My Swing (Blackjack Don)

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

One of my swing thoughts is "take the club back by starting the hip turn."

So long as it's not the hip sway, and the hip TURN is what you're doing (wall drill stuff), then sure.

6 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

Michael Breed on the Golf Fix said the angle of the club at belt high should be parallel to the angle of the spine. I have been practicing the chain drill, or starting the club toe up, finishing at waist level toe up. Which of these is correct? Or does it matter? Is the a style more than a dynamic?

I wouldn't worry about that right now.

[Blackjack Don]

Mike, what about the teachers who teach "toe pointing up" on the back swing at waist level? Is this "old school" and new data has shown that a "closed face" at waist level is superior? Why? 

I can do it either way. I just get confused by the different directions.

Today, I had my third really good practice in a row. I gotta get some video. It's pouring here in Las Vegas--much like L.A. I want to see how it's looking now.

I worked on my hip turn, right elbow tucking in on the down swing. Trying to get my hands or left forearm to rotate and shallow out the club to come inside on the downswing. It feels better, and the results are better, but still inconsistent. 

I'm still not getting my left arm/left wrist as solid at impact as I want. I saw pictures of Rahmbo today and his left wrist is even slightly pronated. I wish. The left side collapse is my Achilles heel. Gotta keep getting stronger on the left side.

It took a long time to get my grip right. Posture is a constant struggle. Just the basics are really hard to put together, so the slightest adjustment is still ahead. Someday my swing might be automatic. Then I can buy Lowest Score Wins, hit more fairways, and have a lot more fun. I can see it in the distance. 

I'm starting to feel differences, where it goes off, which is still nearly every swing.

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

So long as it's not the hip sway, and the hip TURN is what you're doing (wall drill stuff), then sure.

I wouldn't worry about that right now.

Yes. I start the backswing with my right hip turning. Taking the club away as straight back as I can. I think once my hip turn is on autopilot, I can concentrate on starting the backswing with my left shoulder, concentrating on rotating the spine and spine angles. Down the road.

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

I wouldn't worry about that right now.

I worry about everything. 

Part of my problem package is squaring the club face at impact. I cannot feel where the face is when I swing. I realize that's down the road, but my slice has been so persistent it makes me wonder if the angle of the club face at take away is part of the slice, leaving the face open at impact. But, as you said, probably need to get the hip turn-no sway resolved, as well as B. C. and D.

[mvmac]

24 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Mike, what about the teachers who teach "toe pointing up" on the back swing at waist level? Is this "old school" and new data has shown that a "closed face" at waist level is superior? Why? 

It comes from a misunderstanding of what square is. Now there are good players that are toe up at that point, it's just the takeaway so you have a fair bit of time to "correct" the mistake. It's not a "must" but it makes more sense not to rotate it open and IMO you see most good players with it more "down" than "up".

24 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I worked on my hip turn, right elbow tucking in on the down swing. Trying to get my hands or left forearm to rotate and shallow out the club to come inside on the downswing. It feels better, and the results are better, but still inconsistent. 

Getting the hips to TURN and not sway will help, think about it, by creating more depth it'll be easier to swing outward. If you sway the hips back you'll be more prone to swing across it.

Talk about that more here

24 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I'm still not getting my left arm/left wrist as solid at impact as I want.

It's going to take time, took me years and I'm still working on it.

Also remember that you don't actively "do" anything at impact to achieve the good wrist angles, they're created by the stuff that comes before it.

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Mike, what about the teachers who teach "toe pointing up" on the back swing at waist level? Is this "old school" and new data has shown that a "closed face" at waist level is superior? Why? 

Don't worry about it. Your brain has limited capacity to worry about and fix these kinds of things.

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I can do it either way. I just get confused by the different directions.

For now do it whatever way feels easiest so you can focus on other more important things.

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I'm still not getting my left arm/left wrist as solid at impact as I want. I saw pictures of Rahmbo today and his left wrist is even slightly pronated. I wish. The left side collapse is my Achilles heel. Gotta keep getting stronger on the left side.

One thing at a time.

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

It took a long time to get my grip right. Posture is a constant struggle. Just the basics are really hard to put together, so the slightest adjustment is still ahead. Someday my swing might be automatic. Then I can buy Lowest Score Wins, hit more fairways, and have a lot more fun. I can see it in the distance.

If you're waiting to buy the book until your swing is automatic, then I'll be the first to tell you you'll never be buying it. Which is fine.

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Yes. I start the backswing with my right hip turning. Taking the club away as straight back as I can. I think once my hip turn is on autopilot, I can concentrate on starting the backswing with my left shoulder, concentrating on rotating the spine and spine angles. Down the road.

The club doesn't go straight back, btw.

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I worry about everything. 

You can't.

29 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Part of my problem package is squaring the club face at impact. I cannot feel where the face is when I swing. I realize that's down the road, but my slice has been so persistent it makes me wonder if the angle of the club face at take away is part of the slice, leaving the face open at impact. But, as you said, probably need to get the hip turn-no sway resolved, as well as B. C. and D.

You slice because you swing too far left. The ball is probably not starting way right and then slicing.

[boogielicious]

@Blackjack Don,

I can take a while, but you have to clear your head of all the extraneous tip, vids, articles, etc.. Work on one thing at a time while practicing, your priority piece. It is very easy to let all the other stuff get in your thoughts while practicing. When you play, and things go wrong, you start second guessing what you're working on. Then at the next practice, you start tinkering. That will just make it take longer to correct the issue.

I know from experience because I fought it for a while. Let it go. Use your mindfulness approach and do it one step at a time.

[Blackjack Don]

16 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Use your mindfulness approach and do it one step at a time.

[billchao]

52 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

@Blackjack Don,

I can take a while, but you have to clear your head of all the extraneous tip, vids, articles, etc.. Work on one thing at a time while practicing, your priority piece. It is very easy to let all the other stuff get in your thoughts while practicing. When you play, and things go wrong, you start second guessing what you're working on. Then at the next practice, you start tinkering. That will just make it take longer to correct the issue.

I know from experience because I fought it for a while. Let it go. Use your mindfulness approach and do it one step at a time.

Just to add to what Scott said here, often fixing your priority piece will fix other flaws in the swing that you aren't actively working to change. Flaws are compensations and once you eliminate the bigger problem, some of the smaller compensations will go away. That's why there's no map or plan for a swing - you need to see how the change affects the swing, then address the next piece.

Trying to work on a bunch of things wrong with your swing directly at the same time is kind of counterproductive. If you flip, you need to fix the root cause, not the flip itself. That'd be like trying to cure an illness by only addressing the symptoms. 

[JonMA1]

@Blackjack Don, I feel your pain in regards to all the thoughts and information.

You have a bad or practice session and you start thinking about how to fix it. So you start trying different things to fix your seemingly inability to make decent contact on a regular basis.

Or, things are going well for several shots in a row when you abruptly start hitting low slices to the right. So you wonder, are they shanks or am I leaving the face wide open. You might start wondering about something unrelated to the priority piece...

The only advice I can give is to listen to the guys above (even if I have problems following the advice myself). Also, don't expect improvement to last without constantly working on it. Look at Mike's swing thread. The guy shoots near scratch and he still works like hell to maintain improvement. Same with those guys who shoot in the low teens.

Have faith that working on the priority piece will help. While practicing it, don't allow poor shot results to screw with your focus. 

As far as encouragement, understand that your hand-eye coordination is improving everyday. At some point, the priority work will pay off. That doesn't mean you will master it and suddenly drop 5 strokes, only that it has gotten to the point where something else will need more work.

I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I fail to follow the advice above. I don't suck at golf, I suck at proper practice.

[Blackjack Don]

18 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I don't suck at golf, I suck at proper practice.

Once I understand how you do that, I'm sure I'll be much better than I am. 

Hopefully, I can also get across how much fun I'm having. I'm sixty-one, so finding something so enjoyable is, well, a real joy. I can't wait to go to the range this morning and get to work. I love hitting balls. I love 'em when they go straight. I love 'em when they stay in the general direction. I even smile when I say "Damn, Don!" and then "shit happens." In fact, I should ask my wife to knit a headcover for me that says, "Shit happens." I know in golf, it does. All the time. Even for the best.

I'm a crazy person. I once had fifty bonsai trees. I got into poker, was as obsessed with poker as I was with bonsai. I moved to Vegas, played every day, and owned three-shelves of books about poker. Now, it's golf. I learned patience by playing poker. You can't play every hand and win. You have to be patient. I started my meditation practice in order to stop the mood swings from high to low to high to low, etc etc etc. I hit a bad shot, and it's on to the next one. (I get frustrated and upset and angry, but then I let it go. I practice it.)

When it comes to my own experience learning golf, I am able to really focus on what's going on in my head. I have a bit of time practicing that, too. I have lots of swing thoughts. I focus on one or two at a time, for a few balls. Then I realize something else has dropped, and I keep that thought in mind. My goal is for each of these swing thoughts to get enough practice, enough repetitions over time, to become ingrained. I've taught tennis and skiing. I learned that while everyone expects instant fixes, the truth is everything takes longer than we expect. The ones with patience and passion stick with it. We're seeing results every day. It's just getting so much easier. 

When I first started six months ago, I could not turn. My hips went straight back and straight forward. I came over the top even with an inside out swing. My stance too narrow, my posture too crouched. I still lack balance, but that's a fact of age as much as anything. I didn't know we lose balance so early. We have come a long, long way. Pretty quickly, too. Very pleased.

Many, many thanks for all the help I've received here. Hopefully I can pay the universe back.

Namasakan, which is Thai for namaste. Peace, all. Gracias!

 

[Ernest Jones]

17 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Once I understand how you do that, I'm sure I'll be much better than I am. 

Hopefully, I can also get across how much fun I'm having. I'm sixty-one, so finding something so enjoyable is, well, a real joy. I can't wait to go to the range this morning and get to work. I love hitting balls. I love 'em when they go straight. I love 'em when they stay in the general direction. I even smile when I say "Damn, Don!" and then "shit happens." In fact, I should ask my wife to knit a headcover for me that says, "Shit happens." I know in golf, it does. All the time. Even for the best.

I'm a crazy person. I once had fifty bonsai trees. I got into poker, was as obsessed with poker as I was with bonsai. I moved to Vegas, played every day, and owned three-shelves of books about poker. Now, it's golf. I learned patience by playing poker. You can't play every hand and win. You have to be patient. I started my meditation practice in order to stop the mood swings from high to low to high to low, etc etc etc. I hit a bad shot, and it's on to the next one. (I get frustrated and upset and angry, but then I let it go. I practice it.)

When it comes to my own experience learning golf, I am able to really focus on what's going on in my head. I have a bit of time practicing that, too. I have lots of swing thoughts. I focus on one or two at a time, for a few balls. Then I realize something else has dropped, and I keep that thought in mind. My goal is for each of these swing thoughts to get enough practice, enough repetitions over time, to become ingrained. I've taught tennis and skiing. I learned that while everyone expects instant fixes, the truth is everything takes longer than we expect. The ones with patience and passion stick with it. We're seeing results every day. It's just getting so much easier. 

When I first started six months ago, I could not turn. My hips went straight back and straight forward. I came over the top even with an inside out swing. My stance too narrow, my posture too crouched. I still lack balance, but that's a fact of age as much as anything. I didn't know we lose balance so early. We have come a long, long way. Pretty quickly, too. Very pleased.

Many, many thanks for all the help I've received here. Hopefully I can pay the universe back.

Namasakan, which is Thai for namaste. Peace, all. Gracias!

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but are you taking lessons with a good coach?

Have you considered signing up for a few Evolvr lessons? Even just one lesson from them will at least a give you that ONE priority piece to focus on. It's really hard to ID it on your own. 

I still have the same priority piece that Erik and Dave gave me 3-4 years ago. It's a downswing piece. I tinker with one or two backswing thoughts as well, but really, it's all about that one piece. The better I do that piece, the better I am at golf - period. 

Untill you know what the piece is for YOU, you're just spinning your wheels. You may still get there eventually (you may not too), but you'll waste a hell of a lot of gas getting there. 

Good luck. 

[Blackjack Don]

4 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I haven't read the whole thread, but are you taking lessons with a good coach?

Yes. We're only two lessons in, but the difference is noticeable. Thanks.

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, billchao said:

Just to add to what Scott said here, often fixing your priority piece will fix other flaws in the swing that you aren't actively working to change.

Right.

@Blackjack Don, the priorities that have been recommended to you take impact into consideration, otherwise there is not point in doing it. Most of the improvements you'll make to impact will be a result from working on other pieces.

3 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

We're only two lessons in, but the difference is noticeable.

Your instructor has to address this though. You can't create good impact alignments from here.

 

[Ernest Jones]

15 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Right.

@Blackjack Don, the priorities that have been recommended to you take impact into consideration, otherwise there is not point in doing it. Most of the improvements you'll make to impact will be a result from working on other pieces.

Your instructor has to address this though. You can't create good impact alignments from here.

 

Yeah, that looks like a improper interpretation of Stack and Tilt. @Blackjack Don, is your instructor an SnT advocate? Nothing wrong with that patern (stack and tilt), but it is often taught wrong. 

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

Yeah, that looks like a improper interpretation of Stack and Tilt. @Blackjack Don, is your instructor an SnT advocate? Nothing wrong with that patern (stack and tilt), but it is often taught wrong. 

I doubt it. I think it's just what position a lot of people get into with a little hip sway.

[Blackjack Don]

57 minutes ago, iacas said:

I doubt it. I think it's just what position a lot of people get into with a little hip sway.

Indeed. I guess my priority will become hip turn. Get the sway out! 

I don't know what "stack and tilt" are, having run into and avoided it so far. I'm sticking with the 5 SK's/Bobby Clampett system. To me it is a system, or part of a system. I think they are saying the same thing. In fact, I think most golf instruction has the basics the same. Those who don't are trying a long cut back to the original. There are no short cuts. There never are. I may not know golf, but I'm sure of this one.

And thanks for reminding me...

1 hour ago, mvmac said:

Most of the improvements you'll make to impact will be a result from working on other pieces.

Could you elaborate on the other pieces which address impact? Thanks. 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Could you elaborate on the other pieces which address impact? Thanks. 

EVERY piece a good instructor gives you ultimately addresses impact.

Read what he wrote again perhaps. The whole point of instruction is to change the way someone strikes the ball. It's the whole point of a golf swing.

[Blackjack Don]

Okay, I get that part. I wouldn't argue that point at all. I'm still gathering all the parts of the full swing. There are a lot of moving parts, aren't there? But I do get that everyone who knows what they are doing is contributing, even when it's later discarded.

So sorry, man, but if I can't figure out the system, I'm going to find it much harder to make the system work as a whole. Missing pieces and the whole thing will fall apart. One thing leads to another, then to another--from when we step up to the ball until we finish, as long as the finish isn't cut off--it's a process with a lot of moving parts. I'm not sure if I have them all, yet, and which ones are more important than others.

For instance, where are you on aiming point? Forward divot? Hitting down on the ball? Is that important if the angle is too steep? The left arm isn't on plane? Etc etc. Everything has to flow, but there are many parts to practice individually, no?

We think statically. This is how the brain operates. The swing is dynamic, and happens faster than the conscious mind can handle. It has to be done by the autopilot. We practice one thing at a time, so the mind doesn't have to intercede. It "knows."

That's what I think. I could be wrong, but not so much about how the mind works.

[Ernest Jones]

47 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Indeed. I guess my priority will become hip turn. Get the sway out! 

I don't know what "stack and tilt" are, having run into and avoided it so far. I'm sticking with the 5 SK's/Bobby Clampett system. To me it is a system, or part of a system. I think they are saying the same thing. In fact, I think most golf instruction has the basics the same. Those who don't are trying a long cut back to the original. There are no short cuts. There never are. I may not know golf, but I'm sure of this one.

And thanks for reminding me...

Could you elaborate on the other pieces which address impact? Thanks. 

Bobby Clampett whole system boils down to "don't hit it fat"...

To be honest, his book Impact Zone helped a little, but was pretty limited in what it had to say.