PGA Tour Players Not Marking Balls when In Position to Assist Another Player, #Backstopping

[Aflighter]

1 hour ago, brocks said:

I'm an old person, and have watched golf since the 50's, but I was recently out of the country for a couple of years and watched very little during that time.  When I came back last year, I saw some players not mark their ball, and I wondered what the heck was going on --- were they on the clock?  When I heard a commentator talk about backstopping, I literally couldn't believe it --- how on earth is that not a penalty?  

I still can't believe that players are not getting penalized for it.  You get penalized for giving advice, or indicating a line, and IMO backstopping is much worse. 

All I'm saying is I've watched long time and never heard about them saying anything about it until past year or so.They can call me ignorant all they want but don't get on me cause I've never heard them mention before.

[Shorty]

3 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

All I'm saying is I've watched long time and never heard about them saying anything about it until past year or so.They can call me ignorant all they want but don't get on me cause I've never heard them mention before.

I'll point it out again........It has only been happening for a short time. 

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

All I'm saying is I've watched long time and never heard about them saying anything about it until past year or so.They can call me ignorant all they want but don't get on me cause I've never heard them mention before.

Then you're ignorant, sure. It's been in the Rules of Golf for a long time. Players of all levels have been able to know and abuse or follow this rule from the get-go. Players in Ryder Cups have been marking their balls when they're in a position to assist another player for decades. Ditto players marking their ball in city championships, local club championships, or even high school matches.

Heck, when I played in a high school match it was against one other player on the other team, but we played with a teammate having a match against another player.

You damn well bet that if my teammate's opponent hit his ball to a position where it could assist my opponent's play, I had him mark his ball.

Because that's been a rule for a long time now, and so people have been trying to take advantage of it for a long time now.

On the PGA Tour? It's relatively recent. But I've KNOWN and followed the Rule for decades.

[iacas]

From another site:

Quote

New comment from Charles Murphy:

Re: Backstopping. About 40+ years ago I was playing in a State Am with George Burns, a highly rated amateur who then went on to a professional career. On a par 5, he and I were near each other maybe 20 yards short of the green. I pitched up and my ball ended up behind the hole. I waited for George to hit his pitch and he called over and asked me to mark my ball. After the hole, as we were walking to the next tee, he told me "We all have to protect the field. No one else would have the benefit of that ball behind the hole." He didn't use the term "backstop", but I remember it well and use his advice to this day.

[DeadMan]

 

[Golfingdad]

33 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

 

Technically, that's more like "side-stopping", yeah? 

[Missouri Swede]

PGA Championship, 3rd round.  Koepka in the bunker.  Kisner's ball is on the green.

 

[DeadMan]

Jeez, and they're both in the hunt for a major. What is Kisner thinking?

Edited August 11, 2018 by DeadMan

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

PGA Championship, 3rd round.  Koepka in the bunker.  Kisner's ball is on the green.

 

Oh my. 😞

[Zeph]

Disgusting. Just terrible sportsmanship.

[Grizvok]

1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

PGA Championship, 3rd round.  Koepka in the bunker.  Kisner's ball is on the green.

 

Wow.

[iacas]

 

[colin007]

Backstopping incident draws ire of Golf Channel commentators

---

Another backstopping example has emerged on the PGA Tour. Matt Kuchar...

 

[DeadMan]

Jeez, that's dumb. Could have easily cost himself a win by leaving his ball there. Although, it would be poetic justice to lose a tournament because you left your ball around the hole.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Jeez, that's dumb. Could have easily cost himself a win by leaving his ball there. Although, it would be poetic justice to lose a tournament because you left your ball around the hole.

Could have cost someone else a victory, too. Several other players were still in it on the ninth.

It's not like he backstopped on the 18th when everything else was decided (not that it would be any less dumb or egregious).

[DeadMan]

Also happening on the LPGA:

The full videos doesn't show it, but I'm wondering if Olson gave a sign or something to Jutanugarn not to mark here. Jutanugarn goes to start marking her ball, it looks like, and she looks over at Olson, motioning something, and immediately stops. This seems awfully close to the line, if not over it.

LPGA apparently deleted a tweet about this, too:

Yikes.

[DaveP043]

58 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Also happening on the LPGA:

The full videos doesn't show it, but I'm wondering if Olson gave a sign or something to Jutanugarn not to mark here. Jutanugarn goes to start marking her ball, it looks like, and she looks over at Olson, motioning something, and immediately stops. This seems awfully close to the line, if not over it.

Yikes.

If my memory serves me right, the previous rules penalized both players if they agreed to leave the ball in place when it had the potential to help, without reference to WHY they made that decision.  The current rules specifically say:

Quote

If two or more players agree to leave a ball in place to help any player,

In my mind, this small change makes it a bit easier to avoid penalty.  In this case, it is apparent that the players agreed to leave the first ball in place.  I'm sure the players will say they left the ball in place for pace of play, never thinking that it could actually help.  I prefer the old rule.

[DeadMan]

15 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

If my memory serves me right, the previous rules penalized both players if they agreed to leave the ball in place when it had the potential to help, without reference to WHY they made that decision.  The current rules specifically say:

In my mind, this small change makes it a bit easier to avoid penalty.  In this case, it is apparent that the players agreed to leave the first ball in place.  I'm sure the players will say they left the ball in place for pace of play, never thinking that it could actually help.  I prefer the old rule.

I don't think that's a significant difference from the old rule, which was:

Quote

22-1. Ball Assisting Play 

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may: 

a.

Lift the ball if it is his ball; or 

b.

Have any other ball lifted. 

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned, unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21). 

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball. 

In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified. 

Note: When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted.

I think the "agreement" piece is bigger issue here.

In fact, the new rules are softer, in that it's not an automatic DQ for doing this. If anything, that should make rules officials less hesitant to enforce the rule.

Edited February 22, 2019 by DeadMan