Kaepernick Sits for National Anthem

[StefanUrkel]

Supports Fidel Castro

[14ledo81]

Here is the deal young man. My recommendation is that you apologize. Be a stand up fella and admit you made a very stupid comment. Humbly state that you do realize how very special this country is and the opportunities it has afforded you — and many others. You should take that stand and apologize to all of those who are currently serving in our Armed Forces and those veterans who’ve been willing to make that last full measure of devotion. You see, when the National Anthem is played, it has a very special meaning to us — maybe you should take a hiatus and go over to Helmand Province in Afghanistan and spend a week and understand why. Go over and throw a football with the men and women who enable you to earn those millions of dollars.

The American flag has a very touching meaning for those of us for whom it will drape our coffin — as it was for my Dad…and it will be for me. That song defines who we are as a proud and exceptional people. This is a land where so many dream of coming to and earning the title of American. Your actions were shameful, disgusting, despicable and disrespectful.

You do have a right and a freedom of expression. But know, there are consequences to your ignorant action, which is what it was.

When the National Anthem is played, I salute because I am a black man born and raised in the inner city afforded the opportunity for greatness in my own right. May you seek God’s forgiveness and find humility, because we, the people are not going to forget what you did and said.

 

 

Another interesting (portion of) article.  This is from a black man that had served in the military.

[Gunther]

29 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

They're opinion pieces, not news stories, so they are merely reflections of the opinions of the authors - who cares where they were published?

Absolutely, 100% dead wrong.

I believe you, you're not driven by politics like most of us who comment on these types of threads.  But in general, yes, I stand by what I said.

[Elmer]

9 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

 

"Kaepernick, who is set to make $11.9 million in 2016, told San Francisco-area reporters Sunday that he means no disrespect to the military, but he is sitting down for a cause he feels is right."

This doesn't fly with me.  You don't get to do something disrespectful, and then say you meant no disrespect....

Again, it is not about the issue he is protesting to me.  It is about the way he is going about it.

Who determines this to be disrespectful? If someone fails to stand and no one sees it, is it still disrespectful?
If I decide to sit and tell my purple heart recipient why, and they are ok with it, do I still need to get a quorum of all veterans and service member's?

 Bhamani Jones, had a great article on this. He also spoke eloquently on M&M this AM!
"To oppose racism is righteous. To deny its existence, no matter the reason, is cowardice. To treat a peaceful protest like an act of war against whiteness or America — notions used interchangeably in this debate, which is problematic — is hypocrisy."

"The easy question to ask is whether one agrees with Kaepernick’s manner of protest — thus allowing respondents to ignore the substance of his thoughtful, measured critiques. The most disingenuous answers tend to come from those who defend his right to ignore the national anthem while making sure the world knows there were better ways for him to make his point, while, of course, stopping short of addressing the point itself."

http://theundefeated.com/features/kaepernick-is-asking-for-justice-not-peace/

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/standing_up_for_not_standing_up_during_the_national_anthem/s1_13132_21667963

[Marty2019]

I think the guy is being a dick.   If everyone who had a beef with some aspect of the USA decided to sit during the national anthem, no one would be standing up.   We've all got some complaint.   Should I refuse to stand for the anthem because I don't like the deficit?   Give me a break.  

Yes, I know, African Americans have been mistreated and will probably continue to be mistreated.   Sitting down for the anthem isn't going to cure that problem.   It's only going to piss people off.   You don't change anyone's opinion by pissing them off.  

What he's doing is just stupid.  And counterproductive.  

Edited August 29, 2016 by Marty2019

[Jeremie Boop]

2 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Who determines this to be disrespectful? If someone fails to stand and no one sees it, is it still disrespectful?
If I decide to sit and tell my purple heart recipient why, and they are ok with it, do I still need to get a quorum of all veterans and service member's?

Yet we are told all the time "if one person is offended then you shouldn't do/say it".... Seems funny that it's so quick to be turned around.

[14ledo81]

9 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Who determines this to be disrespectful? If someone fails to stand and no one sees it, is it still disrespectful?
If I decide to sit and tell my purple heart recipient why, and they are ok with it, do I still need to get a quorum of all veterans and service member's?

 

I think the person (in this case very large group of people) that it is disrespectful to.

8 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

I think the guy is being a dick.   If everyone who had a beef with some aspect of the USA decided to sit during the national anthem, no one would be standing up.   We've all got some complaint.   Should I refuse to stand for the anthem because I don't like the deficit?   Give me a break.  

Yes, I know, African Americans have been mistreated and will probably continue to be mistreated.   Sitting down for the anthem isn't going to cure that problem.   It's only going to piss people off.   You don't change anyone's opinion by pissing them off.  

What he's doing is just stupid.  And counterproductive.  

Agreed.

[CarlSpackler]

7 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

I think the guy is being a dick.   If everyone who had a beef with some aspect of the USA decided to sit during the national anthem, no one would be standing up.   We've all got some complaint.   Should I refuse to stand for the anthem because I don't like the deficit?   Give me a break.  

Yes, I know, African Americans have been mistreated and will probably continue to be mistreated.   Sitting down for the anthem isn't going to cure that problem.   It's only going to piss people off.   You don't change anyone's opinion by pissing them off.  

What he's doing is just stupid.  And counterproductive.  

^^^^^^^ That!

[Elmer]

1 minute ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Yet we are told all the time "if one person is offended then you shouldn't do/say it".... Seems funny that it's so quick to be turned around.

I think that advice works on a small scale, not really on a bigger scale. Offensiveness is generally personal. My calling you a "*^#@#%^&*" is meant to offend you, meant to belittle you. 
Protests are meant to outrage, but not cut deep in a personal sense. 

However in this case, how many people saw it as it happened? So the outrage is all after the fact. essentially we are outraged by something we did not see happen. We are outraged by hearing about what someone did.
Did Canada get this outraged when Dwyane Wade continued to warm up during the Canadian National anthem?
But that is not disrespectful, because it is not his country!

I always thought it was the Right who accused the left of being overly sensitive and easly offended?

[Jeremie Boop]

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

I think that advice works on a small scale, not really on a bigger scale. Offensiveness is generally personal. My calling you a "*^#@#%^&*" is meant to offend you, meant to belittle you. 
Protests are meant to outrage, but not cut deep in a personal sense. 

However in this case, how many people saw it as it happened? So the outrage is all after the fact. essentially we are outraged by something we did not see happen. We are outraged by hearing about what someone did.
Did Canada get this outraged when Dwyane Wade continued to warm up during the Canadian National anthem?
But that is not disrespectful, because it is not his country!

I always thought it was the Right who accused the left of being overly sensitive and easly offended?

?? Isn't this the case with probably 99% of all stories or instances of things people get outraged about? I'm not outraged or offended by what he did. Let him sit, it will have next to no real effect for his so called cause. As others have stated, if he or any of the other celebrities who talk about the supposed "oppression of blacks/minorities" actually put their their money where their mouths are they'd have a much much larger impact. Just like the "feed the starving children" or "help the homeless" campaigns led by these rich celebrities asking the average person to donate when they could completely finance the charities and pretty much not even notice it financially. But, yeah, let's sit down for the national anthem because the American flag is a symbol of "oppression" towards blacks and minorities.

[newtogolf]

8 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I think that advice works on a small scale, not really on a bigger scale. Offensiveness is generally personal. My calling you a "*^#@#%^&*" is meant to offend you, meant to belittle you. 
Protests are meant to outrage, but not cut deep in a personal sense. 

However in this case, how many people saw it as it happened? So the outrage is all after the fact. essentially we are outraged by something we did not see happen. We are outraged by hearing about what someone did.
Did Canada get this outraged when Dwyane Wade continued to warm up during the Canadian National anthem?
But that is not disrespectful, because it is not his country!

I always thought it was the Right who accused the left of being overly sensitive and easly offended?

Everyone in this country has the right to peaceful protest, but that doesn't insulate them from being considered disrespectful or from being criticized for their actions.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the timing of his protest a bit suspicious given he only chose to sit out the National Anthem when it was reported that he might lose his job at starting QB to Gabbert?  

What was the catalyst that made him sit in protest this past week but nor previous weeks?   He'd been interviewed throughout training camp, I don't recall any news stories where he spoke out about the oppression of African Americans or the actions of law enforcement.  

[Elmer]

10 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Everyone in this country has the right to peaceful protest, but that doesn't insulate them from being considered disrespectful or from being criticized for their actions.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the timing of his protest a bit suspicious given he only chose to sit out the National Anthem when it was reported that he might lose his job at starting QB to Gabbert?  

What was the catalyst that made him sit in protest this past week but nor previous weeks?   He'd been interviewed throughout training camp, I don't recall any news stories where he spoke out about the oppression of African Americans or the actions of law enforcement.  

He sat during the 1st preseason games as well. He was not dressed in uniform so no one noticed.

But this goes back to my earlier point. All these people are suddenly upset at Kaepernick for sitting during the anthem and this is the 3rd time he has done it.
http://deadspin.com/colin-kaepernick-explains-why-he-wont-stand-for-the-nat-1785873198 

Instead of discussing what the issue of what he is protesting, they are instead ranting about how he did it!

[Golfingdad]

41 minutes ago, Elmer said:

If someone fails to stand and no one sees it, is it still disrespectful?

We were at the Angels-Yankees game last Friday night and sometime in between innings they gave an award to a couple of military people, and per usual, the whole place gave them a standing O.  I had, however, just got situated with a helmet nachos in my lap, and was mustarding my sons hot dog so I was unable to stand.  Luckily nobody told me that I offended them.  Which could have very well been because nobody saw. :)

30 minutes ago, Elmer said:

However in this case, how many people saw it as it happened?

 

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the timing of his protest a bit suspicious given he only chose to sit out the National Anthem when it was reported that he might lose his job at starting QB to Gabbert?

This is hearsay, however, I read today that he's actually sat for the National Anthem for all of the preseason games this year, but supposedly he wasn't dressed for the previous ones so nobody actually noticed.

EDIT:  What @Elmer said. :)

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

We were at the Angels-Yankees game last Friday night and sometime in between innings they gave an award to a couple of military people, and per usual, the whole place gave them a standing O.  I had, however, just got situated with a helmet nachos in my lap, and was mustarding my sons hot dog so I was unable to stand.  Luckily nobody told me that I offended them.  Which could have very well been because nobody saw. :)

It's an unwritten rule that dads with helmet nachos do not have to stand.  You're okay.  

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

This is hearsay, however, I read today that he's actually sat for the National Anthem for all of the preseason games this year, but supposedly he wasn't dressed for the previous ones so nobody actually noticed.

This is the first time I heard he sat for the 1st game so if that's the case then clearly he had pre-meditated his decision to protest before the start of the season though I still question why he didn't speak out about it sooner.  

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, StefanUrkel said:

Supports Fidel Castro

So did Ted Cruz's dad. But that is OT. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

Basically.  Either you like something or you don't.  If you don't, move on.

No. Liking the entirety of your country, your government, etc. is not a binary state. You don't even like everything about your wife. Or children. Or golf.

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

Two articles from institutions known as bastions of liberal thought, thanks for the open minds guys.

@Gunther, never one to disappoint with that crap. More below…

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

Listen, if Jason Witten did the same to protest Obama's support of Planned Parenthood's illegal harvesting of fetus parts or his support of BLM killing cops, or the Supreme Court legalizing gay marriage, you who now support this action would vociferously oppose it.

You never give people enough credit.

Guess what? You can support a person's right to protest while completely disagreeing with whatever they're protesting.

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

Let's call it what it is.  It's strictly a left v right issue.  All of the responses here have been as predictable as if we were discussing Trump v Clinton.

It isn't. But your constant attempts to pigeonhole do more to divide than they do to gain understanding, find common ground, and discuss things intelligently. I'll call it like I see it - you're intellectually lazy when it comes to anything political. That's why I think you pigeonhole everything into "liberal" and "correct" (in your opinion).

And hey, I tend to vote Republican. We're probably more alike than you imagine, politically… except that I try to look at things separately, when I do take the time to consider it, while you seem to want to just pigeonhole and spout.

2 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

This doesn't fly with me.  You don't get to do something disrespectful, and then say you meant no disrespect....

Others have said it, but you can't "prove" that it's disrespectful. It's just your opinion. And anyone else's.

---

At the risk of making a post that's not "on topic" enough that I'd moderate it if it weren't my own post (though mods are and always have been free to moderate my posts as they see fit)… my thoughts on the matter include:

• I don't think it's disrespectful to sit. I think you should probably have a reason to sit, because if you garner attention for sitting you'd better have an answer as to why, not just "I don't know, stuff sucks here right now." He seems to have had a reason, so okay.
• Sitting is no different, IMO, than burning a flag. Protesting in front of Capitol Hill. If a "regular person" sits, nobody will care. A few people might say "what a jerk" in their minds, but they're not going to care if he has an issue. They will if a celebrity sits, so he used the fame to get his point across.
• I'm not entirely sure what he was protesting, so I don't know if I agree or disagree with him.
• I know people who support gay marriage but who oppose welfare. Or the opposite. IMO, things are rarely so clearly divided along party lines. I know military people who think what he did was terrible, and others who think it was a great expression of the freedom their fighting and work has allowed for.

As usual, since it's politics, I don't give it a whole ton of thought. But what little thoughts I've given it are right there.

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, Elmer said:

 

However in this case, how many people saw it as it happened? So the outrage is all after the fact. essentially we are outraged by something we did not see happen. We are outraged by hearing about what someone did.
 

 

Of course the outrage is after the fact.  As it is with most things.  Are you stating you would have to personally witness something as it happens to be outraged or disagree with it?

 

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Others have said it, but you can't "prove" that it's disrespectful. It's just your opinion. And anyone else's.

---

 

I don't believe it is something that can be "proved" either.  I don't think it needs to be.  If the majority of the military feels it is disrespectful, than I tend to agree with that.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I don't believe it is something that can be "proved" either.  I don't think it needs to be.  If the majority of the military feels it is disrespectful, than I tend to agree with that.

Of the six military guys I asked about it, five felt it was exactly the kind of thing they fought to protect and had no problem with it. The sixth said he thought it was disrespectful but said so is killing people and blowing shit up and the military does that itself.

Have you polled enough of the military to see whether it was seen as disrespectful by the majority?