Trump Courses - Would You Pay to Play One Now?

[LICC]

"I don't play the NYC Trump course for two reasons. The first is, well, never mind. The second is that, IMO, the course and the golfing experience is simply not worth the money. While the course was in good shape when I last played a few years ago, the layout was very repetitive, and the views were, on the whole, kinda grim. IMO, there are a lot better values in the NYC area."

When I hear people say this about Ferry Point, I conclude they don't really know about golf courses. Yes, there is a stretch in the middle of the course where it is aesthetically repetitive (fairways cut through fescued dunes). But the layout and design of the holes are far from repetitive. The course has fairways that sway right and sway left. Dogleg right and dogleg left. Delayed doglegs. Short par-4s, long par-4s and mid-range par 4s. Short and long par-3s. Holes that elevate up and those that play downhill. Holes with centerline bunkers and those that are open. Holes with mounding in the fairways as hazards. Different green shapes and sizes. A wonderfully done cape hole over water. And even aesthetically, you have holes with marshes or a pond, holes with the bridge view, holes off the cemetary, holes with magnificent NYC skyline views that seem to blend right out of the dunes. It is as if this poster would prefer a big water hole and some massive trees in the middle of the course so it wouldn't seem repetitive, while he misses all the varied detail in the layout.

[DaveP043]

31 minutes ago, LICC said:

"I don't play the NYC Trump course for two reasons. The first is, well, never mind. The second is that, IMO, the course and the golfing experience is simply not worth the money. While the course was in good shape when I last played a few years ago, the layout was very repetitive, and the views were, on the whole, kinda grim. IMO, there are a lot better values in the NYC area."

When I hear people say this about Ferry Point, I conclude they don't really know about golf courses. Yes, there is a stretch in the middle of the course where it is aesthetically repetitive (fairways cut through fescued dunes). But the layout and design of the holes are far from repetitive. The course has fairways that sway right and sway left. Dogleg right and dogleg left. Delayed doglegs. Short par-4s, long par-4s and mid-range par 4s. Short and long par-3s. Holes that elevate up and those that play downhill. Holes with centerline bunkers and those that are open. Holes with mounding in the fairways as hazards. Different green shapes and sizes. A wonderfully done cape hole over water. And even aesthetically, you have holes with marshes or a pond, holes with the bridge view, holes off the cemetary, holes with magnificent NYC skyline views that seem to blend right out of the dunes. It is as if this poster would prefer a big water hole and some massive trees in the middle of the course so it wouldn't seem repetitive, while he misses all the varied detail in the layout.

Much like our political views, there's a lot of variation in what we each prefer from a golf course.  If that poster dislikes Ferry Point, and has specific reasons, I'll respect his opinion, just as I'll respect your opinion.

Welcome to TST, @LICC.  I'll suggest that when you want to quote a post, you use the QUOTE button at the bottom of the post in question.  It helps the rest of us find that post, and read any other information that might be presented.

 

[LICC]

Thanks Dave. I would be curious to hear what exactly he found to be repetitive, or as you put it, the specific reasons. I wonder if he just found the visual framing repetitive or if there was anything more to it.

[DaveP043]

13 minutes ago, LICC said:

Thanks Dave. I would be curious to hear what exactly he found to be repetitive, or as you put it, the specific reasons. I wonder if he just found the visual framing repetitive or if there was anything more to it.

That might be a little off-topic for this particular thread, might be more appropriate in the other Ferry Point thread you posted in.  I suggest you reference his name by typing @ and the first few letters of his name then clicking the right name from the pull-down menu.  He'll get a notification that you mentioned him, and hopefully he'll respond.  You can find some articles on how to use some of the features of  this website here:

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/index/

[DrMJG]

In my misspent youth, I had a chance to play Doral as a guest.  However, rain caused a cancellation.  Hard to play in a thunderstorm!

I knew it would be a very challenging course. For that reason, alone,I would consider playing it again.

 Hard for me to dismiss the political consideration for a replay.  And, it was interesting that this topic appeared right after AG Barr issues his interpretation of the report.  I will leave this comment stand on its own.

A different time from today (plus, perhaps, a new owner) would renew my strong desire to play this course next time I am down Florida way.  Cost might be a factor.  The other fact, that I am 40 years older that that first fateful attempt, would mean others on the course might be frustrated with my lack of fantastic play.

[klineka]

5 minutes ago, DrMJG said:

 And, it was interesting that this topic appeared right after AG Barr issues his interpretation of the report.  I will leave this comment stand on its own.

That is dangerously close to bringing politics into the conversation.

But this thread has been active for well over 2 years so that's not even an accurate statement

[DrMJG]

17 minutes ago, klineka said:

That is dangerously close to bringing politics into the conversation.

But this thread has been active for well over 2 years so that's not even an accurate statement

Perhaps I should have said it reappeared.  ( I have only been on this site for just under 2 years. So my comment reflects my perception.)

Hard to keep ownership out of consideration.  I would think the same thing about a few others courses I know, where I have loved the course but won't play for ownership issues.  The fact that Trump was named in the question makes it hard to avoid, no matter how you envision the owner in terms of your likes or dislikes.

If it gets it too political, rather than chastising the responders, ask the management of the site to consider eliminating this topic.

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by DrMJG

[Lil Greener]

Yeah -- if someone asks us whether we'd play a Trump course, then all political bets are on - why ask it unless you'd want to know why we would or wouldn't?   It'll be fun to see whether they're all funded by the Russians.  He had no money to buy them or improve them.

[Jeremie Boop]

16 minutes ago, klineka said:

That is dangerously close to bringing politics into the conversation.

But this thread has been active for well over 2 years so that's not even an accurate statement

 

8 minutes ago, DrMJG said:

Perhaps I should have said it reappeared.  ( I have only been on this site for just under 2 years. So my comment reflects my perception.)

Hard to keep ownership out of consideration.  I would think the same thing about a few others courses I know, where I have loved the course but won't play for ownership issues.  The fact that Trump was named in the question makes it hard to avoid, no matter how you envision the owner in terms of your likes or dislikes.

If it gets it too political, rather than chastising the responders, ask the management of the site to consider eliminating it.

To be fair, I really agree that this thread should be locked. The issue is, go back to before the previous election/campaign and ask this question you'd be hard pressed to get many people saying they wouldn't play the course if it was a free round or they could afford it. These days, most people who wouldn't play are taking that stance because of politics. People saying they wouldn't even play the course for free makes that even more obvious.

[chspeed]

2 hours ago, LICC said:

Thanks Dave. I would be curious to hear what exactly he found to be repetitive, or as you put it, the specific reasons. I wonder if he just found the visual framing repetitive or if there was anything more to it.

I've played Ferry Point 3 or 4 times. For me, scenery, surroundings, and memorability play a large part in my desire to go back to a course. In that sense, your observation of my golf course design knowledge is fair.

On most courses I like, I can remember a good number of the holes, how I played them, what they looked like from the tee, etc. Every time I left Ferry Point, I had trouble doing that on all but a small handful of holes. That's what makes Ferry Point repetitive to me. The views also didn't do it for me. I find the Whitestone bridge fugly, and looking at the NYC skyline, considering I've lived here all my life, is not what I'm looking for on the golf course. It's all just personal preference.

[DaveP043]

51 minutes ago, DrMJG said:

Perhaps I should have said it reappeared.  ( I have only been on this site for just under 2 years. So my comment reflects my perception.)

Hard to keep ownership out of consideration.  I would think the same thing about a few others courses I know, where I have loved the course but won't play for ownership issues.  The fact that Trump was named in the question makes it hard to avoid, no matter how you envision the owner in terms of your likes or dislikes.

If it gets it too political, rather than chastising the responders, ask the management of the site to consider eliminating this topic.

 

46 minutes ago, Lil Greener said:

Yeah -- if someone asks us whether we'd play a Trump course, then all political bets are on - why ask it unless you'd want to know why we would or wouldn't?   It'll be fun to see whether they're all funded by the Russians.  He had no money to buy them or improve them.

Over my years of membership here, I've found that this group  of people can do a better job of discussing issues like this without actually arguing the politics behind it, much better than on most other forum sites I've seen.  Chalk it up to the type of person who is attracted to this specific forum, and to some good moderation.  

In this one, I'd suggest that it has been appropriate to say that the reason for your choice is politics, but stop there, to avoid arguing about those politics.  My personal preference is to be able to discuss things like this in a calm way, without the nasty personal attacks that political topics often devolve into, and without completely eliminating the discussions.  With a little self-restraint on everyone's part, and respect for each other, we can do that.  That's basically all that the Rules for this place require:

 

[klineka]

1 hour ago, DrMJG said:

If it gets it too political, rather than chastising the responders, ask the management of the site to consider eliminating this topic.

The topic doesn't need to be eliminated, people just need to discuss it without bringing up direct thoughts about politics.

Or, phrased a different way, you are asking for the topic to be eliminated because you were called out for not following a rule. Just because you didn't follow the rule doesn't mean that the topic should be eliminated. (Based on the definition of chastise, I didn't even chastise you, I simply said a specific part of your response was borderline talking about politics, which it was).

If you (anyone) doesn't feel they can comment on the topic without directly talking about politics, then don't comment on the topic. 

It's fine to say that the reason you would or wouldn't play the courses is because of politics, but bringing up specific topics or things that occurred within politics serves no purpose in this (or any other) thread.

Edited May 22, 2019 by klineka

[Lil Greener]

Good point.  Well stated.  Of course, I'd be more interested in hearing about those who design the courses and which of those courses stand out for various reasons:  Old Tom Morris, Trent Jones Sr., his boys, Alistair McKenzie, Pete Dye, Donald Ross, James Braid, Willie Park, Jack Nicklaus, Perry and Press Maxwell, Roger Rulewich, and so many others.  Their styles, pros and cons, everlasting styles...all interesting topics which could fill an encyclopedia.   I am not interested really in who owns a course.  

[trainsmokegolf]

of course i would, its just a game

[LICC]

@chspeed Thanks for the response. It makes sense if you value visual scenery most, and skyline and bridge views are not your personal preference. But as to having many holes memorable for their scenery, what NY area course would you say would meet that criteria better than Ferry Point. I've played it enough times that I remember every hole but even after the first time I played, I found a good 7 holes to be highly memorable (6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16, 18). What NY public course has more than that after one play? Bethpage Black sure. Bethpage Red, which I very much like, is pretty much tree-lined fairway after tree-lined fairway with lots of doglegs. Most parkland courses have similar visuals. I'm curious which NY area public courses you would consider better than Ferry Point.

[chspeed]

20 minutes ago, LICC said:

@chspeed Thanks for the response. It makes sense if you value visual scenery most, and skyline and bridge views are not your personal preference. But as to having many holes memorable for their scenery, what NY area course would you say would meet that criteria better than Ferry Point. I've played it enough times that I remember every hole but even after the first time I played, I found a good 7 holes to be highly memorable (6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16, 18). What NY public course has more than that after one play? Bethpage Black sure. Bethpage Red, which I very much like, is pretty much tree-lined fairway after tree-lined fairway with lots of doglegs. Most parkland courses have similar visuals. I'm curious which NY area public courses you would consider better than Ferry Point.

As I wrote in my original post, it's the value for the course I was referencing. Ferry Point is expensive for what you get IMO.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, chspeed said:

As I wrote in my original post, it's the value for the course I was referencing. Ferry Point is expensive for what you get IMO.

And value is the reason I'm not anxious to play the Trump Courses.  In many cases, particularly in Scotland and Ireland, the Trump courses are substantially more expensive than their more historic neighbors.  Turnbury might be the exception for me, but I'd rather play Lahinch instead of Doonbeg, Royal Aberdeen instead of Trump International.  Just my preference.

[DrMJG]

@klineka Not sure where I explained, except in passing, that my politics is a consideration, just that it was. Not sure what the "rule" I borderline broke here.  It was asked if I would play the course, not if would I tell others not to play the course because of my politics.  I never said or I'mplied that.

I agree that the main consideration for playing a course should be the course itself.  

Accept that the way this question was asked, in no small part, brings out the points you do not care for. Here the personality of ownership may bring comments such as mine. And this is not the place for me to explicitly and strongly vent my political views, other than to say they do come into play in this instance.  

So be cautious of how you interpret my intentions.  And accept that ownership, in THIS case, for more than a handful, is a consideration.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by DrMJG