Trends: Handicap / Driving Distance / Time as a golfer anonymous poll

[TimS65]

I tend to play 9 holes after work during summer a couple of nights a week and 9 at the weekends plus range time - for the past couple of years. Less frequent the previous year when I started. I average 250 with driver, but have too many blow up holes 3/4 over par. That ruins my score. Tend to be 45 to 50 for 9 holes. Turned 50 this year.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

The poll question is poorly worded. It asks how far do you drive, not what is your average driving distance. Even the pros keep two different metrics on this, though I agree that average drive is more important to scoring as it shows your ability to hit driver even on tight holes.

Yes, I agree it was a little ambiguous for many reasons, but once you put handicap into the picture only average makes any sense. 237 yards on average 65F which includes mishits, hooks, duffs, trees and whatever would give you a decent drive in the 270-280 range (carry plus roll).

On top of this, if the OP meant carry which makes even more sense, that puts the 225-250 range roughly between 88mph to 98mph. That range pretty much covers a very wide range of handicaps.

So, if you specify carry why not just specify swing speed which makes even more sense? That way you take launch out of the equation.

This is why I linked the other thread. . .

[Dave2512]

Swing speed represents potential more than reality. My driver swing speed ranges 99-105 but my average drive a mere 236. I don't lack speed I lack skill.

I play with a guy in league that can't break 90 that hit a few unbelievably long drives he also hit unbelievably bad drives, sub 100 yard drives. 

If your handicap is legit and you know what your actual average is this is what you really do on the course.

Your "good" stuff doesn't matter much because the less skilled you are the more frequent you hit less than good shots. People aren't realistic about what they actually do, self reporting is unreliable.,

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Dave2512 said:

Swing speed represents potential more than reality. My driver swing speed ranges 99-105 but my average drive a mere 236. I don't lack speed I lack skill.

I play with a guy in league that can't break 90 that hit a few unbelievably long drives he also hit unbelievably bad drives, sub 100 yard drives. 

If your handicap is legit and you know what your actual average is this is what you really do on the course.

Your "good" stuff doesn't matter much because the less skilled you are the more frequent you hit less than good shots. People aren't realistic about what they actually do, self reporting is unreliable.,

Agree, that's where having lots of playing partners comes into play.

[jsgolfer]

I'm a 5.0 handicap, hit the driver somewhere around 250-260 (Used to hit it farther when I was younger), have definitely played more than a 1000 rounds over the last 35 years, I'm 51 now. Played right around 375 rounds in the last three years alone.  Lowest handicap was  0.9 in 1996 when I was out of work after getting my Master's Degree and hovered somewhere between 2-8 over the last 20 years once I started working, had kids and then significant others that didn't play golf.  

[natureboy]

4 hours ago, Lihu said:

Yes, I agree it was a little ambiguous for many reasons, but once you put handicap into the picture only average makes any sense. 237 yards on average 65F which includes mishits, hooks, duffs, trees and whatever would give you a decent drive in the 270-280 range (carry plus roll).

On top of this, if the OP meant carry which makes even more sense, that puts the 225-250 range roughly between 88mph to 98mph. That range pretty much covers a very wide range of handicaps.

So, if you specify carry why not just specify swing speed which makes even more sense? That way you take launch out of the equation.

This is why I linked the other thread. . .

I disagree with those numbers. Average driving distance of 240 equates with a 'good drive' (upper 25%) of 260 yards total. Maybe the ball rolls forever on the fairways out in CA.

 

3 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

I play with a guy in league that can't break 90 that hit a few unbelievably long drives he also hit unbelievably bad drives, sub 100 yard drives. 

My game resembles this more that I'd like - but it's getting better.

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I disagree with those numbers. Average driving distance of 240 equates with a 'good drive' (upper 25%) of 260 yards total. Maybe the ball rolls forever on the fairways out in CA.

I'm not basing the drive distance off roll or anything, I am just noting that some people drive 200 and 280 yards and everything in between and it probably averages to 240 yards. If someone averages 250 yards, I'm pretty confident that they knock some of them to 300 yards.

BTW, I am using the average drive meaning the average of all drives, and not just the good drives.

[natureboy]

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I'm not basing the drive distance off roll or anything, I am just noting that some people drive 200 and 280 yards and everything in between and it probably averages to 240 yards. If someone averages 250 yards, I'm pretty confident that they knock some of them to 300 yards.

That's a very wide normal distribution. One thing you forget is that as players get better and average distance and consistency both increase (the former partly influenced by the latter) their distance distribution curve / shot pattern gets tighter so this is true on average for lower handicaps who are longer and straighter. Someone who averages 250, but has a much higher index than you'd expect (like me only I don't average that far) may fit your expectation more closely due to scoring inconsistency from wildness, but with the potential to have a much lower HCP with swing improvements.

Edited December 10, 2015 by natureboy

[bkuehn1952]

For those who average over 225 yards off the tee and would have a lower handicap but for the "blow up" holes, how does one measure those drives that go O.B. or are lost?  I assume one would list an O.B. drive as -0- since one hits the next shot from essentially the same spot.  Same with lost balls.  If I had twelve (12) 250 yard drives and two (2) at -0-, my average would be 214 yards.

Or when one beats a drive O.B. or into the woods, does one estimate how far the ball went ("Wow, that must have gone 300 yards before it disappeared!!")?

Just curious about the methodology used.

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

For those who average over 225 yards off the tee and would have a lower handicap but for the "blow up" holes, how does one measure those drives that go O.B. or are lost?  I assume one would list an O.B. drive as -0- since one hits the next shot from essentially the same spot.  Same with lost balls.  If I had twelve (12) 250 yard drives and two (2) at -0-, my average would be 214 yards.

Or when one beats a drive O.B. or into the woods, does one estimate how far the ball went ("Wow, that must have gone 300 yards before it disappeared!!")?

Just curious about the methodology used.

I list the OB distances as where it went out, just like a lateral. Maybe that's wrong? I haven't gotten that many lately. Mostly lateral.

Do lost balls really count as a 0? I just lost one in a field of range balls the other day, but I saw it bounce. . .

[natureboy]

19 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

For those who average over 225 yards off the tee and would have a lower handicap but for the "blow up" holes, how does one measure those drives that go O.B. or are lost?  I assume one would list an O.B. drive as -0- since one hits the next shot from essentially the same spot.  Same with lost balls.  If I had twelve (12) 250 yard drives and two (2) at -0-, my average would be 214 yards.

Or when one beats a drive O.B. or into the woods, does one estimate how far the ball went ("Wow, that must have gone 300 yards before it disappeared!!")?

Just curious about the methodology used.

 

16 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I list the OB distances as where it went out, just like a lateral. Maybe that's wrong?

Do lost balls really count? I just lost one in a field of range balls the other day, but I saw it bounce. . .

 

Not positive, but I expect that the actual distance calculation is only done for the ball that is put in play. Stroked gained methodology captures the impact of lost and OB which is why it's superior to distance alone, but if I was calculating an average distance per attempt off the tee for my own purposes, I'd put goose egg.

Edited December 10, 2015 by natureboy

[shanksalot]

 I misread Number 3 and said 100-150 thinking you were asking per year. For the last 5 years it would be over 700 rounds.  I no longer keep a handicap but if I did it would fall in the 10-15 these days. I can hardly driver the ball out of my shadow so I said 200-225 yards. I also think age and years playing would have been an interesting part of the poll.  If you are looking for how many lifetime rounds I have played it is impossible to say since I have been playing since 1961. So I guess over 1000. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by shanksalot

[natureboy]

An interesting thing about the poll chart is that even on this site the distribution looks to be a log-normal rather than strictly normal distribution like with the USGA index numbers. In other words it has a long tail extending well out to the right (high HCPs) and the average HI will be toward the back side of the 'crest' rather than at the peak. Only for this site the tail seems oriented toward lower HCPs,

Edited December 10, 2015 by natureboy

[Dave2512]

18 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

For those who average over 225 yards off the tee and would have a lower handicap but for the "blow up" holes, how does one measure those drives that go O.B. or are lost?  I assume one would list an O.B. drive as -0- since one hits the next shot from essentially the same spot.  Same with lost balls.  If I had twelve (12) 250 yard drives and two (2) at -0-, my average would be 214 yards.

Or when one beats a drive O.B. or into the woods, does one estimate how far the ball went ("Wow, that must have gone 300 yards before it disappeared!!")?

Just curious about the methodology used.

This is where using Game Golf gives you the real picture. It shows you exactly what you are doing with your club averages and it tosses out the real bad and real good. I quickly learned it wasn't the odd OB shot or drive knocked down by a branch in my numbers making the average what it is. I have rounds where all drives are in play and sorting by the round on a typical day it's pretty close to the last 20 average.

Good days are better and bad days worse but it's close. What we really do, our averages are all over the place even when not in trouble. Typical day for me best to worst drive might have a difference of 80 yards with everything in between.

[Lihu]

12 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

This is where using Game Golf gives you the real picture. It shows you exactly what you are doing with your club averages and it tosses out the real bad and real good. I quickly learned it wasn't the odd OB shot or drive knocked down by a branch in my numbers making the average what it is. I have rounds where all drives are in play and sorting by the round on a typical day it's pretty close to the last 20 average.

Does it simply throw out the outlier data or does it do some analysis based upon GPS data as well?

 

13 minutes ago, natureboy said:

An interesting thing about the poll chart is that even on this site the distribution looks to be a log-normal rather than strictly normal distribution like with the USGA index numbers. In other words it has a long tail extending well out to the right (high HCPs) and the average HI will be toward the back side of the 'crest' rather than at the peak.

The handicap looks reasonably normal while distances are truncated at the bottom. I think it's mainly because most people don't think they drive 150-200 yards?

I would have created tighter distance ranges like: 150-160; 160-175; 175-200; 200-225; 225-235; 235-245; 245-255; 255-265; 265-275; over 275

 

20 minutes ago, natureboy said:

 

Not positive, but I expect that the actual distance calculation is only done for the ball that is put in play. Stroked gained methodology captures the impact of lost and OB which is why it's superior to distance alone, but if I was calculating an average distance per attempt off the tee for my own purposes, I'd put goose egg.

How is strokes gained actually calculated?

[Dave2512]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Does it simply throw out the outlier data or does it do some analysis based upon GPS data as well?

They explain it on the site but I can't log on for some reason so can't link to it. Everything is based on the tag locations and the typical range of dispersion for any club. Look at a TST members GG page. You will see what shots are in their averages, the graphic will have red dots for each club showing what in there. It will be evident the tagged shots for outside of that for whatever club isn't typical.

 

[natureboy]

10 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The handicap looks reasonably normal while distances are truncated at the bottom. I think it's mainly because most people don't think they drive 150-200 yards?

You could be right. Or it could be partly because there are more serious golfers on the site or newer guys with good distance, but undeveloped short games who are looking to improve and take better advantage of their length. Also most people estimate based on their 'good drives'. I don't plan on the tee for a skied ball or a 150 yard mis-hit. Does it affect my scoring, sure, but not my game management.

 

Quote

How is strokes gained actually calculated?

You subtract strokes to go (on the Broadie chart) at your drive landing area based on the distance to the pin from the strokes to go from the tee distance you drove from and subtract one for the stroke taken. Any OB shots you subtract a further 2 for the stroke and penalty.

Edited December 10, 2015 by natureboy

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, natureboy said:

You could be right. Or it could be partly because there are more serious golfers on the site or newer guys with good distance, but undeveloped short games who are looking to improve and take better advantage of their length. Also most people estimate based on their 'good drives'. I don't plan on the tee for a skied ball or a 150 yard mis-hit. Does it affect my scoring, sure, but not my game management.

That's what I am getting at. A simple average of all your drives affects your handicap pretty directly. Farther is always better, and that's why increasing the average is important for score.