Clubface Position at Address after Bumping Hips Forward

[Stratf01]

First post on here so please be kind. (:0)

So let's assume you've set up correctly to ball with club face centred. 

When you bump your hips towards the target during the swing your centre of arc path is now around 2 or 3 inches closer to the target. At this point your club head is same distance away from you as it was at initial set up. However your ball was 2 or 3 inches behind and club face has hit the ball closer to the the heel of club. 

I know we are not talking a huge inaccuracy but it's making me wonder if I should be setting up the club face differently at address. 

I know I'm not explaining this very well but hope someone understands what I'm on about. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Stratf01 said:

So let's assume you've set up correctly to ball with club face centred.

Centered how? In your stance? That's not necessarily "correct."

1 hour ago, Stratf01 said:

When you bump your hips towards the target during the swing your centre of arc path is now around 2 or 3 inches closer to the target.

Why? The center of your swing is not located near your hips. There's really no "center of your swing" but I would say the URC - the Upper Rotational Center located between the shoulders - is closer to the "center" of your swing than your hips. And it doesn't have to move if your hips move.

1 hour ago, Stratf01 said:

However your ball was 2 or 3 inches behind and club face has hit the ball closer to the the heel of club.

When I bump my hips forward the club doesn't move in relation to the ball… so huh?

1 hour ago, Stratf01 said:

I know we are not talking a huge inaccuracy but it's making me wonder if I should be setting up the club face differently at address.

How you set up the clubface at address has only a bit to do with how you return it at impact. I know a guy who sets up the clubface 90° closed to the target and returns it slightly rightward of the target line.

[dennyjones]

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[Stratf01]

Apologies as I am clearly not explaining myself well at all. 

Here's a quick sketch that might show what I mean better below. 

The red is the club head path at address without any change in body position on the downswing. 

The blue is the path with hip bump towards target. 

The green is the club lol 

I'm thinking the club face is no longer striking the ball dead centre on the downswing. And therefore wonder if at set up the club fave alignment should be adjusted to compensate for this. 

Hope this clears things up slightly better 

[iacas]

You haven't answered my first question - why does the swing center move forward when the hips move forward?

[Pepsivanilla93]

5 hours ago, Stratf01 said:

Apologies as I am clearly not explaining myself well at all. 

Here's a quick sketch that might show what I mean better below. 

The red is the club head path at address without any change in body position on the downswing. 

The blue is the path with hip bump towards target. 

The green is the club lol 

I'm thinking the club face is no longer striking the ball dead centre on the downswing. And therefore wonder if at set up the club fave alignment should be adjusted to compensate for this. 

Hope this clears things up slightly better 

I think what you're asking is since you align the club face behind the ball square to the target line at address, you're worried that when your swing bottoms out in front of the ball your club face will be open to the target line at impact, right? Since you imagine a square club face to be where the low point of your swing is. I can tell you from my experience that my grip was the single greatest factor in getting the club face back to the ball near square and I line up with the club face aimed at my target.

I think it's a very minor thing to worry about if it has any impact at all. Maybe one of these guys can be more specific assuming this is what you meant.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/28/2017 at 6:07 PM, iacas said:

 

How you set up the clubface at address has only a bit to do with how you return it at impact. I know a guy who sets up the clubface 90° closed to the target and returns it slightly rightward of the target line.

Hey, I know that guy! He was in our foursome at Eagle Creek last year! My partner and I couldn't believe what we were seeing, but he hit a very nice ball and scored quite well!

For a time back in the day, I did almost the exact opposite.  I would set the clubhead behind the ball, and then turn my wrists into a "cocked" position with the clubhead a good foot to foot and a half behind and inside the ball, with the clubface almost parallel to the target line. Then I'd just take it back, and then down, and close the clubface hard!

I was just flat killing the ball! Hitting it a mile and right where I wanted it. After a while it didn't work so well any more, so I discarded it.

There's more than one way to skin a cat!

[Ernest Jones]

On 2017-06-28 at 6:07 PM, iacas said:

I know a guy who sets up the clubface 90° closed to the target and returns it slightly rightward of the target line.

What?  Really?

[Stratf01]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

You haven't answered my first question - why does the swing center move forward when the hips move forward?

Now you got me thinking! I guess I always assumed that was the case and that was how you swung down on the ball but I suppose if your head stays in same position your centre if plane should stay in same place. So you saying then that whether you have a forward bump with hips or not your divot if there is one will be at same place?

[Stratf01]

22 hours ago, Pepsivanilla93 said:

I think what you're asking is since you align the club face behind the ball square to the target line at address, you're worried that when your swing bottoms out in front of the ball your club face will be open to the target line at impact, right? Since you imagine a square club face to be where the low point of your swing is. I can tell you from my experience that my grip was the single greatest factor in getting the club face back to the ball near square and I line up with the club face aimed at my target.

I think it's a very minor thing to worry about if it has any impact at all. Maybe one of these guys can be more specific assuming this is what you meant.

That's exactly what I'm asking about. (:0)

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

What?  Really?

You know who I'm talking about… I just didn't want to out him in case he didn't want more people talking about it. Not like it's a bad thing, though.

16 minutes ago, Stratf01 said:

That's exactly what I'm asking about. (:0)

Right, but…

31 minutes ago, Stratf01 said:

Now you got me thinking! I guess I always assumed that was the case and that was how you swung down on the ball but I suppose if your head stays in same position your centre if plane should stay in same place. So you saying then that whether you have a forward bump with hips or not your divot if there is one will be at same place?

Right. If your head or your URC doesn't move, the "center of your swing" doesn't move too much.

If you don't slide your hips forward during the downswing, your divot is often deeper. The hips sliding forward is a shallowing move. It simply lets the low point be a bit shallower. People who don't slide the hips forward then often compensate for their deeper low point by bending their arms and throwing the clubhead a little bit. But if the low point is under the left shoulder, that doesn't move that much whether your hips slide forward or not.

[Stratf01]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

You know who I'm talking about… I just didn't want to out him in case he didn't want more people talking about it. Not like it's a bad thing, though.

Right, but…

Right. If your head or your URC doesn't move, the "center of your swing" doesn't move too much.

If you don't slide your hips forward during the downswing, your divot is often deeper. The hips sliding forward is a shallowing move. It simply lets the low point be a bit shallower. People who don't slide the hips forward then often compensate for their deeper low point by bending their arms and throwing the clubhead a little bit. But if the low point is under the left shoulder, that doesn't move that much whether your hips slide forward or not.

Very very interesting indeed. Thanks 

[deekay]

When I simulate an impact position (hands ahead of the ball, hips shifted slightly towards the target) with the club face square to the target line, the club face appears closed if I then return to a more centred setup position (without changing my grip).

Conversely, if the face is square at setup, it then appears open in the impact position.

With some of the replies here in mind, does this mean that I am shifting too much towards the target at impact? Or perhaps something wrong with my grip?

 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, deekay said:

When I simulate an impact position (hands ahead of the ball, hips shifted slightly towards the target) with the club face square to the target line, the club face appears closed if I then return to a more centred setup position (without changing my grip).

Conversely, if the face is square at setup, it then appears open in the impact position.

With some of the replies here in mind, does this mean that I am shifting too much towards the target at impact? Or perhaps something wrong with my grip?

It could just mean you're pushing your hands forward "the wrong way."

Imagine a little axle along the leading edge of the club, and move the handle forward that way. You're probably going forward and out, instead of just forward.

[Alx]

10 hours ago, deekay said:

When I simulate an impact position (hands ahead of the ball, hips shifted slightly towards the target) with the club face square to the target line, the club face appears closed if I then return to a more centred setup position (without changing my grip).

Conversely, if the face is square at setup, it then appears open in the impact position.

With some of the replies here in mind, does this mean that I am shifting too much towards the target at impact? Or perhaps something wrong with my grip?

 

Probably the reason why most people slice every club. Tbh I dont understand why people arent taught to always set up with forward press cause thats the position your going to be at impact. It makes proper alignment so much easier.

If you just press forward without rotating the wrists the face will open.

What youre describing is normal imo

 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Alx said:

Probably the reason why most people slice every club. Tbh I dont understand why people arent taught to always set up with forward press cause thats the position your going to be at impact. It makes proper alignment so much easier.

Kinda. Lot of differences between forward pressed setup and impact.

[Alx]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

Kinda. Lot of differences between forward pressed setup and impact.

Some differences but its still much closer than a centered setup and does simplify things imo.

I always felt with a centered setup I was going from 1 random position at setup to the next at impact. It feels needlessly complicated. Feels are individual ofc but mechanically it would be simpler to start from a position and try to end up in the same or practically the same. You have a reference point of sorts that youre trying to get back to.

Its pretty similar Id say.

[colin007]

On 6/30/2017 at 2:11 PM, iacas said:

. The hips sliding forward is a shallowing move. It simply lets the low point be a bit shallower.

But if the low point is under the left shoulder, that doesn't move that much whether your hips slide forward or not.

Huh....learn something new all the time here...

I was working under the impression that sliding the hips forward moves the low point forward as well, not just that it shallows the bottom (which isn't just "just", its massive).

Thanks!