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Firm Green Approach Shots


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7 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I was well inside that time limit. After my initial reply was saved, I saw the OP's second post where he said he played Pro V-1's. Thus, my reply was of absolutely no help! So, when the edit didn't work, I just made another reply. I hope he manages to figure it out, because I have no clue.

11:18 and then 11:55.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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23 hours ago, boogielicious said:

How about grammar? :-)

I do hit it pretty high with my short irons and wedges. I guess I could play it a half ball further forward to get more height. I will try that next time. Thanks.

He has a very high swing speed so his balls go very high and spin a lot more than other people. My son also has a very high swing speed and can hold greens and spin back on So. Cal. greens which are really hard and dry. My strategy is different than his to hold greens mainly because he's using a PW from 150 and I'm using an 8i.

By high, I think he means 30-40 yards high, and spin is probably 20-40% more than what we put on the ball.

If you try to move half a ball further to get more height, it might not work as well as you think. You need more spin.

For more normal people, I think it's better to hit those soft fringes as close to the hole as possible then putt in from there.

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There are other elements to be aware of when playing on a firm course and firm greens. Wind direction and wind speed along with approach area design and undulation / slope design of greens are a big part of ones considerations when making decisions. They usually require different shot selection along with having a variety of shot abilities as an arsenal in the bag, it's a big part of the game. Sometimes a player can hit a perfect shot and the result may end up undesirable due to many factors and often accentuated on firm conditions.

Green speed and firmness can vary throughout the day. Having course knowledge is useful knowing where or how to play certain shots. I personally enjoy playing firm conditions. It can make a day very interesting and challenging.

 

 

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On 5/14/2016 at 7:56 AM, boogielicious said:

Firm as in not even leaving pitch marks... How do I change my approach? ...

It may be a temporary condition.  If this continues, one possible approach would be to hit a lower flighted shot short of the green and try to bounce/roll it on.  With softer green approaches, a high shot will often stop short of the green.  The lower flighted shot might allow a bit more roll.

For now I would not change much and wait to see if the April/May showers soften up the greens.

Brian Kuehn

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I played a different course yesterday with softer greens. I didn't have trouble sticking shots on the green here. From 54 deg wedge up to a 7 iron, I was able to get the ball to stick. My 7 iron from 150 landed at around 150 and rolled out 5 yards. My PM and GW shots had their pitch marks within a few feet at most. 

So I will game plan a bit differently for Thursdays round at my league course.

Thanks all for the replies.

Scott

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  • 7 years later...

I know this is an older thread, but it seems to be the most relevant topic. Background: I am back at a club that I had left a few years ago where one of my main issues was the firmness of the greens. I feel that I am a fairly decent golfer, hit fairly high shots with good clubhead speed and use a decent 3-piece ball, but can't seem to hold greens here like I can at other courses. A number of greens are elevated and some have a severe slope which seems to exasperate being able to hold them. It is very difficult to find your ball mark as well. My lowest differential this season at this course is 10.3 and my HI is now climbing again. That is another reason I left 3 years ago. I got to a 5.3 HI playing at a nice Donald Ross/Dr. Hurdzan course and then came here (job/city change) and immediately started climbing to a 10 HI even with all of the soft capping on the GHIN. I played yesterday with a buddy at his new course and shot a 7.0 differential where I was probably not striking it quite as well, but the greens were very soft. Thye putted fast, but were very receptive for the most past. Pitch marks were very visible and I spun a few back as well. My current course is very well maintained and there is a lot of pride in the course and from the crew that maintains it. Thye have an irrigation system, but am wondering if they should use it more🤣

Questions: Should I switch to my buddies course next year and enjoy sticking greens, or should I suck it up and learn to master my current course? Which sounds more like a proper golf course that serious golfers play on?

I want to become a better golfer, but don't want to needlessly beat my head against the wall with trying to master an unfair course. I have a box of 4-piece balls I can start using and I can also load up on Pro V1s and also focus on figuring the methodology out. Maybe I need a new set of wedges with fresh grooves.

I looking to be "set straight". My HI index has already risen 2 strokes form last year at a different course.

 

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39 minutes ago, Carl3 said:

I know this is an older thread, but it seems to be the most relevant topic. Background: I am back at a club that I had left a few years ago where one of my main issues was the firmness of the greens. I feel that I am a fairly decent golfer, hit fairly high shots with good clubhead speed and use a decent 3-piece ball, but can't seem to hold greens here like I can at other courses. A number of greens are elevated and some have a severe slope which seems to exasperate being able to hold them. It is very difficult to find your ball mark as well. My lowest differential this season at this course is 10.3 and my HI is now climbing again. That is another reason I left 3 years ago. I got to a 5.3 HI playing at a nice Donald Ross/Dr. Hurdzan course and then came here (job/city change) and immediately started climbing to a 10 HI even with all of the soft capping on the GHIN. I played yesterday with a buddy at his new course and shot a 7.0 differential where I was probably not striking it quite as well, but the greens were very soft. Thye putted fast, but were very receptive for the most past. Pitch marks were very visible and I spun a few back as well. My current course is very well maintained and there is a lot of pride in the course and from the crew that maintains it. Thye have an irrigation system, but am wondering if they should use it more🤣

Questions: Should I switch to my buddies course next year and enjoy sticking greens, or should I suck it up and learn to master my current course? Which sounds more like a proper golf course that serious golfers play on?

I want to become a better golfer, but don't want to needlessly beat my head against the wall with trying to master an unfair course. I have a box of 4-piece balls I can start using and I can also load up on Pro V1s and also focus on figuring the methodology out. Maybe I need a new set of wedges with fresh grooves.

I looking to be "set straight". My HI index has already risen 2 strokes form last year at a different course.

 

What’s the shortest club you can hold the greens with? A club I play in NH was like that 3-4 years ago after they started rolling the greens. Even a PW to the center of the green would roll off the back. We started trying to hit 0-10 yards short just to roll on. Last year and this year they were better, but that may have been to more rain and maybe some complaints.

Unless the course is willing to soften the greens, if you’re not enjoying it, I would switch.

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Scott

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6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

What’s the shortest club you can hold the greens with? A club I play in NH was like that 3-4 years ago after they started rolling the greens. Even a PW to the center of the green would roll off the back. We started trying to hit 0-10 yards short just to roll on. Last year and this year they were better, but that may have been to more rain and maybe some complaints.

Unless the course is willing to soften the greens, if you’re not enjoying it, I would switch.

Depends on the green due to elevation and slope. There are two in particular that I feel I would need to be within 50 yards with a 58* wedge to consistently hold. Many might be more like an 8 iron or so.

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What's your descent angle with, say, an 8I? What's your spin rate? Peak height?

Can you get those three bits of information?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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37 minutes ago, iacas said:

What's your descent angle with, say, an 8I? What's your spin rate? Peak height?

Can you get those three bits of information?

I will put that on my “to do” list. Hopefully get that this week.

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3 hours ago, iacas said:

What's your descent angle with, say, an 8I? What's your spin rate? Peak height?

Can you get those three bits of information?

Here is Trackman Data from 4 years ago.  I feel like I hit my irons even better now.

image.thumb.png.0d88975e2229e91d39ca173659660d4c.png

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That doesn't have the landing angle or peak height.

Spin seems fine.

PGA Tour smash factor with an 8I is 1.35 or 1.36.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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2 minutes ago, iacas said:

That doesn't have the landing angle or peak height.

Spin seems fine.

PGA Tour smash factor with an 8I is 1.35 or 1.36.

What kind of equipment/set up will give you peak height and angle of decent?

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Just now, Carl3 said:

What kind of equipment/set up will give you peak height and angle of decent?

A Trackman will. FlightScope will. Even the Mevo+ does it.

FS Trajectory Optimizer says your peak height is 103.5 feet, which is fine.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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