Par 4's made reachable in two

[DrvFrShow]

It just looks like the course needs to extend the tee box on those two holes about 30 yds. It's fine to get out of our comfort zone periodically, but most people are looking at a bogey as a good score on those two holes, and I'd bet most score a DB.

[Dave2512]

5 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

It just looks like the course needs to extend the tee box on those two holes about 30 yds. It's fine to get out of our comfort zone periodically, but most people are looking at a bogey as a good score on those two holes, and I'd bet most score a DB.

Those holes aren't excessively long compared to the rest. He's a bogey plus golfer so he's looking at bogey on most every hole and that's okay. I make a bogey about at about 40% on holes shorter than that, usually par 3's.

[Fourputt]

24 minutes ago, 9wood said:

The one course I play has 2 par 4's over 400 yds - even from the senior tees - see below

 

I've never heard the middle tees called "senior" tees before.  Usually if a course has a tee set aimed at seniors, they are forward of the middle tees.  This is a case where they should change from those traditional colors and encourage seniors and juniors to play the forward tees, or use combo tees with a mix of the  red and white tees to create a course with yardage between 6195 and 5081.

That is a strangely set up course, with only one par 4 hole that is shorter from the white tees than from the blue tees.  It really isn't very "tee it forward" friendly.

[DrvFrShow]

I agree. I'd find a new course to play.

[No Mulligans]

11 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Those holes aren't excessively long compared to the rest. He's a bogey plus golfer so he's looking at bogey on most every hole and that's okay. I make a bogey about at about 40% on holes shorter than that, usually par 3's.

Exactly, if I expected to reach all the par 4's approaching with an iron then I wouldn't be a bogey golfer.  Just because you can't reach with an iron approach (or can't reach at all) doesn't mean you are on the wrong tees.  I ask, if you are having fun and keeping pace, what's the problem?

[DrvFrShow]

1 minute ago, No Mulligans said:

Exactly, if I expected to reach all the par 4's approaching with an iron then I wouldn't be a bogey golfer.  Just because you can't reach with an iron approach (or can't reach at all) doesn't mean you are on the wrong tees.  I ask, if you are having fun and keeping pace, what's the problem?

I bet you would still be a bogey golfer. Hitting an accurate approach shot with a 6 iron is more difficult than it looks. You should be able to have a chance of getting at least a nGIR with an iron shot on a par 4. A 230 yd drive + 170 yd 6 iron is 400 yds. Then the short game comes into play.

[No Mulligans]

6 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

You should be able to have a chance of getting at least a nGIR with an iron shot on a par 4. A 230 yd drive + 170 yd 6 iron is 400 yds. Then the short game comes into play.

Nope.  There is nothing wrong with having a couple of challenging holes on a course where, for me, a bogey feels like a par and a par feels like a birdie.

[DrvFrShow]

But if you're still struggling to get pars, which, let's face it, unless you're a 5 HC or under, pars and birdies are hard, a bogey is still not a bad score on a hole.

[9wood]

41 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I've never heard the middle tees called "senior" tees before.  Usually if a course has a tee set aimed at seniors, they are forward of the middle tees.  This is a case where they should change from those traditional colors and encourage seniors and juniors to play the forward tees, or use combo tees with a mix of the  red and white tees to create a course with yardage between 6195 and 5081.

That is a strangely set up course, with only one par 4 hole that is shorter from the white tees than from the blue tees.  It really isn't very "tee it forward" friendly.

Anyone who has followed my posts knows that I like a challenge. I don't want a course that is designed for bogey golfers like me just so that I can make par easier. I'm not even concerned with how many pars I make. I don't have an ego that needs to feed itself off of pars and birdies. How low my score and HC is doesn't even matter to me. The only thing that matters to me is a challenge. It's the little victories in the challenges that matters. Why do so many people want a course especially designed so they can make par. Do they need that for an ego trip?

Edited March 30, 2016 by 9wood

[No Mulligans]

2 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

But if you're still struggling to get pars, which, let's face it, unless you're a 5 HC or under, pars and birdies are hard, a bogey is still not a bad score on a hole.

The problem is that would eliminate some great courses.  By your logic I shouldn't play Torrey North (the easier of the two courses) even from the reds as I would be approaching greens with my 4 hybrid.  Torrey is a beautiful course, good rate, and 6 miles from my house.  It would make no sense not to play there.  And, I don't play from the reds, I'm perfectly happy playing from the whites and having to use my fairway woods.

[Dave2512]

Personally if I had to hit a bunch of long irons, hybrids and fairways to greens I wouldn't enjoy golf. From beyond 175 my dispersion and shot quality in general is horrific and so is every other golfer I play with right down to the low single digit guys in men's league. I want a chance to score even if I blow a drive. My driving is poor ATM, really poor more like a 15 handicap, but I still have a chance at nGIR, easily avg. 16 nGIR a round. Most men I see could move up a set or two.

[DrvFrShow]

1 hour ago, Dave2512 said:

Personally if I had to hit a bunch of long irons, hybrids and fairways to greens I wouldn't enjoy golf. From beyond 175 my dispersion and shot quality in general is horrific and so is every other golfer I play with right down to the low single digit guys in men's league. I want a chance to score even if I blow a drive. My driving is poor ATM, really poor more like a 15 handicap, but I still have a chance at nGIR, easily avg. 16 nGIR a round. Most men I see could move up a set or two.

Thank you. Come on people. Torrey Pines isn't for the "average golfer." It's a long course for a woman, too. Also I assume the price is going to keep all but your better players off the course. 9-woods' course is more for the average golfer. Golf is a game played on the same course by people of all skill levels. Par 4s should have tees set up so they're reachable in two shots. 

This means some things have to give. If you want to play 410+ yd par 4s on flat terrain play from the blues. The whites shouldn't have them. But if you think they should, and you think they should also have fast greens don't complain about slow play.

[SavvySwede]

1 hour ago, 9wood said:

Anyone who has followed my posts knows that I like a challenge. I don't want a course that is designed for bogey golfers like me just so that I can make par easier. I'm not even concerned with how many pars I make. I don't have an ego that needs to feed itself off of pars and birdies. How low my score and HC is doesn't even matter to me. The only thing that matters to me is a challenge. It's the little victories in the challenges that matters. Why do so many people want a course especially designed so they can make par. Do they need that for an ego trip?

Usually the big egos won't play the appropriate tees. The point of teeing it forward is to properly challenge all the aspects of your game. Since you can't reach a lot of greens in regulation you are only really challenging your short game. Shaping your approach shots, choosing which pins to go at, controlling approach distances, etc; these are different challenges that you are depriving yourself of because all you can do from that far back is advance the ball.

[9wood]

32 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Usually the big egos won't play the appropriate tees. The point of teeing it forward is to properly challenge all the aspects of your game. Since you can't reach a lot of greens in regulation you are only really challenging your short game. Shaping your approach shots, choosing which pins to go at, controlling approach distances, etc; these are different challenges that you are depriving yourself of because all you can do from that far back is advance the ball.

But I'm already playing the senior tees and teeing it forward. The only other solution is to use the women's tees, and that's not going to happen.

[No Mulligans]

45 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Thank you. Come on people. Torrey Pines isn't for the "average golfer." It's a long course for a woman, too. Also I assume the price is going to keep all but your better players off the course. 9-woods' course is more for the average golfer. Golf is a game played on the same course by people of all skill levels. Par 4s should have tees set up so they're reachable in two shots. 

This means some things have to give. If you want to play 410+ yd par 4s on flat terrain play from the blues. The whites shouldn't have them. But if you think they should, and you think they should also have fast greens don't complain about slow play.

The management at Torrey Pines certainly doesn't agree with you.

Just the facts... I'm pretty average for those playing Torrey North from the whites.  The Course rating from the whites 70.8/125.  The weekday rate for 18 holes on the North is $40 for City residents.  The scorecard recommends that the whites be played by men with handicaps from 13-25, women with handicaps from 0-9.

My more frequent golf is at easier courses.  But, because of the low rate, the challenge and the beauty of the course I get out to Torrey from time to time.  I think it's the best value in San Diego.  I avoid the South course though.

[SavvySwede]

16 minutes ago, 9wood said:

But I'm already playing the senior tees and teeing it forward. The only other solution is to use the women's tees, and that's not going to happen.

Like @Fourputt said, I wouldn't call those middle tees the senior tees. And "women's tees" is outdated terminology

[chilepepper]

If I'm on a new course I look at the score card and decide what tees I'll play. If I have to hit hybrid long iron into the majority of par 4's as a second shot I move up  to tees in the right range. Ego be damned, I'm there to have fun and I know my limits. I could care less what color or name each tee set has. It's yardage I'm concerned with

Edited March 31, 2016 by chilepepper

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, 9wood said:

But I'm already playing the senior tees and teeing it forward. The only other solution is to use the women's tees, and that's not going to happen.

The middle tees are not senior tees.  I thought I made that point earlier.  That course doesn't have what most would call senior tees.  You are playing the regular men's tees.