Thoughts on purchasing a "hold-me-over" driver without being fitted?

[Showboat12]

To make a long story short, I'm thinking about using the holiday season and Nike's exit from the equipment industry as an excuse to pick up a Nike Vapor Fly or Nike Vapor Fly Pro at $150. I really just started playing last year, I've taken a handful of lessons since, and broke 100 once this season. My scores are typically in the 100 to 110 range and my current driver is a Ping G10 that was given to me.

I realize that as I practice and continue to take lessons, my swing has and will continue to change as I make an effort to shoot lower scores. I have hit some newer drivers, such as the Callaway XR, and really enjoyed them much more than my current driver. My question to you all is - would a driver upgrade such as the one described above benefit my game? I'd imagine some serious gains in driver technology have been made since the G10 was released in 2007. Is it a bad idea to purchase a driver without being fitted, even at this price point?

[Lagavulin62]

The technology for woods has improved but whether or not it makes a difference in your game, or any amateurs game, depends. All I can really say is it probably won't hurt. 

Don't know anything about those drivers but if you can get it into a loft and shaft combination that you are comfortable with there is nothing wrong with updating.  

Sometimes just a new look is enough to make all the difference in your game.  

 

 

 

[WUTiger]

Do a side-by-side on a launch monitor with the Nike drivers and your G10. Get a fitter to help you, and see what the numbers say.

Do you hit the G10 OK, or do you have trouble with it?  You haven't given us much to go on, as to why you want a new driver.

[Valleygolfer]

Drivers don't really have too much difference, at your skill level I would say it won't matter.  I switched drivers this year and although there were some obvious differents, the distance change was somewhat unnoticeable. I use the G10 fairway woods and really love them. Maybe sticking with the G10 is sufficient.

[Hardspoon]

My current driver is a Cobra S2, which is similar in age to the G10. I recently tested a few new drivers (M2, XR, M1) and found little or no improvement.  I was surprised.

It's not certain that the Nike will help you much, if at all. Driver tech hasn't advanced enough where a new club is a clear upgrade for all players.

[carpediem4300]

you will gain more accuracy/yardage but getting fitted properly for your existing driver, alot of off the shelf stuff is too long to promote "distance" all the amatuers want, but that sacrifices accuracy usually

having gone through 5 drivers since starting the game I can attest to them all performing pretty much the same, from my Titliest 910D2 to my current Nike Covert, however once i had the nike fitted to me it performs better than anything i have had, best £15 i spent, instead of £300 on a new one

[newtogolf]

Unless you get a really good price on the "hold me over" driver so you can resell it at a minimal loss I'd pass and wait to get fit properly.  I've wasted a lot of money on clubs that weren't fit properly for me.  

[cnl390]

My handicap is 33, and I commonly card at least one 10 or 11 per round.  So I am certainly not one to give advise, but I can lend my experience.  I have gone through several high end popular drivers which I purchased after seeing ads, watching commercials, reading forum posts, etc.,  What I didn't do was hit several and compare the results, or get fitted.  As a result I literally dreaded hitting my driver.

Then I decided to get serious (or at least semi) and went to Golfsmith and tried several drivers on their launch monitor with the fitter (i.e. employee/saleman) and settled on a Ping G30 SF Tec.  This made a world of difference.  I started hitting my drives really well.  Not perfect, but a heck of a lot better than what I was used to.  Then I started taking lessons, and after a few lessons I went to professional fitter and we ended up changing the shaft.

 I am still working on the rest of my game (as evidenced by my handicap), but now I can't wait to get in the tee box.  I am hitting 70% of fairways and distance has gone from 190-210 to 220-238.  As matter of fact during our post round beer drinking sessions my buddies are always talking about how well I am hitting my drives. 

 

[Patch]

I don't much about equipment, especially Nike stuff. My question would be, are these Nike drivers the OP wants adjustable? Can the heads be adjusted for lie angle? This assuming they come with the right shaft flex. 

If the heads can be adjusted as the OP's swing changes, then I see no problem with a purchase. 

I once bought a top of the line driver at a great price just to get the head part of it. I then put a cheapie shaft on it that fit my specs. Had a great run with it until I wore it out. 

[Foot Wedge]

@cnl390 gave a pretty good suggestion.  There’s all sorts of responses based on where you’re at in your game.  I started swapping out clubs in my hand me down set for ones that better suited my game as I got more serious throughout the past 14-16 months.  You mentioned your scores but where are the extra strokes coming from?  Are you pounding balls down the fairway only to miss approaches and 4 putt for a 7?  Or are you slicing drives into trouble leaving you with a putt for double bogey.  I understand those are extremes and it’s probably the latter since you’re considering a new driver. 

What I’m getting at is to change your equipment based on your improvements you’re making to help establish those improvements rather than good prices and newer technology.  I’m not saying this from my high horse, rather as someone who is guilty of wanting to do that and has been advised against it.  Worked on my chipping/pitching.  Then bought new wedges that suited my tendencies and distances AFTER testing them.  Then I worked on improving my swing and swingpath consistency to address the big slices I was hitting.  Got it down to a controlled fade before trying out several drivers and getting the one I hit straightest and most consistently.  We all know it’s the indian not the arrow, but there’s nothing wrong with buying equipment that works with you not against you.  The driver I had was a clearance driver with a random shaft I had thrown on when I discovered I needed a stiff shaft instead of regular.  Could I blame big slices on it? No.  Could I say it was an ill-fitting driver after working on that aspect of my game?  Possibly.  So I hit a bunch of drivers and realized there is one that is definitely better FOR ME.  I mentioned I was guilty of being swayed by price…I really wanted to like the Cobra F6, mainly because there were great deals on it.  But the Callaway GBB simply worked better for me, so I had to shell out the extra money for it.

To answer your question, a driver change COULD benefit your game.  But you have to define what you want to improve and test equipment for improvement in that department regardless of price.  My personal opinion is that I didn't need to get fitted, but I wanted to know how the club performed in my hands.  Try it out, you may love it, or you may hate it, so it's better to know what it'll do for you before paying.

[jkelley9]

I shoot low 80's and I have been really liking my swing lately. But I can (and have) taken out my complete set of old clubs and had nearly the same results with them, just for funsies. And the two sets are fairly "vastly" different in most peoples' view.

My personal belief is that good golf shots are 95% technique, 5% equipment. So at the lower levels I feel like it's a waste of money to find a specific drive/irons or whatever when it comes to things like brand, loft, "feel", sound, etc. with the whole full fitting deal. 

I feel like the most important things to have are taking wrist-to-floor measurements, finding your shaft length, and using cavity back irons. Even flex and stuff I don't feel is that important. My current flex is stiff and my old is regular. I can play both nearly the same.

I started with a Callaway diablo octane driver standard length regular flex 10.5-deg and learned to hit it. Moved to an R11 regular flex standard length and learned to hit it. Moved to an R1 and learned to hit it, I ended up doing my wrist to floor measurement there and ended up cutting 1/2" off the R1 but otherwise didn't change anything else. I learned into the clubs, I didn't fit the clubs to me. In the process, I learned some important swing mechanics and now I can hit most drivers without much trouble (unless I'm having a bad spout, but my point is that it's not equipment related).

Even shooting in the 80's I don't feel like I need to go get my lie angles, launch points, lofts, or any of that messed with. It might save me a stroke or two sure, but I'm still getting better without it and I don't feel like I'll really benefit until I'm really breaking into the 70's.

[Lagavulin62]

I agree with jkelly on this, except I do think loft on a driver can really make a difference. Other than that it's important you have equipment that fits a proper swing and takes into account your basic dimensions.  

The problem I have with clubfitters and corrective clubs is that if you make any improvements you have to upgrade. Of course if you had started with clubs built to fit a proper swing you wouldn't have to upgrade unless you just wanted better quality. I see many new golfers who have spent a good dollar on clubs to fix a problem that should be fixed with lessons and time on the range. I feel bad for them because how can a person fix a slice playing clubs with 2 degrees of closed face, not to mention improvement heads so large there is virtually no feel regardless of how they hit the shot. It is very hard to make the proper adjustments when you can't get feedback to what a solid shot feels and looks like. There is way too much emphasis on those machines. Using data obtained from hitting clubs you are not accustomed to on a fake surface with no indication of how the total shot played out is risky. Best case scenerio, take it with a grain of salt.  

The game must be very frustrating for new golfers with spare change? It was easier growing up in the early 70's playing with cut down clubs. We never knew the lofts of our clubs, the shaft stiffness(they were metal, they didn't bend), and surely not the lie. When you wanted to borrow a 5 iron you just knew they were all the same. I mean a 5 iron was a 5 iron. And when we made a poor shot, we knew something bad happened in our swing. We NEVER questioned any other possibility. And we learned to play the game and had a blast doing it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jkelley9]

23 minutes ago, Lagavulin62 said:

The game must be very frustrating for new golfers with spare change? It was easier growing up in the early 70's playing with cut down clubs. We never knew the lofts of our clubs, the shaft stiffness(they were metal, they didn't bend), and surely not the lie. When you wanted to borrow a 5 iron you just knew they were all the same. I mean a 5 iron was a 5 iron. And when we made a poor shot, we knew something bad happened in our swing. We NEVER questioned any other possibility. And we learned to play the game and had a blast doing it.  

Lol, I didn't even know SW/LW/AW had different loft ranges for the longest time. I thought my SW distance was pretty bad @ 75 yards full shot then I found out I have a 55-deg (not 56 like I thought) and I felt even worse! haha.

Meh, but at least I like the club  SW is my jam.

[Showboat12]

On 11/19/2016 at 7:31 PM, Lagavulin62 said:

The technology for woods has improved but whether or not it makes a difference in your game, or any amateurs game, depends. All I can really say is it probably won't hurt. 

Don't know anything about those drivers but if you can get it into a loft and shaft combination that you are comfortable with there is nothing wrong with updating.  

Sometimes just a new look is enough to make all the difference in your game.  

 

 

 

I definitely agree on the loft and shaft combination piece. Part of the reason why I was considering the Vapor is due to the adjustable loft feature. Likewise, I tend to prefer a stiff shaft. My current G10 has a regular flex shaft.

On 11/19/2016 at 7:57 PM, WUTiger said:

Do a side-by-side on a launch monitor with the Nike drivers and your G10. Get a fitter to help you, and see what the numbers say.

Do you hit the G10 OK, or do you have trouble with it?  You haven't given us much to go on, as to why you want a new driver.

That would be the ideal way to go about it, but living in NYC it is much harder to get to a launch monitor and hit clubs... unless I want to pay $125 for a driver fitting.

I biggest issue with the G10 is that it is a G10 Draw model and the G10 has a slightly longer than average shaft. I'd prefer to learn the game without an aid-style driver and I'm only 5' 6" so the longer shaft can be a bit annoying for me.

On 11/19/2016 at 9:21 PM, Valleygolfer said:

Drivers don't really have too much difference, at your skill level I would say it won't matter.  I switched drivers this year and although there were some obvious differents, the distance change was somewhat unnoticeable. I use the G10 fairway woods and really love them. Maybe sticking with the G10 is sufficient.

I have the G10 fairway woods as well, but have not given them a real shot to decide if I like them more than the Nikes which are currently in my bag. Thanks for the input!

On 11/20/2016 at 7:40 AM, Hardspoon said:

My current driver is a Cobra S2, which is similar in age to the G10. I recently tested a few new drivers (M2, XR, M1) and found little or no improvement.  I was surprised.

It's not certain that the Nike will help you much, if at all. Driver tech hasn't advanced enough where a new club is a clear upgrade for all players.

Appreciate the input - thanks!

On 11/21/2016 at 10:42 AM, carpediem4300 said:

you will gain more accuracy/yardage but getting fitted properly for your existing driver, alot of off the shelf stuff is too long to promote "distance" all the amatuers want, but that sacrifices accuracy usually

having gone through 5 drivers since starting the game I can attest to them all performing pretty much the same, from my Titliest 910D2 to my current Nike Covert, however once i had the nike fitted to me it performs better than anything i have had, best £15 i spent, instead of £300 on a new one

Appreciate the input - thanks!

On 11/21/2016 at 0:54 PM, newtogolf said:

Unless you get a really good price on the "hold me over" driver so you can resell it at a minimal loss I'd pass and wait to get fit properly.  I've wasted a lot of money on clubs that weren't fit properly for me.  

Golf Galaxy was having a 15% off flash sale last night which put the Vapor Fly at $128. At that price, I think it is a pretty great deal but I definitely understand where you're coming from.

On 11/22/2016 at 8:35 AM, cnl390 said:

My handicap is 33, and I commonly card at least one 10 or 11 per round.  So I am certainly not one to give advise, but I can lend my experience.  I have gone through several high end popular drivers which I purchased after seeing ads, watching commercials, reading forum posts, etc.,  What I didn't do was hit several and compare the results, or get fitted.  As a result I literally dreaded hitting my driver.

Then I decided to get serious (or at least semi) and went to Golfsmith and tried several drivers on their launch monitor with the fitter (i.e. employee/saleman) and settled on a Ping G30 SF Tec.  This made a world of difference.  I started hitting my drives really well.  Not perfect, but a heck of a lot better than what I was used to.  Then I started taking lessons, and after a few lessons I went to professional fitter and we ended up changing the shaft.

 I am still working on the rest of my game (as evidenced by my handicap), but now I can't wait to get in the tee box.  I am hitting 70% of fairways and distance has gone from 190-210 to 220-238.  As matter of fact during our post round beer drinking sessions my buddies are always talking about how well I am hitting my drives. 

 

I took a couple lessons that have me driving much better as well and I realize that is the best way to go about this. I also tried to go to Golfsmith here in NYC, but their launch monitor area was filled with crap as a result of the inevitable buyout / going out of business sale.

On 11/22/2016 at 9:22 AM, Patch said:

I don't much about equipment, especially Nike stuff. My question would be, are these Nike drivers the OP wants adjustable? Can the heads be adjusted for lie angle? This assuming they come with the right shaft flex. 

If the heads can be adjusted as the OP's swing changes, then I see no problem with a purchase. 

I once bought a top of the line driver at a great price just to get the head part of it. I then put a cheapie shaft on it that fit my specs. Had a great run with it until I wore it out. 

It is adjustable which, in conjunction with cost, is what I find so appealing about the Vapor Fly. I want something that can change with me and that I can grow into.

On 11/22/2016 at 9:37 AM, caddystacks said:

@cnl390 gave a pretty good suggestion.  There’s all sorts of responses based on where you’re at in your game.  I started swapping out clubs in my hand me down set for ones that better suited my game as I got more serious throughout the past 14-16 months.  You mentioned your scores but where are the extra strokes coming from?  Are you pounding balls down the fairway only to miss approaches and 4 putt for a 7?  Or are you slicing drives into trouble leaving you with a putt for double bogey.  I understand those are extremes and it’s probably the latter since you’re considering a new driver. 

What I’m getting at is to change your equipment based on your improvements you’re making to help establish those improvements rather than good prices and newer technology.  I’m not saying this from my high horse, rather as someone who is guilty of wanting to do that and has been advised against it.  Worked on my chipping/pitching.  Then bought new wedges that suited my tendencies and distances AFTER testing them.  Then I worked on improving my swing and swingpath consistency to address the big slices I was hitting.  Got it down to a controlled fade before trying out several drivers and getting the one I hit straightest and most consistently.  We all know it’s the indian not the arrow, but there’s nothing wrong with buying equipment that works with you not against you.  The driver I had was a clearance driver with a random shaft I had thrown on when I discovered I needed a stiff shaft instead of regular.  Could I blame big slices on it? No.  Could I say it was an ill-fitting driver after working on that aspect of my game?  Possibly.  So I hit a bunch of drivers and realized there is one that is definitely better FOR ME.  I mentioned I was guilty of being swayed by price…I really wanted to like the Cobra F6, mainly because there were great deals on it.  But the Callaway GBB simply worked better for me, so I had to shell out the extra money for it.

To answer your question, a driver change COULD benefit your game.  But you have to define what you want to improve and test equipment for improvement in that department regardless of price.  My personal opinion is that I didn't need to get fitted, but I wanted to know how the club performed in my hands.  Try it out, you may love it, or you may hate it, so it's better to know what it'll do for you before paying.

Agreed, this makes sense. Thanks!

On 11/22/2016 at 10:55 AM, jkelley9 said:

I shoot low 80's and I have been really liking my swing lately. But I can (and have) taken out my complete set of old clubs and had nearly the same results with them, just for funsies. And the two sets are fairly "vastly" different in most peoples' view.

My personal belief is that good golf shots are 95% technique, 5% equipment. So at the lower levels I feel like it's a waste of money to find a specific drive/irons or whatever when it comes to things like brand, loft, "feel", sound, etc. with the whole full fitting deal. 

I feel like the most important things to have are taking wrist-to-floor measurements, finding your shaft length, and using cavity back irons. Even flex and stuff I don't feel is that important. My current flex is stiff and my old is regular. I can play both nearly the same.

I started with a Callaway diablo octane driver standard length regular flex 10.5-deg and learned to hit it. Moved to an R11 regular flex standard length and learned to hit it. Moved to an R1 and learned to hit it, I ended up doing my wrist to floor measurement there and ended up cutting 1/2" off the R1 but otherwise didn't change anything else. I learned into the clubs, I didn't fit the clubs to me. In the process, I learned some important swing mechanics and now I can hit most drivers without much trouble (unless I'm having a bad spout, but my point is that it's not equipment related).

Even shooting in the 80's I don't feel like I need to go get my lie angles, launch points, lofts, or any of that messed with. It might save me a stroke or two sure, but I'm still getting better without it and I don't feel like I'll really benefit until I'm really breaking into the 70's.

Appreciate the input - thanks!

On 11/22/2016 at 2:19 PM, Lagavulin62 said:

I agree with jkelly on this, except I do think loft on a driver can really make a difference. Other than that it's important you have equipment that fits a proper swing and takes into account your basic dimensions.  

The problem I have with clubfitters and corrective clubs is that if you make any improvements you have to upgrade. Of course if you had started with clubs built to fit a proper swing you wouldn't have to upgrade unless you just wanted better quality. I see many new golfers who have spent a good dollar on clubs to fix a problem that should be fixed with lessons and time on the range. I feel bad for them because how can a person fix a slice playing clubs with 2 degrees of closed face, not to mention improvement heads so large there is virtually no feel regardless of how they hit the shot. It is very hard to make the proper adjustments when you can't get feedback to what a solid shot feels and looks like. There is way too much emphasis on those machines. Using data obtained from hitting clubs you are not accustomed to on a fake surface with no indication of how the total shot played out is risky. Best case scenerio, take it with a grain of salt.  

The game must be very frustrating for new golfers with spare change? It was easier growing up in the early 70's playing with cut down clubs. We never knew the lofts of our clubs, the shaft stiffness(they were metal, they didn't bend), and surely not the lie. When you wanted to borrow a 5 iron you just knew they were all the same. I mean a 5 iron was a 5 iron. And when we made a poor shot, we knew something bad happened in our swing. We NEVER questioned any other possibility. And we learned to play the game and had a blast doing it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been taking lessons and part of the reason why I want to ditch the G10 is because the G10 Draw is a corrective club. The fact that the Vapor Fly is so adjustable is extremely appealing because, to your point, I can make adjustments as I improve.

 

[carpediem4300]

If the reason for your purchase is because you have a corrective club and you want a "normal" club with the option to dial in to your swing and as it changes then i think that is a safe reason to buy, but still get it fit for length/shaft flex/kick point etc, then as your swing improves your can increase/decrease loft/lie etc

[WUTiger]

20 hours ago, Showboat12 said:

I biggest issue with the G10 is that it is a G10 Draw model and the G10 has a slightly longer than average shaft. I'd prefer to learn the game without an aid-style driver and I'm only 5' 6" so the longer shaft can be a bit annoying for me.

If you're having trouble missing left with the G10, you might get it regripped with the alignment indicator set 1 degree open. This might help you if problem is "too much left."

20 hours ago, Showboat12 said:

I have the G10 fairway woods as well, but have not given them a real shot to decide if I like them more than the Nikes which are currently in my bag.

If you have Nike FWs and hit them OK, this really changes things. Do the Nike FWs have a similar look-setup to the drivers from the Vapor Fly family? Having all the long clubs from the same model or similar models can be helpful for common alignment look. Since the Vapor has adjustable loft, you could tweak it.

Next, you noted you like the Vapor driver had a stiff shaft. What flex do you have in the Nike FWs?

On launch monitor: If you're getting a Vapor family driver that's not used (like you would be first owner), the golf shops often do the fitting for free if you buy a new (i.e., unused) driver. See what you can negotiate.

To summarize my ramblings, here are some questions:

• Can you hit your G10 Draw driver OK, or do you miss left?
• Can you hit your Nike FWs OK? What model are they? What is the shaft type, and flex?
• Do the Vapor Fly drivers have a similar look/set-up to your Nike FWs? Do you have any idea how far you hit the Vapor Fly drivers?

Also... you have 10 posts now. Consider setting up a sig line area, and putting in the club mix you carry in your bag. This will give us a better idea of where you're at for equipment, and clues on how you approach the game.

[Tim Williamson]

I replaced my Taylormade Burner Superfast 2.0 with a Nike Vaporfly driver with regular flex. My swing speed was recently measured at 79 mph. I extended the Nike 1.5". I feel that I'm hitting it longer and straighter than the Taylormade driver. 

[madmike75]

If you are serious about improving your game I think maybe you should spend the money on a couple lessons before replacing your driver. As you refine your swing a little you will see an increase in distance and better shot dispersion. As for the g10 you are playing, it is still one heck of a driver. As a previous poster said you can have the club opened to take away the draw bias if needed.