I don't understand is how the chip offers the consumer more protection.  I have seen people pull their cards out, and insert them and continue with their transaction in not so different a manner as they would before.  How does having a chip in the card offer more protection against fraud, possession and prevention are everything.  Possession of an active card allows you to purchase goods and services, prevention being if you lost your card you can have it cancelled, and that retailers should be asking to see identification when the card is used.

Now, if they really wanted to get savvy, they could have the chip in the card and a spot on the other end of the card where you place your fingertip.  The machine would then send the signal from chip to finger touchpad on card and back into the system to verify that the correct person is using the card at that time.

[saevel25]

What I don't understand is how the chip offers the consumer more protection.  I have seen people pull their cards out, and insert them and continue with their transaction in not so different a manner as they would before.  How does having a chip in the card offer more protection against fraud, possession and prevention are everything.

Its very very hard to duplicate a chip. With a magnetic strip it's very easy to use a skimmer and copy a credit card. With the chip you would have to physically create that chip. So it's just much tougher to create copied credit cards. It doesn't add protection in terms of online payments.

If the card was actually physically stolen and you didn't go to the bank and shut it down. Then they could use it like any other card unless it was a Chip & Pin versus. Then they would need a pin number to complete the transaction. Most of the credit cards still require a signature for transactions over $25 dollars. I never though the signature part had any significant security feature.

In the end, it's highly unlikely the card could actually be copied like the typical magnetic strip cards.

[Gator Hazard]

Its very very hard to duplicate a chip. With a magnetic strip it's very easy to use a skimmer and copy a credit card. With the chip you would have to physically create that chip. So it's just much tougher to create copied credit cards. It doesn't add protection in terms of online payments.

If the card was actually physically stolen and you didn't go to the bank and shut it down. Then they could use it like any other card unless it was a Chip & Pin versus. Then they would need a pin number to complete the transaction. Most of the credit cards still require a signature for transactions over $25 dollars. I never though the signature part had any significant security feature.

In the end, it's highly unlikely the card could actually be copied like the typical magnetic strip cards.

Thank you, that is why they did it, I forgot and was trying to remember.  The security feature is to protect them from fraud.  Nothing wrong with that and understandable.

Unless transactions are disputed they never look at signatures.  My wife and I like sign with smiley faces when it is electronic, doesn't hurt anything.

Thanks again

[Kenny Lee]

I have four credit cards that I use regularly.

Only one has a chip.

Generally, i'm not concerned about fraud. I review my statements closely. If there are any charges that aren't mine, I simply call the credit card company, and they are promptly removed.

Debit cards do not have the same consumer protections. I'd never use a debit card.

[DaveP043]

I understand that the chip-and-pin cards have been common in Europe for a relatively long time.  I wonder if some of our European members could weigh in on their experiences with credit card fraud using these cards.

I found out recently that if a retailers don't require the use of chip style credit cards,that the retailer will be held fully liable for any losses due to credit card fraud.

Sadly, I'm afraid that even fewer retailers would have spent the money required to facilitate the use of the chip cards without a "stick" to push them.  That's just a personal feeling, I'm not in a retail business so I really don't have direct knowledge in the issue.  I DO have two new cards in my wallet (one personal, one a company card) with the chips, but I'm not sure I've selected a PIN yet.

[saevel25]

Thank you, that is why they did it, I forgot and was trying to remember.  The security feature is to protect them from fraud.  Nothing wrong with that and understandable.

Unless transactions are disputed they never look at signatures.  My wife and I like sign with smiley faces when it is electronic, doesn't hurt anything.

Thanks again

I am not entirely sure if the banks don't look at those signed receipts if there is a big case of fraud to prove you didn't go there. I am sure they have to investigate to some degree.

I never use my Debit card to buy anything. Banks are not required to reimburse you if your Debit card get stolen. They are less protected.

Sadly, I'm afraid that even fewer retailers would have spent the money required to facilitate the use of the chip cards without a "stick" to push them.  That's just a personal feeling, I'm not in a retail business so I really don't have direct knowledge in the issue.  I DO have two new cards in my wallet (one personal, one a company card) with the chips, but I'm not sure I've selected a PIN yet.

I think the PIN is only for the Debit cards. I've had my Credit card one for a while now and I have never had to put in a PIN or create a PIN.

[newtogolf]

The chips will help reduce fraud for in person purchases at brick and mortar businesses but have no impact on online shopping.   Gas stations will not be required to upgrade their card readers until 2017 so they will also be an area where fraud will continue.

I'd like to see the US move to the chip and PIN technology for credit card purchases to reduce the use of signature cards.

[iacas]

Yeah, this isn't Chip and PIN stuff, it's just a chip that verifies the stripe data. Old readers still just swipe - the new ones are supposed to read both the chip and the stripe (or maybe just the chip?) because that's something that's not easily stolen/duplicated.

Europe is about, what, a decade ahead of the U.S. on this?

I have one chipped CC (out of about three that I use). I just got one (that I shredded as I never use it) a month ago that didn't even have a chip.

[DaveP043]

Europe is about, what, a decade ahead of the U.S. on this?

At least a decade, I think the chip and pin cards were in general use in Ireland when I was there in 2006.  Even now they can still take the swipe and sign cards, but it seemed to be mostly the tourists using those.

[JazzFatCat]

I thought this was a pretty decent article about the cards: http://www.vox.com/2015/9/29/9415325/emv-credit-debit

We've been using the chip cards in Canada for 2 or 3 years. I'm surprised the USA is behind the times on this.

[Gator Hazard]

At least a decade, I think the chip and pin cards were in general use in Ireland when I was there in 2006.  Even now they can still take the swipe and sign cards, but it seemed to be mostly the tourists using those.

We are still catching up with them on better currency that cannot be counterfeit as easily, no surprise we are also behind on the cards.

[kpaulhus]

Walmart, being the largest US retailer, has this tech in their stores now. its kind of aggravating to use, but I bet you Walmart is also one of the largest retailers that deals with CC fraud.

[newtogolf]

The US is well behind many of the other developed nations with regards to credit cards and cellular service.

[Lihu]

The US is well behind many of the other developed nations with regards to credit cards and cellular service.

It's funny that even in a super rural place in China with dirt roads they used the chip credit cards. Everyone I saw seemed to be using the chips and had cell phones with data. A resident driving one of those local trike single piston "taxis" was texting his girlfriend in Chinese. All the Chinese tourists from the cities were taking pictures and tapping their friends constantly. . .even an older woman. . .

Restaurants/cafes/rest stops took only cash, but the food was cheap and good. . .

[tasker]

At least a decade, I think the chip and pin cards were in general use in Ireland when I was there in 2006.  Even now they can still take the swipe and sign cards, but it seemed to be mostly the tourists using those.

Pretty sure they were chip and Pin in 2002 when I was there - Europe is miles ahead in this regard.  In Canada we have been using since 2006/7/8.

Not sure why the US would only go to Chip though - the PIN is what protects people.  The Chip basically, as said, is harder to copy, therefore protecting only the card company.  With Chip someone can still steal your card and use it by signing anything - with a PIN (unless it is written on the card - don't laugh - common occurrence in early days), no such luck.

[bubble]

the credit car chip is a french invention from 1974 yet little update up to now on payment technologie.

Why ? some is interested such as the major credit card companies (visa, master card etc...) as well as banks who take a fee for every paiement.

[Yukari]

I've used cc with chip.  Basically, you insert the cc into a reader and wait.  This makes it hard to duplicate the cc.  It's same as old magnetic strip but the key being difficult to duplicate the cc.

On the other hand, Best Buy is now accepting Apple Pay or other NFC system.  I wish they would all go to Apple Pay or NFC system.  With fingerprint verification, it is so much easier.