Club Face Control

[Abu3baid]

After working with my instructor on key#4 I was able to get my path to consistently go out around 4*, which is great, except I was also consistently getting the club face between 4*-6* open which ultimately resulted in either push or push fades..  Obviously if I'm going to play a push draw I need to get that face to be right around 2* or so to play good golf.

Some of the things I tried were trying to think of the logo of the glove facing the ground at A6 and facing the target right around impact..  It's not easy, and I'm having limited success..  

what are some of the good drills you have done or recommend for club face control? 

[14ledo81]

The revving the motorcycle feel has worked well for me in the past.

[Rainmaker]

I think of it more as a stepping stone on the way to a good swing but Brian Manzella's "twistaway" move is one I found helpful for a while.  I bought his video "Never Slice Again" - which is a pretty decent video, imo.  (I did continue to slice for a long time after watching it, though, lol)  That talks a lot about this "twistaway move".  It's pretty similar to the motorcycle revving.  The only free video I could find of it is here at  28:30.  You can also read about it on various forums by googling.  

 

 I just watched this clip after not thinking about it for a long time . .I think I don't "twistaway" anymore but I take a better path to the top and then I also flatten my left wrist (ie - dropping the club, flattening, etc) at the top before starting down.   If I tried to add anymore twist now it would give me a really shut face - but it did help when I struggled (big time!) with an open face. 

Hope it helps!

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Rainmaker

[Patch]

Not so much a drill, as it is a tweaking of the grip. Getting a decent swing path is easier than getting the correct grip/club face angle combination. 

I was taught to keep my same club path, and grip. The adjustment was closing the club face just a little at address. This compensated for where my hands were actually returning at impact, which was leaving the club face a little open. Not sure it would work for others, but you never know. 

[gregsandiego]

3 minutes ago, Patch said:

Not so much a drill, as it is a tweaking of the grip. Getting a decent swing path is easier than getting the correct grip/club face angle combination. 

I was taught to keep my same club path, and grip. The adjustment was closing the club face just a little at address. This compensated for where my hands were actually returning at impact, which was leaving the club face a little open. Not sure it would work for others, but you never know. 

Seems like for sure that would work. But I thought there was some purist thinking that it was wrong to compensate that way.

Kind of like aiming left to compensate for a slice, you don't really learn the control.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I think of it more as a stepping stone on the way to a good swing but Brian Manzella's "twistaway" move is one I found helpful for a while.  I bought his video "Never Slice Again" - which is a pretty decent video, imo.  (I did continue to slice for a long time after watching it, though, lol)  That talks a lot about this "twistaway move".  It's pretty similar to the motorcycle revving.  The only free video I could find of it is here at  28:30.  You can also read about it on various forums by googling.  

 

 I just watched this clip after not thinking about it for a long time . .I think I don't "twistaway" anymore but I take a better path to the top and then I also flatten my left wrist (ie - dropping the club, flattening, etc) at the top before starting down.   If I tried to add anymore twist now it would give me a really shut face - but it did help when I struggled (big time!) with an open face. 

Hope it helps!

 

Thanks.

That 34 min YouTube is surreal. Mostly talk, and what is all that white noise in the background? Is that a freeway or a river? Blurred background adds to the spookiness of it.

He does seem like an interesting character. Probably with some good advice if you can wait for it. It's good that you gave the start time.

 

[Rainmaker]

13 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

He does seem like an interesting character. Probably with some good advice if you can wait for it. It's good that you gave the start time.

 

I do find him enjoyable to watch - kinda like the Power Pressure Cooker guy, lol.  His ideas are pretty good, I think.  He actually says in the video "Never Slice Again" that this could be a temporary move that you may need to one day stop doing . .but it's not like a "bad habit" type move . .ie, you won't need to "unlearn it". 

[gregsandiego]

2 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I do find him enjoyable to watch - kinda like the Power Pressure Cooker guy, lol.  His ideas are pretty good, I think.  He actually says in the video "Never Slice Again" that this could be a temporary move that you may need to one day stop doing . .but it's not like a "bad habit" type move . .ie, you won't need to "unlearn it". 

Is that pressure cooker an infomercial? He does seem like an amateur infomercial. Lots of plugs for his video.Was the video produced a little better than the YouTube?

 

 

[Rainmaker]

Just now, gregsandiego said:

Is that pressure cooker an infomercial? He does seem like an amateur infomercial. Lots of plugs for his video.Was the video produced a little better than the YouTube?

 

 

Yes - The Power Pressure Cooker guy is my favorite infomercial guy maybe of all time.  I've seen that infomercial maybe 6 times and I have absolutely no intention of buying this thing.  He also sold something else a while back that I forget now what it was . .but I watched that one a few times, too.  He's mesmerizing, lol. 

The Never Slice Again video is old - but produced well.  Manzella has lots of stuff on Youtube - some of it professionally produced.  He has some recognition as a teacher - like Golf Digest or whatever. 

But did you ever notice the most fun to watch golf videos are at least 50% "empowering"?  Like - I'm going to show you how *easy* it is . .and you know it's at least partially crap but you watch it anyway.  Like the golf-video equivalent of watching Rocky.  Manzella just has a screen presence I like . .plus I can't say his ideas are wrong . .maybe others more expert than myself would disagree . . but I don't think anything I saw in his videos ever set me back any . .and they actually helped in the short term. 

[saevel25]

8 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

what are some of the good drills you have done or recommend for club face control? 

If you are working on the reverse motorcycle feel then just keep at it. Flattening out the club in transition and in the downswing might take a while to sink in for it to be routine. 

I would just put an alignment stick, angled away from you, about 10 yards in front you down the target line. Then just work on hitting balls to the right and see if they curve back to the left for you. 

What is your shot shape with the 4 degrees in to out? 

[gregsandiego]

6 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

 

But did you ever notice the most fun to watch golf videos are at least 50% "empowering"?  Like - I'm going to show you how *easy* it is . .and you know it's at least partially crap but you watch it anyway.  Like the golf-video equivalent of watching Rocky.  Manzella just has a screen presence I like . .plus I can't say his ideas are wrong . .maybe others more expert than myself would disagree . . but I don't think anything I saw in his videos ever set me back any . .and they actually helped in the short term. 

Yes. There must be dozens if not more that say "end your slice forever".

Before we get slapped for being off topic I think this would be a great new post.

Funny/entertaining YouTube golf videos.

Have you seen the hot chicks that teach you things like how to regrip your club?

[David in FL]

7 hours ago, Patch said:

Not so much a drill, as it is a tweaking of the grip. Getting a decent swing path is easier than getting the correct grip/club face angle combination. 

I was taught to keep my same club path, and grip. The adjustment was closing the club face just a little at address. This compensated for where my hands were actually returning at impact, which was leaving the club face a little open. Not sure it would work for others, but you never know. 

My thought exactly.  If the grip is good and you're happy with the swing path, why not simply close the face 2-3 degrees at address and regrip...?

[Patch]

7 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

Seems like for sure that would work. But I thought there was some purist thinking that it was wrong to compensate that way.

Kind of like aiming left to compensate for a slice, you don't really learn the control.

 

 

Thanks.

That 34 min YouTube is surreal. Mostly talk, and what is all that white noise in the background? Is that a freeway or a river? Blurred background adds to the spookiness of it.

He does seem like an interesting character. Probably with some good advice if you can wait for it. It's good that you gave the start time.

 

I probably should have explained the "closing" part a little better. Think of it as closing the open club face at address, but still having the club face less open than as before. 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Patch

[Abu3baid]

51 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If you are working on the reverse motorcycle feel then just keep at it. Flattening out the club in transition and in the downswing might take a while to sink in for it to be routine. 

I would just put an alignment stick, angled away from you, about 10 yards in front you down the target line. Then just work on hitting balls to the right and see if they curve back to the left for you. 

What is your shot shape with the 4 degrees in to out? 

That's exactly what I'm working on, I'm bringing the club pretty steep on the backswing, and then feeling my wrist laying the shaft down from the top and then once I get down to A6 it seems that I don't have enough time to close the face.. it is also probably a combination of me not being deep enough at A4 as well.  The other thing is if I try to resolve the issue by being more aggressive from the top I end up tipping over since I don't give my self enough time to lay the shaft down.. it's like a double edge sword, and I probably just need to work on it slowly as I have been.

The balls are already starting to the right, however they aren't turning back because the club face is either the same degrees as the path or open relative to the path and it sails further right.  Unless what you meant is put the stick 10 yards and about 30* to the right and try to get the ball to start slightly at it or to the left of it?  I might actually try that.

Shot shape is either push or a push fade, except those times where I am able to get the face closed relative to the path by a couple of degrees and I hit a push draw.

 

Just now, David in FL said:

My thought exactly.  If the grip is good and you're happy with the swing path, why not simply close the face 2-3 degrees at address and regrip...?

I discussed that at my lesson right then and there, I actually suggested it.  He told me that I should be working to do it dynamically as gripping it closed might start introducing compensations that I'm better off without.  

[Patch]

8 minutes ago, David in FL said:

My thought exactly.  If the grip is good and you're happy with the swing path, why not simply close the face 2-3 degrees at address and regrip...?

I could never see "degrees", and worked with 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 inch increments. I once saw a training club marked like that. A square face  to the target line was "0". On either side of the "0" were marks in 1/8 increments, around the shaft for adjustment reference points. The golfer simply turned the club grip in their hands, then regripped to find a club face position that worked better with their correct grip, and swng path. 

The thought was that not everyones' grip returned the club face, the same,  back to what it was address. An individual should expiriment to find their own correct club face position at address. 

[Pete F]

All I can figure out is the golf swing is totally illogical.

I pretty much changed my slice to a fade by making sure my grip is neutral and then at address "twisting" the club open.

Currently works for me and I have no idea why!

[colin007]

Prolly a stupid question, but just wanting to double check - the motorcycle "revving" feel is the left hand bending towards the inside of the wrist (where you take your pulse) and not backwards?

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Prolly a stupid question, but just wanting to double check - the motorcycle "revving" feel is the left hand bending towards the inside of the wrist (where you take your pulse) and not backwards?

Correct

[colin007]

6 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Correct

Thanks Broham.