How to get the hips moving in the backswing

[Sandhills Golfer]

It seems like a major flaw of most high handicaps is keeping the hips frozen in the backswing. I don't do this intentionally. Besides moving both the hips and shoulders together in the backswing (it helps)

are there any others ways to get the hips moving in the backswing for a fuller hip turn? Thx. 

[carpediem4300]

think "right pocket back"

[boogielicious]

On 11/18/2016 at 7:47 AM, Sandhills Golfe said:

It seems like a major flaw of most high handicaps is keeping the hips frozen in the backswing. I don't do this intentionally. Besides moving both the hips and shoulders together in the backswing (it helps)

are there any others ways to get the hips moving in the backswing for a fuller hip turn? Thx. 

 

On 11/18/2016 at 7:49 AM, carpediem4300 said:

think "right pocket back"

I think of more right back pocket moving around, up and then toward the target. This keeps the hips centered.

[Ernest Jones]

I don't think about it at all, but if I were trying to help someone with this, I'd probably suggest they try increasing flex in the lead knee while decreasing it in the trail knee. That should get hips rotating on an incline plane, which is what you want. 

[RandallT]

More info re hip movement:

 

[Strat-Pack Rick]

I know that when i make a conscious effort to rotate my hips in the backswing, my timing seems to be so much better. Turning in the barrel (hips too)not just your shoulders was a light bulb moment for me. My ball striking went up a level right then. Looking forward to 2017, gonna stay in the 80's all year. 79 being the ultimate achievement for me . TURN TURN TURN  got it !!!

.

[Rainmaker]

I have been a life-long hip under-rotator, lol . .but I've recently turned several corners in my golf swing and this is one of them.  To *me* it feels like all this time I have been semi-unconsciously trying to swing it back and through . .ie . .in a straight line.  Before you say "I don't do this" . .hang on a sec . .I didn't think I did, either.  I focused a lot on turning.   I had a pretty decent turn into my back swing.  It was the turning *after* impact that was severely lacking.  If I could go back in time and ask myself to honestly draw my swing shape - it would've looked a bit like a J . .or maybe even a J that was tipped back so that the straight part points slightly to right field.  

At a lesson . .about 2 lessons ago . .this clicked bigtime for me.  I realized I need to swing in a *circle* . .not a "J".  Maybe that means "swing more to the left" . .which I've heard but never really resonated with me . .I was always trying to swing more to the right.   But as soon as I started to make this circle my trajectories and quality of strike got way more consistent.  I started to change other things about my swing to "make a circle" instead of "make a J" and my hips started turning more and better, my head got steadier and I finally started to get the club to where I can really hit it with a flat left wrist and full extension.  

There are probably a ton of reasons why somebody might not turn their hips enough but, for me - that was the reason.  I was trying too much to swing out to right field - giving me the wrong "shape" of my swing in my head, forcing my hips to turn so as to make the shape I thought was right . .which would need less hip turn going back and almost none going through.  

[Sandhills Golfer]

5 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

I have been a life-long hip under-rotator, lol . .but I've recently turned several corners in my golf swing and this is one of them.  To *me* it feels like all this time I have been semi-unconsciously trying to swing it back and through . .ie . .in a straight line.  Before you say "I don't do this" . .hang on a sec . .I didn't think I did, either.  I focused a lot on turning.   I had a pretty decent turn into my back swing.  It was the turning *after* impact that was severely lacking.  If I could go back in time and ask myself to honestly draw my swing shape - it would've looked a bit like a J . .or maybe even a J that was tipped back so that the straight part points slightly to right field.  

At a lesson . .about 2 lessons ago . .this clicked bigtime for me.  I realized I need to swing in a *circle* . .not a "J".  Maybe that means "swing more to the left" . .which I've heard but never really resonated with me . .I was always trying to swing more to the right.   But as soon as I started to make this circle my trajectories and quality of strike got way more consistent.  I started to change other things about my swing to "make a circle" instead of "make a J" and my hips started turning more and better, my head got steadier and I finally started to get the club to where I can really hit it with a flat left wrist and full extension.  

There are probably a ton of reasons why somebody might not turn their hips enough but, for me - that was the reason.  I was trying too much to swing out to right field - giving me the wrong "shape" of my swing in my head, forcing my hips to turn so as to make the shape I thought was right . .which would need less hip turn going back and almost none going through.  

Great, post Rainmaker. Are you saying it is a J on both sides? Flipping the bottom of the J to the top?

[easyjay39402]

Years ago, when I had just retired and was under the illusion that I now could become a scratch golfer again, I took many lessons and practiced with great determination. But I had become stiff with age. The pro gave me a tip that has served me well, although it might only apply to my particular swing.

He suggested that as my first move in my backswing I turn my right hip a little, just to get it moving. Then my backswing continues as normal. 

I use a three count when I swing: 1 - turn right hip, 2 - backswing, 3 - forwardswing. The hip turn functions a bit like the old fashioned "waggle".

 

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, Sandhills Golfe said:

Great, post Rainmaker. Are you saying it is a J on both sides? Flipping the bottom of the J to the top?

No - it's hard to explain . . obviously it's impossible to swing in a true J shape but that was what my "effort" was . .the club only started moving left because I simply ran out of arms to keep it going right.  

Here is probably the worlds most horrible illustration.  The blue lines represent my feet.  The black line represents my "intentional" club path and the red line is just what happens after that . .ie . .because I'd fall over if I kept it going right.  EDIT . .just for those who don't read previous posts . .I'm saying this is *bad* lol.  

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Rainmaker

[Sandhills Golfer]

10 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

No - it's hard to explain . . obviously it's impossible to swing in a true J shape but that was what my "effort" was . .the club only started moving left because I simply ran out of arms to keep it going right.  

Here is probably the worlds most horrible illustration.  The blue lines represent my feet.  The black line represents my "intentional" club path and the red line is just what happens after that . .ie . .because I'd fall over if I kept it going right.  EDIT . .just for those who don't read previous posts . .I'm saying this is *bad* lol.  

 

Thanks!

[bm85]

Getting the hips turning better, and open at impact was quite a doozy for me. Helps to have a mirror and slow motion video (dtl/fo, and some rear views too). Then it's just a matter of drilling it into your movement over time.

It all depends on your athleticism I suppose, but it was particularly unnatural to me and took awhile. If you're practicing this and it isn't really weird/difficult - I'd be concerned I was not making any changes.

Eventually though, you will be recording some video while you're working on a completely different piece, and just notice your hips are moving really well, and are open at impact. #picturechange

[phillyk]

I use a drill with people when they are in their early stages of golfing.  I have them take a stance as if to address the ball, but they are holding a 8lb medicine ball.  The back swing in terms of hips/shift is like turning to the right to hand the ball off to someone to your right (if you're a righty).  If you pause there, I like to look at the 25*, 45*, and 90ish* degree turns of hips, waist, and shoulders respectively.

[thefinlex]

a great drill to check hip turn is to put an alignment stick/shaft thru loops in trousers for your belt either side of and across the belt buckle..does that make sense? when you take a practice swing it gives a great visual indication of how far you are/arent actually turning..It also gives a hint to whether you are tilting/dipping in the swing as well,certainly helped me a few years back,when my hips turn well everything is better! good luck

[Ernest Jones]

17 minutes ago, thefinlex said:

a great drill to check hip turn is to put an alignment stick/shaft thru loops in trousers for your belt either side of and across the belt buckle..does that make sense? when you take a practice swing it gives a great visual indication of how far you are/arent actually turning..It also gives a hint to whether you are tilting/dipping in the swing as well,certainly helped me a few years back,when my hips turn well everything is better! good luck

That is a very good drill. 

[Sandhills Golfer]

On 11/18/2016 at 7:47 AM, Sandhills Golfe said:

It seems like a major flaw of most high handicaps is keeping the hips frozen in the backswing. I don't do this intentionally. Besides moving both the hips and shoulders together in the backswing (it helps)

are there any others ways to get the hips moving in the backswing for a fuller hip turn? Thx. 

great, replies any others?

[natureboy]

On 11/23/2016 at 9:35 PM, Rainmaker said:

No - it's hard to explain . . obviously it's impossible to swing in a true J shape but that was what my "effort" was . .the club only started moving left because I simply ran out of arms to keep it going right.  

Here is probably the worlds most horrible illustration.  The blue lines represent my feet.  The black line represents my "intentional" club path and the red line is just what happens after that . .ie . .because I'd fall over if I kept it going right.  EDIT . .just for those who don't read previous posts . .I'm saying this is *bad* lol.  

It's understandable so not bad.

This made me think of something I recently read on Dave Tutelman's site about hand path differences between better / worse golfers studied by guys creating swing models.

Viewed face on, the better golfers had a wider radius hand path early in the downswing while the higher caps was tighter/narrower (smaller circle). Around impact the curvature of the hand path of the skilled players was tighter/narrower while the hand path for the lower skilled players was wider.

For the better players, the wider hand path in early downswing and tighter path through impact helped efficiently 'dump' the accumulated momentum of the club at the right time.

What's interesting to me with your diagram is that if I viewed the 3D path from face on, the hand path would seem to have a narrow curvature in the early downswing and a shallower / wider curvature around impact. Part of the better player hands slowing is the body bracing. But part of it may be the right swing shape concept that lets their left shoulder pull up and back on the club without their hands chasing out to the right as you describe?

Edited January 4, 2017 by natureboy

[Rainmaker]

5 hours ago, natureboy said:

It's understandable so not bad.

This made me think of something I recently read on Dave Tutelman's site about hand path differences between better / worse golfers studied by guys creating swing models.

Viewed face on, the better golfers had a wider radius hand path early in the downswing while the higher caps was tighter/narrower (smaller circle). Around impact the curvature of the hand path of the skilled players was tighter/narrower while the hand path for the lower skilled players was wider.

For the better players, the wider hand path in early downswing and tighter path through impact helped efficiently 'dump' the accumulated momentum of the club at the right time.

What's interesting to me with your diagram is that if I viewed the 3D path from face on, the hand path would seem to have a narrow curvature in the early downswing and a shallower / wider curvature around impact. Part of the better player hands slowing is the body bracing. But part of it may be the right swing shape concept that lets their left shoulder pull up and back on the club without their hands chasing out to the right as you describe?

Interesting observation .  . my teacher is a man of few words . . for example, he'll say "keep your left knee bent longer" . .and then I could literally write a thousand words, maybe draw a few diagrams,  about what that means to me, lol.   

Well . .the other thing he said on that lesson was "keep your hands closer", referring to my hands at and past impact.  

What I've noticed for me, though . .is I can't do any of this directly.  I can't "keep my left knee bent longer"...I can't "keep my hands closer".  These things feel arbitrary.  I have to find the right mental picture that makes these things happen.  Give them some context.  My teacher says the biggest obstacle to learning golf is "what we think we're doing is not what we're doing" . .but, for me, there's an awful lot of "what I think I saw, I didn't see" . .so I'm trying to do the wrong thing . .and then probably also not doing what I think I'm doing, lol.