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Driver Shaft Length Creep

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3 hours ago, OrangeHog said:

I read somewhere (maybe here...can't recall) that shortening the shaft also changes the lie angle of the club.  I'm struggling to wrap my mind around that, if it's accurate.

If it is indeed accurate how would you need to adjust the driver?  Open/close the face, etc?

Changing the length does affect the lie angle.  It's a 1:1 ratio...the club will play 1* more upright for each inch of added length and 1* flatter for each inch the club is shortened. The club won't measure any different, but it will play more upright or flat. 

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10 minutes ago, 1badbadger said:

Changing the length does affect the lie angle.  It's a 1:1 ratio...the club will play 1* more upright for each inch of added length and 1* flatter for each inch the club is shortened. The club won't measure any different, but it will play more upright or flat. 

That sounds backwards. If the shaft is shorter,wouldn't you need to stand closer and therefore more upright? You may be correct, it just sounds backwards to me.

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Longer length would need flattening equal ratio.

Edited by Hatchman

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34 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

That sounds backwards. If the shaft is shorter,wouldn't you need to stand closer and therefore more upright? You may be correct, it just sounds backwards to me.

This is exaggerated of course, but it shows how an extended club will play more upright (toe up) and a shorter club will play flat (toe down).

58c56c78b9dbf_Faldoshortclub.jpg.1f983ef6c95ffa97714a63bf4f950b6d.jpg

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Oh, okay. I had the wrong image of what is upright. I always thought it meant shaft was more vertical not the toe of the club.

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shorter is usually better to some extent. oems have increased driver shaft lengths to chase the almighty longest driver on the market. What they fail to mention is they don't care if amateurs that spend money supporting them get better. so they constantly increase shaft length  think bout it for a minute if the pro golfers that do nothing but golf can not play 46" drivers how the heck do they expect weekend hackers hit longer shaft drivers. I guess if a person is just interested in hitting a drive once maybe twice in a weekend solid then longer shafts are better.

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5 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

Changing the length does affect the lie angle.  It's a 1:1 ratio...the club will play 1* more upright for each inch of added length and 1* flatter for each inch the club is shortened. The club won't measure any different, but it will play more upright or flat. 

Ok, this makes a lot of sense given the differences I'm seeing in trajectory before and after the shaft length change.  Since I shortened it I've noticed a lot more fade bias than ever before.

So how do I adjust for this?  I'm assuming a driver cannot be bent so would I need to close the face using the adjustable hosel?

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5 hours ago, Hacker James said:

Oh, okay. I had the wrong image of what is upright. I always thought it meant shaft was more vertical not the toe of the club.

There are a lot of guys who think it's the opposite, so that's not unusual.  That's why I tend to use a lot of pictures in my posts because the visual helps and there is an "ah-ha" moment!

58c5ca3b466e2_lieangle.jpg.a8aa5b05117b8d27dca7090aa26a8e7f.jpg

One thing to keep in mind...the sole of the club doesn't have to be flat when you're addressing the ball.  What we want is for it to be flat at impact. It's very normal if the toe is up slightly at address.  The reason is because the weight of the head causes the shaft to "droop" (also called "toe drop" or "toe droop").  There are a lot of factors involved, so not everyone's toe will be slightly up at address.  Double-checking with the help of a lie board is quick and easy.

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1 hour ago, OrangeHog said:

Ok, this makes a lot of sense given the differences I'm seeing in trajectory before and after the shaft length change.  Since I shortened it I've noticed a lot more fade bias than ever before.

So how do I adjust for this?  I'm assuming a driver cannot be bent so would I need to close the face using the adjustable hosel?

If you haven't done anything to replace the swingweight that was lost when you shortened the shaft, that's where I would start. If your driver has a removable weight screw (or screws) you can add weight by using a heavier screw.  If not, lead tape works great. When the swingweight is too light, it's difficult to sense where the head is or what it is doing, so it could just be that you're leaving the face open and don't know it.

If you have already compensated for the swingweight, the next thing I would suggest is if your driver can be adjusted for lie angle, do that.  The next option is adjusting the face angle.  Make small adjustments, and only do one adjustments at a time. 

Hope this helps!

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2 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

There are a lot of guys who think it's the opposite, so that's not unusual.  That's why I tend to use a lot of pictures in my posts because the visual helps and there is an "ah-ha" moment!

58c5ca3b466e2_lieangle.jpg.a8aa5b05117b8d27dca7090aa26a8e7f.jpg

One thing to keep in mind...the sole of the club doesn't have to be flat when you're addressing the ball.  What we want is for it to be flat at impact. It's very normal if the toe is up slightly at address.  The reason is because the weight of the head causes the shaft to "droop" (also called "toe drop" or "toe droop").  There are a lot of factors involved, so not everyone's toe will be slightly up at address.  Double-checking with the help of a lie board is quick and easy.

Not so much different than in the "find the ball" drill, where 3 balls are laid out and you take your setup and try and hit each one in succession, or combination thereof from the same setup.

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3 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

If you haven't done anything to replace the swingweight that was lost when you shortened the shaft, that's where I would start. If your driver has a removable weight screw (or screws) you can add weight by using a heavier screw.  If not, lead tape works great. When the swingweight is too light, it's difficult to sense where the head is or what it is doing, so it could just be that you're leaving the face open and don't know it.

If you have already compensated for the swingweight, the next thing I would suggest is if your driver can be adjusted for lie angle, do that.  The next option is adjusting the face angle.  Make small adjustments, and only do one adjustments at a time. 

Hope this helps!

Newbie question, but how can I measure swing weight?  And how do you know what is optimal?  Is it generally a "feel" thing?

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IMO the modern driver is too long.  I use a G25 I love I choke up about two inches.  I added no lead tape.  For me it works well.  240-260 with good enough direction.

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40 minutes ago, OrangeHog said:

Newbie question, but how can I measure swing weight?  And how do you know what is optimal?  Is it generally a "feel" thing?

To measure swing weight, you'll need to use a swing weight scale which looks like this:

623805270_iyxzLn5a_GM-020320-Auditor_Classic_SW-1.jpg.63ac590c79bbdab5815c78e0de69548d.jpg

Most golf shops will have one and can check your swing weights quickly.

As far as the "optimal" swing weight...that is going to be different from player-to-player.  Your feel preference is definitely part of it, but also your tempo, how forceful your transition is from the top of the backswing to the start of the downswing, and your overall strength will factor in.

If you're swing weight fitting an existing club (for example, your current driver) it's a little harder to temporarily lighten the swing weight, but one way to experiment is to get a package or roll of lead tape (available at almost all golf stores) like this:

HDLT.jpg.4da3bcb0c8864a3397340c5f10cbe7a0.jpg

download.jpg.b5d8c61b7da3a9ef98d82b6fb0d48302.jpg

It's inexpensive, easy to use and won't hurt the finish of your clubs.  Worst case scenario is peel it off and throw it away and you're back to where you started.

Don't get the pre-cut type that look like this:

8pcs-lot-font-b-Golf-b-font-Soft-Weighted-font-b-Lead-b-font-font-b.jpg.70f21dc4ee593470543195a71bec23f7.jpg

Hit some shots, then add a piece of tape about 3" long to the back of the club head and hit some more shots. Pay attention to the feel of the head and your timing and tempo.  Add another strip of tape and repeat the process until you feel like it's taking too much effort to swing the club, but there should be a point where everything "clicks"...the club isn't too heavy or too light, your timing and tempo are in sync without having to think about it.

It's fun to experiment like this, and you can learn a lot about your clubs, what you like, what you don't like, and little things like this give you more experience and confidence.  Try it!

 

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1 hour ago, 1badbadger said:

To measure swing weight, you'll need to use a swing weight scale which looks like this:

623805270_iyxzLn5a_GM-020320-Auditor_Classic_SW-1.jpg.63ac590c79bbdab5815c78e0de69548d.jpg

Most golf shops will have one and can check your swing weights quickly.

As far as the "optimal" swing weight...that is going to be different from player-to-player.  Your feel preference is definitely part of it, but also your tempo, how forceful your transition is from the top of the backswing to the start of the downswing, and your overall strength will factor in.

If you're swing weight fitting an existing club (for example, your current driver) it's a little harder to temporarily lighten the swing weight, but one way to experiment is to get a package or roll of lead tape (available at almost all golf stores) like this:

HDLT.jpg.4da3bcb0c8864a3397340c5f10cbe7a0.jpg

download.jpg.b5d8c61b7da3a9ef98d82b6fb0d48302.jpg

It's inexpensive, easy to use and won't hurt the finish of your clubs.  Worst case scenario is peel it off and throw it away and you're back to where you started.

Don't get the pre-cut type that look like this:

8pcs-lot-font-b-Golf-b-font-Soft-Weighted-font-b-Lead-b-font-font-b.jpg.70f21dc4ee593470543195a71bec23f7.jpg

Hit some shots, then add a piece of tape about 3" long to the back of the club head and hit some more shots. Pay attention to the feel of the head and your timing and tempo.  Add another strip of tape and repeat the process until you feel like it's taking too much effort to swing the club, but there should be a point where everything "clicks"...the club isn't too heavy or too light, your timing and tempo are in sync without having to think about it.

It's fun to experiment like this, and you can learn a lot about your clubs, what you like, what you don't like, and little things like this give you more experience and confidence.  Try it!

 

Thanks brother!!  I'll grab some lead tape this week and give it a shot.

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2 hours ago, OrangeHog said:

Thanks brother!!  I'll grab some lead tape this week and give it a shot.

Any time man.  Let us know how it goes.

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8 hours ago, OrangeHog said:

Newbie question, but how can I measure swing weight?  And how do you know what is optimal?  Is it generally a "feel" thing?

If you want one to tinker with, I have this model.

https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-v-line-swingweight-scale/p/NESC/

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On 3/6/2017 at 8:19 AM, Bucki1968 said:

Okay after playing with both of my drivers this week-end, I came to the conclusion that the shorter shafted driver really didn't help my performance. As a matte of fact (for me) I hit the 45.5 inch driver further and actually straighter. The shortened driver just did not come off the club face the same. Maybe the new shaft put into that driver (the shorter one) just isn't very good. The club felt "clunky" to me.

How tall are you? I'm only 5'6" so I'm considering taking an inch off my driver shaft. 

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I am 5'9". It may be that the new shaft just doesn't match well with the club head but the ball just does not come off the face with the same velocity. I don't use that driver much so I just put a shorter shaft into it as an experiment to see if it would work. Maybe it's the guy swinging the club?

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