52-08 gap wedge; Get a sand wedge or just open the gap?

[Liko81]

TL;DRers read the bold text:

Currently, beyond a 46* GI PW, I have two Warrior Golf wedges from a garage sale; one 52* wedge with practically no bounce at all, and a 56-12 sand wedge. They have served me well, and I haven't had to deal with Warrior Golf's iffy marketing which is a plus, but these wedges have a very prominent square heel which sharply limits the situations in which I can open the clubface for that nice high 20-yard pitch that sticks hard where you put it. I've gotten better at that open shot out of sand and thick grass lies, despite the equipment, but now I'd like a wedge that actually facilitates it, especially from slightly thinner lies than what I can currently get away with (most of the roughs here in Texas aren't so rough, really, unless you hit into the shade of a tree).

So now the question. If I want a pretty direct replacement for my current gap, I'd pick the Vokey SM6 in a 52-08F configuration to play square approaches from the thin lies that are common here in Texas. If I do, then does a dedicated 56-12 sand wedge alongside a 52-08 gap make sense? Opening the gap wedge about 4-6 degrees, theoretically, will give me the steeper profiles that are traditional sand wedge territory, like 56-12 and 58-14. Hitting an example of the 52-08 in a bay gave me a wonderful range of behaviors, and even with the full sole the club opens up much more easily than my Warrior. The only trick is finding out exactly how much to open the club to get a particular loft (if that's even necessary). I would lose the slightly longer shaft of the traditional dedicated sand wedge, but that seems to be falling out of style anyway in favor of just digging your feet into the bunker to get under the ball. In any case, hitting fat in sand is something I have no problem doing; if anything I could use less shaft length on the sand wedge I have.

Alternately, it appears that 56-12 is also a bit passe for sand wedges; Vokey only offers the wider sand-surfing K-grind on the 58-14 and 60-14, which I suppose should tell me something about the state of the art in bunker play. If this is the new normal, then I could get a 52-08F and a 58-14K as a pair. A 58 with that much bounce and sole would be kind of a one-trick pony given my pitching technique from anything firmer (I used to have a lob wedge with similar specs, and with my centered, sweeping pitch swing it was pretty much useless for anything less than a perfect tufted lie), but the way I play approach shots on the average round, I have no problem with a dedicated club for that particular trick. So to follow-up, is the 58-14K wedge a better match to a 52-08F?

[iacas]

I don't know if people can answer it for you. Does each club fill a large enough gap that it's worth 1 of your 14?

[Liko81]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I don't know if people can answer it for you. Does each club fill a large enough gap that it's worth 1 of your 14?

Yes; if anything, I need to fill a gap that still exists between my PW (Ping G10, 46*) and the 52* in terms of distance. 50-54-58 is also appealing, especially since it would give me a choice of grinds as well as lofts. The downside is cost; that's $450 in clubs at retail, and the SM6 is still to new to have decent used prices.

[pganapathy]

If you can do it in terms of clubs in the bag, and of course greenbacks, go for the 50, 54 and 58, or a 50, 55 and 60.  The 50 is your gap wedge.  The 54/55 is your sand wedge with high bounce and the 58/60 is your lob wedge with low bounce.  This should give you most of the options you need and also fill your distance gaps.  That being said, you need to hit the wedges to see if they actually fill your distance gaps

[boogielicious]

6 hours ago, Liko81 said:

Yes; if anything, I need to fill a gap that still exists between my PW (Ping G10, 46*) and the 52* in terms of distance. 50-54-58 is also appealing, especially since it would give me a choice of grinds as well as lofts. The downside is cost; that's $450 in clubs at retail, and the SM6 is still to new to have decent used prices.

I currently use a 50-54-58 set up. My 58 is not the K grind though. I didn't like it that much as it felt like it didn't have enough bounce due to the grind. So I went with the 58-08 M grind. Even though there is less bounce, the grind felt better in the sand. My 54 is the 14 deg bounce, F grind. It works great in sand, rough and even hard pan. My set has a gap wedge, but I have used the Vokey 50 gap wedge in the past, which was fine.

There are also Edel wedges. I haven't had a chance to try them, but folks here swear by them.

[DaveP043]

My wedges run 46 (P), 52, 56, and 60.  The 52 and 60 have 8 degrees bounce, the 56 has 12, I think.  On full shots, I have about 10 yard gaps.  For bunker play I much prefer the 56, with its higher bounce, to either of the others.  I very seldom try to hit high floaters with either the 52 or 56, that's more for full shots and lower-flighted pitches and chips.  High pitches and flops I'll use the 60, I can open the face.  That's just my approach.  My conclusion, though, is that a 56-12 is not necessarily a bad companion to a 52-08 gap wedge, it seems to work for me.

[Golfingdad]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I currently use a 50-54-58 set up.

Me too.  But at this point I don't even care about distance gaps anymore in my wedges because I never rarely take "full swings" with any of them.  My full swing distances are (probably) about 125-130 for the 50*, 110 for the 54, and, I dunno, 90 maybe, for the 58?

Now, barring weather factors, the 50 will be the 105-120 club, the 54 is a 1-105 club, and the 58 is a 1-75 or so club.

[WUTiger]

7 hours ago, pganapathy said:

If you can do it in terms of clubs in the bag, and of course greenbacks, go for the 50, 54 and 58, or a 50, 55 and 60....

That being said, you need to hit the wedges to see if they actually fill your distance gaps

Liko,

If you can, go to a local Titleist Thursdays  event. Certain courses with Titleist-sponsored local pros have fittings on Thursdays. You can make a reservation to get fitted for irons, metals or wedges.

Back in January, I got in a half hour of hitting Titleist wedges at the PGA Merchandise Show, the day before I interviewed the Vokey marketing director. To my surprise, I did quite well hitting the F-grind wedges (48°  and SWs). I could open it up slightly in fluffy grass, and also got good high launch off of hard clay with sparse grass. boogie and i round the same thing:

7 hours ago, boogielicious said:

My 54 is the 14 deg bounce, F grind. It works great in sand, rough and even hard pan.

I then got a Titleist Thursday wedge fitting about two months ago. It was outdoors with a launch monitor. I was considering a 48°, 54°  and a 58° or 60°.  I liked the F-grind in 48 and 54, but pro suggested the S-grind might be better in 54. As for LW i did OK with S and K grinds, but wasn't really excited about either.

If you can, get the outdoor fitting with various turf conditions before you decide. Hitting live shots is the best way to determine yardage gapping.

Also, the SM6 wedges have progressive center of gravity to  lesser ballooning of shots on higher-lofted wedges.

  

[TourSpoon]

I bent my 47 to 48 and use a TVD 54/10 and 60/08. I prefer this to a 48-52-56-60 set-up. I can manage the gaps and don't have as many options swimming through my head. I still have options, but a 3 wedge set-up just works for my golfing brain. 

[sirhacksalot]

14 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

I bent my 47 to 48 and use a TVD 54/10 and 60/08. I prefer this to a 48-52-56-60 set-up. I can manage the gaps and don't have as many options swimming through my head. I still have options, but a 3 wedge set-up just works for my golfing brain. 

Ive tried adding a 52 but hasn't ever worked.  pw, 54, 60 works for me ok.  I am thinking even of moving to PW, and a 56 and trying that out for a bit.  

[DaveP043]

34 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

Ive tried adding a 52 but hasn't ever worked.  pw, 54, 60 works for me ok.  I am thinking even of moving to PW, and a 56 and trying that out for a bit.  

Pretty retro, that set-up, but it was standard for a lot of years.

[Liko81]

7 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I currently use a 50-54-58 set up. My 58 is not the K grind though. I didn't like it that much as it felt like it didn't have enough bounce due to the grind. So I went with the 58-08 M grind. Even though there is less bounce, the grind felt better in the sand. My 54 is the 14 deg bounce, F grind. It works great in sand, rough and even hard pan. My set has a gap wedge, but I have used the Vokey 50 gap wedge in the past, which was fine.

Interesting. My ideas for a 50-54-58 are pure speculation, I haven't hit any of these lofts in any grind even off the mat, so I'm paying attention to all the opinions. Your layout sounds similar to how I think I'd like to use a three-wedge set (essentially two gaps and a sand, instead of gap-sand-lob like pganapathy's layout), except I think I want an M grind on the 54 so I can use that club for flops.

Your point about the K grind is taken; I have a 60* in an older Sunday bag set (Old Turbo Power, Callaway BB knockoffs), and the combination of the bounce and the extremely wide sole essentially made the thing unplayable with my more centered, sweeping pitch swing; by the time my swing bottomed out, the leading edge of that stupid thing was a quarter-ball off the deck. I'm still interested in hitting a K (it doesn't look nearly as bad as my old 60*) but I'll keep past experience in mind and make sure to try it from thinner lies.

I was expecting to be able to get a 56-12K, keeping a 52-56 setup like I'm used to, but it simply doesn't exist in Vokey's conforming wedges; the only mention of a Vokey 56 K, any bounce angle, is a fairly old pre-CC model, and on paper there's a bit of a jump in bounce angle between the 14F and the 12S. Similarly, they don't put the M or S grind on 52* clubs, though the F grind on that one was very workable so I could probably deal.

I'll definitely be taking WUTiger's advice and looking for a nearby Titleist Thursday event. Hopefully I'll find a venue with natural turf testing areas and a bunker so I can put them through all of their paces.

[DaveP043]

54 minutes ago, Liko81 said:

I was expecting to be able to get a 56-12K, keeping a 52-56 setup like I'm used to, but it simply doesn't exist in Vokey's conforming wedges; the only mention of a Vokey 56 K, any bounce angle, is a fairly old pre-CC model, and on paper there's a bit of a jump in bounce angle between the 14F and the 12S. Similarly, they don't put the M or S grind on 52* clubs, though the F grind on that one was very workable so I could probably deal.

I know you mentioned it, but you're showing yourself as a 30+ handicap.  For the next few years, the sole grind of your wedges isn't going to be nearly as important as learning to use them properly.  In your shoes, I'd be looking at lightly used clubs in approximately the right loft/bounce combinations, without getting too bogged down in the next level of details.

[TourSpoon]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Pretty retro, that set-up, but it was standard for a lot of years.

It sure was, but that was when a strong pw was 48*. I don't think I would be comfortable today with an 8* gap in the wedge department. I certainly would feel ill prepared with a modern 46* pw and a 56*.

[Liko81]

15 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I know you mentioned it, but you're showing yourself as a 30+ handicap.  For the next few years, the sole grind of your wedges isn't going to be nearly as important as learning to use them properly.  In your shoes, I'd be looking at lightly used clubs in approximately the right loft/bounce combinations, without getting too bogged down in the next level of details.

Yeah, I get that, and the <80yd game is where I lose the most strokes, so there's something to be said for spending my next few buckets in the sand trap of the range instead of firing off most of them from the driving bay. But after some more time with a more modern wedge, I'm still convinced I'm missing out, so I'm still looking, and I might as well look for a wedge that will last me in both durability and playability.

"Lightly used" wedges are very rare locally; I've scoured the used racks at a few different stores and everything I've seen looks like it's been soaked in salt water and then used to hit off pebbled concrete, repeatedly. I've used 2ndSwing.com before and I trust them; only trouble is they don't list info on bounce or loft, and on SM4s neither were on the club so if I want to be sure what I'm getting I have to spend $10 extra for SM5s. I looked at Edel wedges; nice, but dayum. Even used on 2ndSwing they're running $300 a club.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Liko81 said:

Yeah, I get that, and the <80yd game is where I lose the most strokes

Are you sure?

Because, it's actually quite unlikely.

How many greens per round do you hit? How many times, in regulation, are you within about 20 yards of the green?

[Liko81]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Are you sure?

Because, it's actually quite unlikely.

How many greens per round do you hit? How many times, in regulation, are you within about 20 yards of the green?

Me? Maybe 4 GIRs a round. The approach will usually be close enough to pitch or bump on, but up-and-up-and-downs are common in my game, whether that's a chip and two-putt or a "bong hit" (skulling the pitch so it "burns the green") followed by another chip back on and one or two putts. At least once a round, I'll totally melt down within about 10 yards of the edge of the green. So yeah, the short game's hurting me.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Liko81 said:

Me? Maybe 4 GIRs a round. The approach will usually be close enough to pitch or bump on, but up-and-up-and-downs are common in my game, whether that's a chip and two-putt or a "bong hit" (skulling the pitch so it "burns the green") followed by another chip back on and one or two putts. At least once a round, I'll totally melt down within about 10 yards of the edge of the green. So yeah, the short game's hurting me.

4 GIR for a 30 handicap? If that's accurate, and you're not getting a lot of penalty strokes on the other holes… then yeah, it might be the short game.

You might be an outlier.