Ernest Jones video

[iacas]

I'm procrastinating, so the timing's good…

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

I have to admit,  imo me trying to use Nicklaus as someone who utilized Jones method in his prime was a mistake.

You've made a lot. Perhaps the biggest is that, in trying to promote Ernest Jones, you've now "educated" a bunch of people, and in turn, turned them OFF to Ernest Jones.

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

No idea why that is.

Feel ain't real.

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

I do think it is worth noting that Jack did look up to Bobby Jones as the man to beat in terms of records.  Bobby endorsed Ernest Jones's teachings back in the day.

I finally have a chance to use this GIF I've been saving!

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

I only remember being admonished when I started out as a young kid.  All I remember my grandfather telling me was no no!  That's a baseball swing!  And keep your head down!  And no no hit DOWN on the ball to make it go up!  No wonder golf seemed so difficult for me.

That's not an example of good, modern, non-Jones-style instruction.

[billchao]

53 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Afterwards,  they told me they wanted to go again because it was fun.

I only remember being admonished when I started out as a young kid.  All I remember my grandfather telling me was no no!  That's a baseball swing!  And keep your head down!  And no no hit DOWN on the ball to make it go up!  No wonder golf seemed so difficult for me.

Please don't take this the wrong way,  but what I got out of that story is that you're a better teacher than your grandfater and it's not because of the Ernest Jones method.

I can tell you exactly what would happen if I took my family out to the range and spent the entire time chiding them over what they were doing wrong. Glad you had a good time with yours.

[Jack Watson]

I guess the bottom line for me on this topic is that I am not saying Jones idea is the answer or secret or magic or that it's all one needs.  Iacas is right it is really only ONE basic idea.

Modern science has proved that both internal and external focus are advantageous to learning depending on the situation.  Probably the ultimate form of instruction is a synthesis as Iacas alluded to several times in the thread.  

Imo from looking around online and reading what golf literature I have read the industry as a whole seems to be heavily slanted towards internal focus.  Just read Five Lessons or Leadbetter or just notice when you look around.  I wouldn't include 5sk in the junk that I see readily available promising quick results with magic tricks.  You can't really argue against 5sk.  One description I read from Leadbetter on hip motion in one of his books was truly ridiculous.  I would tell him to his face that what he wrote is one of the worst things I have ever seen.

I think Jones's writings are a good contrast to getting caught up in overthinking things.  I read some advice Iacas wrote to a very good player and it was almost verbatim to what Jones said in one case about making small good swings and building back up from there if things get way off track.

I am only one golfer,  and it's like anything,  what I have seen work is ultimately irrelevant to what will work for someone or even a majority of golfers.  I have no shame in admitting that.

One idea can only be repeated or explained so many times.  So I am not going to continue unless addressed directly as it seems my ability to try to explain what I have seen success with has run its course.  It's only one aspect.

I will say Jones one idea can't harm a golfer.  His writings are timeless and if you find yourself getting caught up in overthinking as many of us do (we are golfers after all) his words are refreshingly simple and positive.  

 

[Phil McGleno]

@iacas did not ALLUDE to that thing @Jack Watson-He came out and said it many many times.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Imo from looking around online and reading what golf literature I have read the industry as a whole seems to be heavily slanted towards internal focus.

Kinda how it has to be. You can't just say "swing the clubhead" and have people feel they've gotten a good tip. All we can talk about is how the right elbow "should" work in public places to the general public. Even discussions here are often like that, because we're actually discussing generalized mechanics, NOT what any one student might need to do at that moment to feel a better golf swing, or achieve it, or do a drill, or picture something, or whatever.

2 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

@iacas did not ALLUDE to that thing @Jack Watson-He came out and said it many many times.

I feel that I did more than allude to it as well, yeah.