For those who cast

[Rainmaker]

I've been working on my swing a lot lately in my garage . .recording myself hitting balls into a net.  I'm seeing a lot of good things. .my swing is pretty on-plane but I am casting late in the downswing.  I especially notice that when my club is parallel to the ground, my hands are well behind my right thigh.  I've tried some things to fix it with little success. . but this is not about that . .this is about what I just tried which was to rig my video so the ball is out of frame and then make a swing a few inches *above* the ball.  What!?!  

I kind of had a suspicion of what I would see on video but what I did see amazed me . .my hands were right in the middle of my right thigh . .exactly where they should be.  The amount of lag was unbelievable. There was no flip or chicken-wing.  I looked like a tour player (no . .not really . .but compared to when I actually hit a ball, yes).  

 

All I can say is that was interesting.  I have no idea how or if I can use it to stop casting but at least I know I'm physically capable of it.  If you record your swing and you strugggle with casting . .you should try this sometime.  

[Patch]

Whats the height of your garage ceiling? I know a guy who due to the extreme cold practiced all winter hitting into a net. When he came out of hibernation and played outdoors he had developed a casting problem. His garage ceiling was to low for his normal swing and he had adapted to it. Took him a while undo the problem he had developed.

As for curing your casting problem there is already a lot of info already on TST on that subject. 

[billchao]

@Rainmaker, a practice swing is not the same as a real swing. Part of why you cast is because you have to get the clubhead to the ball; you're doing something in your swing that requires you to dump your wrist angles to hit it. Swinging without a ball (or above it, in your case) is going to give you a different look simply because you don't have to hit the ball.

I wouldn't recommend practicing swinging above the ball. It might train you to lift or shallow out too much and could cause contact issues.

[Rainmaker]

I didn't say to practice it . . I just said to do it once on video.  I didn't say it would help, either . .I just said it was interesting.  

[Dave325]

This might seem a bit odd, but something I do is.... Try to hit the "imaginary ball) that is two inches in front of the actual ball. This helps me shift the weight forward and helps to hit the actual ball first, then ground and get the proper lag. Just a thought on my little trick to get the shaft inline at impact.

[Rainmaker]

Yeah . .I'm familiar with that one. Sometimes I'll even put a real ball in front and try to hit them both.  What I thought was interesting about the video exercise is that it pretty much proves to me that 

a.  I'm focused on the ball, not the target.  My release is into the ground.  

b.  It's mental, not physical why I cast the club.  What I mean by that is that I have the wrong "idea", it's not that I'm physically incapable of it .. which I honestly was starting to wonder about.  I'm not very flexible.  

I'm gonna go see my pro.  HOPEFULLY he will want to work on it and not just tell me to forget about it work on something else, instead.  I think I'm getting to the point where I can work on that . .ie . .the rest of my swing is in basic working order . .but we'll see.  I defer to his judgement . .has definitely worked out for me so far. 

 

 

[mvmac]

14 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

All I can say is that was interesting.  I have no idea how or if I can use it to stop casting but at least I know I'm physically capable of it.  If you record your swing and you strugggle with casting . .you should try this sometime.  

Casting is just a result of one or more pieces that are off that occur well before impact. Fix the cause, not the effect.

[Rainmaker]

8 hours ago, mvmac said:

Casting is just a result of one or more pieces that are off that occur well before impact. Fix the cause, not the effect.

I totally agree . .although "fix the cause" is usually a little more difficult than said.  

In my case, my swing is essentially sound . .I swing on plane, my impact position is good (from the back view).  

I've been thinking some about all this and I think my issue is really just that I need to put the release "out there" . . .ie . .out in front of me.  So...how do you do that?  I found that I can get closer to it by either trying to turn more in the downswing . .particularly to keep turning after impact.  OR . .if I grab the feel of throwing the club at my target.  Both of those things make improvements on video.  

I created a little drill for myself that I think is pretty OK (I don't claim to have invented it and I'm not a golf teacher so I definitely won't argue as to it's usefulness . .except just to say I kind of like it):

1.  Address the ball and make a baseball type swing . .at baseball bat height.  Really feel how the "bat" works during the transition between the back and the down swing.  

2.  Lower that swing half-way down to the ball.  Get the same feel.

3.  Lower that swing to about 1 inch off the ball . .get that same feel.

4.  Hit the ball trying to have that same feeling.  

Doing the above on video has shown me that the 4th swing is usually a pretty good one with less casting and better lag . .anywhere from a slight improvement over my current swing - to almost perfect.  

Throughout my learning the swing, I've gone back and forth between using "feel" ideas (ie - throwing the club) and "mechanical" ideas (ie - turning more).  My instructor is a hardcore "mechanical" guy.   I don't think he would like the above drill . .I don't think he'd hate it .. but he'll probably have something else he'd rather have me do.  

I'm going to go for a lesson the second week of December . .the soonest I could get in with the holidays and all . .I'll post back with what he tells me.  I can pretty much guarantee you that it won't be anything like "Wow, Rainmaker, you solved the world's casting problems".   

 

 

 

 

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

although "fix the cause" is usually a little more difficult than said.

Absolutely, never said it was easy, just don't waste your time working on fixing the compensations.

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

I've been thinking some about all this and I think my issue is really just that I need to put the release "out there" . . .ie . .out in front of me.  So...how do you do that?

I'd guess it's probably something else. You're evaluating the "release" and where it is, you should be looking at WHY the release is off. The release just "happens" with good golf swings because the golfer has made a good backswing pivot (Key #1) and properly sequenced the downswing. 

I'd suggest starting a swing thread and posting some videos.

[Rainmaker]

15 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Absolutely, never said it was easy, just don't waste your time working on fixing the compensations.

I'd guess it's probably something else. You're evaluating the "release" and where it is, you should be looking at WHY the release is off. The release just "happens" with good golf swings because the golfer has made a good backswing pivot (Key #1) and properly sequenced the downswing. 

I'd suggest starting a swing thread and posting some videos.

 

I will definitely create a swing thread some point soon . . but for right now here are 2 videos showing just what I'm talking about here. 

This is my regular swing .. face-on, hitting the ball.  Sorry for bad lighting and poorly dressed golfer.  Also sorry you can't see the ball . .but my space is not big enough as it is currenty configured.  You can hear it, though.

 

And here is me swinging just above the ball.  Notice the improved takeaway and impact position . . if only there was a ball there, lol.

 

 

 

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

In my case, my swing is essentially sound . .

You pick up your head. . .still watching the videos to see more. . .

[Rainmaker]

Just now, Lihu said:

Without publishing a video for everyone to see, no one else can really see what's going on.

see post directly above this one, lol.  

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

see post directly above this one, lol.  

See my comment above.

Plus, it helps if you are hitting a ball. In most cases people don't start doing bad stuff until there's a ball present. I think @billchao mentioned some reasons. . .

[mvmac]

19 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I will definitely create a swing thread some point soon . . but for right now here are 2 videos showing just what I'm talking about here. 

Like I said, the issue is probably stemming from pieces that are off well before impact. You turn your shoulders way too level. Severely limits your turn and you move your head back. Going to create problems on the downswing. Be sure to film yourself hitting a ball when you post more videos.

[Rainmaker]

Thanks for the input, I can see what you're saying about my shoulders being too level.

 Just to be clear . .first video is me hitting a ball.  Second video is me swinging a few inches above the ball.  What I like about the second video vs the first one is both the takeaway and the position my hands are in when the club is parallel in the downswing.   

 

[billchao]

14 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Just to be clear . .first video is me hitting a ball.  Second video is me swinging a few inches above the ball.  What I like about the second video vs the first one is both the takeaway and the position my hands are in when the club is parallel in the downswing.

I think you're missing the point. The second video isn't very useful because you're not hitting a ball. You're not doing the same motions.

[Rainmaker]

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

I think you're missing the point. The second video isn't very useful because you're not hitting a ball. You're not doing the same motions.

Well I agree with that . .it's only interesting by comparison to the one where I actually hit the ball.  I wish I was doing more of the motions I'm doing when I'm not hitting a ball when I actually am hitting one.  

I just wanted to point it out because it seemed like some of the responses thought I was not hitting a ball in either video and you can't actually see the ball in the first one (couldn't get it in the frame).  

 

I'm definitely going to work on shoulder tilt between now and my next lesson.  That was a good tip - I should probably send mvmac a check, lol.    

[mvmac]

49 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I wish I was doing more of the motions I'm doing when I'm not hitting a ball when I actually am hitting one.  

That's basically the way every golfer feels 

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

 Just to be clear . .first video is me hitting a ball.

Yeah I looked at both of them, here's the backswing where you're hitting the ball. Similar position and head also goes back.