Rare Stats

[p1n9183]

To know my weeknesses i record my stats with a stroke gained approach. After 15 rounds i can see clear that i was bad with long irons and short irons. But what was rare is that my average spected score of my mid irons (7.8.9) where better than my short irons (P,W,G).

Avg Wedges: 2,92
Avg Short Irons: 3,25
Avg Mid Irons: 3,21
Avg Long Irons: 3,54

I agree the fact that closer is better but in my case beetween a 7 iron and a Gap wedges there practically no different, moreover it´s better to have a mid iron in hand than a short iron.

I know i have to work to improve my short irons but how could you explain that numbers?

Note: the average only take in consideration the iron shot, not the result of the chip/putt after that.  

[DaveP043]

One question, do you tend to aim more at the flag, take on more risk, with your short irons than you do with the longer irons?  If so, your misses with the shortest irons might put you in more difficult situations, leading to some higher scores.  

[Lihu]

I'm probably having different issues than you given your handicap, but have similar overall results.

It seems like, for most shots, I'm no more accurate from 100 yards than 150 yards. I get also sometimes get those short shanks and long thin fliers with both distances.

The other thing is from 50 to 100 yards my accuracy seem to be roughly the same as 100 yards and 150 yards. I started focusing on aiming my body better last Sunday when bumping shots from 50 yards and in, but noticed that at first my alignment was terrible. I hit over 100 shots with alignment sticks to make sure my toes and path were aligned using my U wedge (50 degrees). This really paid off on the course 2 days ago, as my scrambling was up to 44% that round. Too bad everything else was really bad.

So, I'm wondering if the 100 to 150 yard accuracy issues are more of alignment problems more than anything else?

Of course, my 175 to 200 are really crappy from bad flights and other terrible things, which makes sense for my handicap.

 

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

One question, do you tend to aim more at the flag, take on more risk, with your short irons than you do with the longer irons?  If so, your misses with the shortest irons might put you in more difficult situations, leading to some higher scores.  

Good question. I wonder what a scratch player does versus what I do?  I try to aim for the center, but often end up wherever.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Lihu
Grammar and not being specific enough

[p1n9183]

18 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

One question, do you tend to aim more at the flag, take on more risk, with your short irons than you do with the longer irons?  If so, your misses with the shortest irons might put you in more difficult situations, leading to some higher scores.  

Nop, even with my wedges i aim to the middle of the green. I start to aim at the flag 50 yards and in. I´m a really conservative player, defend par at all cost.

Something psicologycal.. i don´t know...

15 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The other thing is from 50 to 100 yards my accuracy seem to be roughly the same as 100 yards and 150 yards

Luckily i´m accurate inside 100 yards, but from 100 to 130 i´m not.  

[RandallT]

48 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Note: the average only take in consideration the iron shot, not the result of the chip/putt after that.  

So as I understand it, you are doing a SG computation for JUST that shot. You are not actually calculating out the average hole-out values from the point where you had these iron/wedge shots. Maybe a fine distinction, but wanted to be clear.

What jumps to mind for me is that perhaps on shorter holes, the design makes them more challenging near the greens.

For example, where there's a hole that is playing 430yds, and you have a 7-iron into the green, that green MIGHT be less likely to have craziness around the green. On a 330yd green that forces you to lay up to 120yds, perhaps those holes tend to have creeks/bunkers, such that when you calculate the SG for the resulting shot, it might offset the advantage of being closer?

That way, both things are true and not mutually exclusive- it's better to be closer AND your stats may not reflect that. 

Just a thought.

[Club Rat]

40 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

To know my weeknesses i record my stats

Stats can be skewed in many matters, a better comparison of apples to apples approach would be better.

To get a true comparison, a person would need to hit shots at the same target with each club.
An example would be hitting five shots with each club (mark the ball to identify the club used) at the specific distance used by each club.
This can be done some evening or time when let's say at a course the first hole is open and no one else is around.
Hitting your approach shots under the same conditions, to the same target would provide a more accurate analysis.

There are too many variables when using any given club, such as pin locations, wind directions, carry distances, lies, etcetera during normal play. 

 I've hit shots that hit next to a hole yet have the ball spin back off the front of a green and end up yards from the pin.
To record an instance of that manner would skew an average.

[p1n9183]

2 minutes ago, RandallT said:

What jumps to mind for me is that perhaps on shorter holes, the design makes them more challenging near the greens.

Yes, think about this too. Could be the rational a explanation.

[RandallT]

9 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Yes, think about this too. Could be the rational a explanation.

Now that you've pinpointed this anomaly in your stats, I'd love to hear from you later (like after a whole bunch of rounds) if you've noticed that this plays into it. I thought the strategy idea was very good too, but you say you play a similar strategy with either type of shot (wedge v iron).

The professional data charts don't show a similar pattern, so this is interesting.

I do a lot of analysis of people's rounds via those SG charts, and one thing that has always bugged me when comparing PGA to bogey golfers is this:

When a pro tees off from say, 320yds, that hole is going to be VERY difficult. Not a straight away tee shot, most likely, and probably some big risk/reward type of hole.  But when a muni course rated 67.3/112 (fairly easy) has a 320yds par 4, it could be a wide open fairway with a straightforward green.  So using the hole-out value for a pro is quite misleading, and the impact is that if a bogey golfer hits just a 200yd drive in the fairway, they might only lose 0.1 strokes or something. In reality, a pro would bomb the ball down near the green, and you'd lose more than that! 

Anyway, probably a different topic, but seems somewhat related. Sorry to thread-jack. It's just that the SG charts factor in so many things that it's so hard to make perfect conclusions from them.

[Lihu]

29 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Luckily i´m accurate inside 100 yards, but from 100 to 130 i´m not.  

That's really good. What tactic do you employ from 40 to 100 yards?

The question is based upon the fact that my partial wedge shots are really crappy. I never really know when I'm going to over or under hit.

Is your 130 issue based upon course conditions or possible flight problems with your PW?

Edited March 23, 2017 by Lihu
additional question

[RandallT]

Just now, Lihu said:

That's really good. What tactic do you employ from 40 to 100 yards?

The question is based upon the fact that my partial wedge shots are really crappy. I never really know when I'm going to over or under hit.

Hey, Look! A squirrel!

The OP is free to answer this, of course, (it's his thread) but I just got a chuckle out of (and wanted to tease you about) the sidebar discussion. We start with an interesting stats anomaly of mid-irons VS short-irons, and we end up chatting about a strategy on partial wedge shots.

Maybe a new topic on this, if it's a big issue?

[Lihu]

17 minutes ago, RandallT said:

Maybe a new topic on this, if it's a big issue?

Don't think it's a new topic? It's not really a big issue for me personally, just a fact of life playing golf.

He's talking about the stats and answered that from under 100 yards he's good. Just that 130 yards he is off. I just wondered if it could still be an alignment or flight related issue rather than just course conditions as you indicated?

If this is not part of the topic, I really don't know what is. I will say that at least your mod post is a tiny bit nicer than @boogielicious and what's his name?

Edited March 23, 2017 by Lihu
Nicer way of putting it

[RandallT]

I'm far from an OT police, so carry on. I think I can see the relevance, if you're getting at the technique for his short shots is good, so perhaps it's just a technique problem as he backs up just a little bit toward the short irons.

Avg Wedges: 2,92
Avg Short Irons: 3,25
Avg Mid Irons: 3,21
Avg Long Irons: 3,54

I was just trying to razz you a bit, because

1) I know you don't get ruffled by this stuff and I got a chuckle out of it. 

2) I was thinking the question was narrowly about the two things bolded above (which I understood to be full shots), and then it drifted toward what seemed to be a discussion of technique for partial shots. I was thinking in side a box of those bolded areas- so it just seemed funny, that's all.

 

[p1n9183]

4 minutes ago, RandallT said:

Anyway, probably a different topic, but seems somewhat related. Sorry to thread-jack. It's just that the SG charts factor in so many things that it's so hard to make perfect conclusions from them.

don´t worry, i like the SG and strategy talk aswell.

My stroke gained approach it´s based on stroke gained bases but adapted by me to give me the data i need.
Example: Im 120 yards from the green, ít´s a short iron for me. Let´s say i hit the green 10 feet from the hole. From that distance (10 feet) my average score it´s arround 1,75. So i gained to PAR (not the field) 0,25 strokes. + 1 of the iron shoot it´s 2,75. Let´s say, on a 2nd shot from a short iron i miss the green short in the fairway, a typicall 50/50 up and down chance. So average stroke form there it´s 2,5. So I missed 0,5 strokes to par. + 1 of the shoot 3,5.
2,75 + 3,5 = 6,25 / 2 = Avg 3,12 for the short iron.
Exactly the same procedure for mid, long and wedges. That is what i noted before, it only takes in consideration the iron shot, not the chip or putter after.

So i don´t really compare myself against pro from any distance or lie. I compare myself against par.

Afterwads it´s really easy to compare mysefl against pro or scratch.
My scoring average with short irons it´s 3,25. A tour pro maybe 2,88. So -0,37 stroke gained each time per round i hit a short iron. I hit in average 6 short irons per round, that´s 2 strokes lost against a pro with my short irons. An excel make all that numbers for me an give me a clean view of my weeknesses.

I attacked an image of the stat of 1 round. Shoot 7+ on a 7200 yards course. I guess it was 74 rating.

As you can see, to play on that course on average you need to hit 288 yards with your driver. I only hit 260 so i lost 2,2 strokes there to par.
In terms of accuracy it´s a must to keep the ball inside 15% of deviation for the 97% of the shots. I hit 2 shots out of that range, so i lost 2,3 strokes in accuracy item. (1 ball whent OB an the other have to chip out, wasn´t lucky with my big misses)
On irons i lost 0,5 strokes against a scracth player, 2,1 of lost strokes with short irons.
Hit a lot of greens so i only need to chip 5 times with a decent performance against a scratch player gainning 1 shot.
My putting that day was really bad, really fast greens and i loose 3 strokes to a scratch player.

The same sheet allow multiple rounds input and give me overall stats.  

[p1n9183]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

That's really good. What tactic do you employ from 40 to 100 yards?

First of all, like most golfers i´m not god with half shots. So i try to always keep my lay up shots over 70 yards for a full shot or less than 30 yards for a pitch shot. If in a rare case i left myself with a 30 to 70 shot number one priority it is to be on the green for the next shot. So i forget about the flag and aim for an area where i know i can easily make 2 putt´s for par. Let´s say the flag it´s in the middle back of the green i´ll aim at the flag but 5/10 yards shorter avoding to hit it thin or to strong and miss green long.  

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

First of all, like most golfers i´m not god with half shots. So i try to always keep my lay up shots over 70 yards for a full shot or less than 30 yards for a pitch shot. If in a rare case i left myself with a 30 to 70 shot number one priority it is to be on the green for the next shot. So i forget about the flag and aim for an area where i know i can easily make 2 putt´s for par. Let´s say the flag it´s in the middle back of the green i´ll aim at the flag but 5/10 yards shorter avoding to hit it thin or to strong and miss green long.  

Spend 15 minutes learning your yardages in the 30-70 yard range. You should find that there's often no reason to lay up to 80 when you can be hitting to 40.

The people who aren't good in those short range shots that aren't greenside often just need a little time. It's a comfort thing, not a technique thing usually, and even if it is technique it's relatively easy to sort out.

[RandallT]

Great stuff, @p1n9183. I haven't dug through it all, cuz I'm still working through a post on putting with the flagstick in: 

I'll just say now that it looks very thorough. (oh, and the commas, instead of decimal points, confuse me )

 

[MuniGrit]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

Spend 15 minutes learning your yardages in the 30-70 yard range. You should find that there's often no reason to lay up to 80 when you can be hitting to 40.

The people who aren't good in those short range shots that aren't greenside often just need a little time. It's a comfort thing, not a technique thing usually, and even if it is technique it's relatively easy to sort out.

I agree. I used to be terrified of inside full swing range. I forced myself to practice inside of that range and got over my fear. It just takes time, practice and confidence.

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

I agree. I used to be terrified of inside full swing range. I forced myself to practice inside of that range and got over my fear. It just takes time, practice and confidence.

Yeah, I'm still terrified. . .

 

1 hour ago, RandallT said:

I'm far from an OT police, so carry on. I think I can see the relevance, if you're getting at the technique for his short shots is good, so perhaps it's just a technique problem as he backs up just a little bit toward the short irons.

Avg Wedges: 2,92
Avg Short Irons: 3,25
Avg Mid Irons: 3,21
Avg Long Irons: 3,54

That's what I was wondering.

Those partial distances are so lacking any confidence that I just wondered if a scratch had a different tactic or not?

 

Quote

I was just trying to razz you a bit, because

1) I know you don't get ruffled by this stuff and I got a chuckle out of it. 

2) I was thinking the question was narrowly about the two things bolded above (which I understood to be full shots), and then it drifted toward what seemed to be a discussion of technique for partial shots. I was thinking in side a box of those bolded areas- so it just seemed funny, that's all.

No worries! Just wondered how I veered so far off topic? If so, My language skills need a severe overhaul, not that they don't already.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Lihu
topic not target