Is it too much height in my shot a good thing?

[irockvdubs]

Hello everyone, 

I'm new to this site so I'm gonna begin with my stats.

I started playing golf 4 years ago. It started off as a stress relief exercise when I was studying for my board exams. At that the time, all I wanted to do was hit the ball as far as I can. Over time, I really got into golf and made it a mission to lower my score with no target in mind. My first round of 18 holes ended with a 110. This year, my lowest round was 85 (no mulligans, counted drop shot and follwed proper rules) in these four years, I've worked really hard. I would wake up at 6am so I can get a range session in before I start studying or do whatever I have to do that day. Went to range 4-5 times a week and focused on hitting targets and developing proper tempo, swing plane, lower body rotation and ball impact (this helped me A LOT with getting range and back spin)  

As I'm a med student, I can't really afford to play golf AND get coaching. So I bought Zepp golf sensor. It helped me up to certain limits. My score has been stuck between 85-87. I know I can do better because, on my back 9, I usually shoot about +3 or +4 Over par. I know I can bring my score down to single digits. Any tips on how I can achieve that? 

Recently, at one of my range sessions, some guy came up to me and told me that I shouldn't be hitting my 6 iron that high. It's not that I'm trying to hit high shots, those are just my normal shots lol. now I've been learning to control the height. 

I never would've thought that height was the problem since I hit my shots pretty far. 

these are my max distance shots that I can hit with accuracy and incredible height (I say this so readers know it's not a fat shot or a shank):

Pw - 130-150

9i - 160-170

8i - 180

7i - 190-200

6i - 210- 225

5i - 235-240

4hyb - 240-255

3i - 250 (idk why I can't hit this further)

3wood- 275

Driver 290-305

I tend to 3 putt sometimes. 

I've worked really hard to get this far and now I don't wanna stop till I consistently shoot par or under... I understand how difficult that goal is but in the next 2 years I wanna consistently start shooting even par! 

So, can someone give me tips on what I can do to lower my score and with the distance I have, is too much height a bad thing? I kind of like having high apex on my shots. My balls from 100-200 yards away, almost never roll off the green. But when it's windy, my accuracy is affected. Any help is appreciated.

Thank you 

Edited June 29, 2017 by irockvdubs

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, irockvdubs said:

Recently, at one of my range sessions, some guy came up to me and told me that I shouldn't be hitting my 6 iron that high. It's not that I'm trying to hit high shots, those are just my normal shots lol. now I've been learning to control the height. 

6i - 210- 225

Unfortunately, I don't know how high you were hitting it.

Many people are completely unaware how high a ball hit by a good player goes. It's quite high - 90 to 100 feet. Maybe you flip, and he's correct. Maybe he hits the ball way too low.

Unfortunately, there's not much more we can say to this, because none of us - including you - have an idea how high you actually hit the ball.

[irockvdubs]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Unfortunately, I don't know how high you were hitting it.

Many people are completely unaware how high a ball hit by a good player goes. It's quite high - 90 to 100 feet. Maybe you flip, and he's correct. Maybe he hits the ball way too low.

Unfortunately, there's not much more we can say to this, because none of us - including you - have an idea how high you actually hit the ball.

Yes. Sprry, I forgot to mention that. I go to PGA superstore simulators from time to time. I remember my 7i shot had 36m apex and it went 198yards, 10 yards off line.

Next time I go there, I'll get all the stats

[Golfingdad]

22 minutes ago, irockvdubs said:

As I'm a med student, I can't really afford to play golf AND get coaching. So I bought Zepp golf sensor.

Welcome to the site.  The problem with a sensor is that while it might show you what your ball is doing that it shouldn't be, it can't take the next step and tell you how to correct that.  You can waste a lot of time and money at the driving range trying to fix a flaw without direction.

I think you'd find value in even just one lesson (I recommend http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/ as it's what I use, has great teachers, and is economical) but if that isn't an option, try this:

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

 

[irockvdubs]

4 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Welcome to the site.  The problem with a sensor is that while it might show you what your ball is doing that it shouldn't be, it can't take the next step and tell you how to correct that.  You can waste a lot of time and money at the driving range trying to fix a flaw without direction.

I think you'd find value in even just one lesson (I recommend http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/ as it's what I use, has great teachers, and is economical) but if that isn't an option, try this:

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

 

Thank you for the reply. You're absolutely correct. While i got my temp and swing plane right, I was hitting the ground before hitting the ball. So then I had to work on taking proper divots. To fix that issue, I put a penny and inch or so behind the ball and then tried to hit the ball. That really helped me hit the ball first and then the ground. That also allowed me to learn back spin! 

Thank you for the links, I'm looking thru them now

[Golfingdad]

2 minutes ago, irockvdubs said:

...To fix that issue, ...

The main thing I learned when I started taking lessons is that what I think might be my issue ... isn't always my issue.  Proper instruction might jump start your improvement because instead of just fixing the symptom, they are better at finding the root of the problem.

[klineka]

Based on the numbers you stated for each club, why would you want to change anything about the height of your ball flight? Simply because someone at your driving range said your 6 iron is too high? Theres not too many people on this forum that hit a 6 iron 225.

This is from 2009

According the Leaderboard website, PGA Tour players' average 4-iron shots travel 210 to 220 yards (including the roll). They can hit 5-iron shots 195 to 205 yards; 6-iron shots 180 to 190 yards; 7-iron shots 165 to 180 yards; 8-iron shots 150 to 170 yards; and 9-iron shots 140 to 155 yards. The average distance for a pitching wedge is 130 to 135 yards; for a sand wedge 115 to 120 yards; and for lob wedges 75 to 95 yards.

http://golftips.golfweek.com/average-yards-per-club-pro-golfer-20585.html

 

Even if you added up to 20 yds to those numbers since they were from 2009, that would put your distances right up there with PGA tour average distances. You said that from 100-200 yds out the ball almost never rolls off the green, why change anything about the height? You can already drive 300 (more than adequate for an amateur) and based on your distances, most par 5s you play should be driver/6 or 7 iron with your 2nd shot. 

You said that you tend to 3 putt sometimes, pretty much everyone 3 putts sometimes. Can you quantify how frequent "sometimes" is? Once per round, 2 or 3 times per 9 holes, etc. 

Also you mentioned that you lose accuracy when playing in windy conditions, I would work on learning how to hit the same distance with multiple different clubs. Example, just the other night at the range, I was working on that as well, and hit 3 different clubs right at the 150 yd sign. Knockdown iron shots are especially useful in windy conditions. I typically choke down on the club, and have an abbreviated backswing and a shorter follow through, with the ball slightly back in my stance. Try reading the article below for additional tips on how to keep the trajectory lower in windy conditions.

 

 

[jamo]

The downside of hitting the ball "too high" is if it starts costing you distance. Your yardages are so huge I'd be surprised if you were losing much distance.

[Alx]

4 minutes ago, jamo said:

The downside of hitting the ball "too high" is if it starts costing you distance. Your yardages are so huge I'd be surprised if you were losing much distance.

The gapping is a bit wacky.

I would guess hes delofting the 5-6 irons quite a bit.

[Strandly]

I'm pretty skeptical of your distances.  I mean... I remember a 210 yard hole Spieth hit a 5 iron on and it came up just short and you hit a shorter club 210-225?  OoooooooooK.    Maybe you're just a beast I guess?

The thing that jumped out at me was the store simulator.  I don't trust those things at all.  When I got my clubs fitted I knew nothing about the game and the machine was telling me I was driving the ball 275 yards.  There was simply no way.

Anyway, I think hitting the ball high is almost never a problem.  If it was costing you yards, which according to these herculean stats probably isn't the case, then I would maybe change some things but to me it looks like you just need to learn to aim better.

[Alx]

4 minutes ago, Strandly said:

I'm pretty skeptical of your distances.  I mean... I remember a 210 yard hole Spieth hit a 5 iron on and it came up just short and you hit a shorter club 210-225?  OoooooooooK.    Maybe you're just a beast I guess?

The thing that jumped out at me was the store simulator.  I don't trust those things at all.  When I got my clubs fitted I knew nothing about the game and the machine was telling me I was driving the ball 275 yards.  There was simply no way.

Anyway, I think hitting the ball high is almost never a problem.  If it was costing you yards, which according to these herculean stats probably isn't the case, then I would maybe change some things but to me it looks like you just need to learn to aim better.

Ive watched some reviews on yt with guys whos swings dont really look that fast and the radar is showing 200 yard seven irons etc.
I realize optimal conditions will give you a few yards but honestly it feels like these numbers are sometimes a good 20 30 yards off.

Ive been told similar things irl by people whove been in demos and fittings.

[irockvdubs]

11 minutes ago, Strandly said:

I'm pretty skeptical of your distances.  I mean... I remember a 210 yard hole Spieth hit a 5 iron on and it came up just short and you hit a shorter club 210-225?  OoooooooooK.    Maybe you're just a beast I guess?

The thing that jumped out at me was the store simulator.  I don't trust those things at all.  When I got my clubs fitted I knew nothing about the game and the machine was telling me I was driving the ball 275 yards.  There was simply no way.

Anyway, I think hitting the ball high is almost never a problem.  If it was costing you yards, which according to these herculean stats probably isn't the case, then I would maybe change some things but to me it looks like you just need to learn to aim better.

I was wondering when someone like you was gonna reply on this thread. Lol I have absolutely no need to brag to random strangers about my yardage. You don't know me, I don't know you... what would be my motivation to lie here? And lying about my yardage wouldn't help me. I'm being completely honest about my distances here. Just because you can't hit the ball far, it dsnt mean only pros can. You have no idea about how much time and effort I put into golf. When I'm not at the hospital, I'm at the range or on the course. This has been my schedule for past 3 years. 

But anyways, I agree with you about the simulators. It said I drove the ball 376yards one tome.. And i know that was totally false. But I have driven 300 yards on an actual golf course.. that's how I know my true yardage. 

Fyi.. just because Speith hit the ball short with his 5 iron, it dsnt mean he can't hit the ball farther.... what kinda shot was he playing? How about wind factor? Pin location? 

Thanks for the input though 

Much appreciated 

On 6/30/2017 at 10:10 AM, Alx said:

The gapping is a bit wacky.

I would guess hes delofting the 5-6 irons quite a bit.

Yes I do deloft my clubs a lot but that still gives me a lot of height. For 5 or 6 iron, I place the ball pretty far back in my stance. I wish I had an accurate number to give here. But my apex is very high. It's higher than most of the people I've played with. 

About the yardage, I don't pay a lot of attention to how far I can hit with each club. Honestly, I go with feel. I've hit my 5 iron 250yards before... Idk how I did it or how it rolled that far, but I've done it. It dsnt happen too often but it happens. There were times I used an 8 iron to hit 150 yards and sometimes I use it to hit 180. 

[irockvdubs]

On 6/30/2017 at 8:49 AM, klineka said:

Based on the numbers you stated for each club, why would you want to change anything about the height of your ball flight? Simply because someone at your driving range said your 6 iron is too high? Theres not too many people on this forum that hit a 6 iron 225.

This is from 2009

According the Leaderboard website, PGA Tour players' average 4-iron shots travel 210 to 220 yards (including the roll). They can hit 5-iron shots 195 to 205 yards; 6-iron shots 180 to 190 yards; 7-iron shots 165 to 180 yards; 8-iron shots 150 to 170 yards; and 9-iron shots 140 to 155 yards. The average distance for a pitching wedge is 130 to 135 yards; for a sand wedge 115 to 120 yards; and for lob wedges 75 to 95 yards.

http://golftips.golfweek.com/average-yards-per-club-pro-golfer-20585.html

 

Even if you added up to 20 yds to those numbers since they were from 2009, that would put your distances right up there with PGA tour average distances. You said that from 100-200 yds out the ball almost never rolls off the green, why change anything about the height? You can already drive 300 (more than adequate for an amateur) and based on your distances, most par 5s you play should be driver/6 or 7 iron with your 2nd shot. 

You said that you tend to 3 putt sometimes, pretty much everyone 3 putts sometimes. Can you quantify how frequent "sometimes" is? Once per round, 2 or 3 times per 9 holes, etc. 

Also you mentioned that you lose accuracy when playing in windy conditions, I would work on learning how to hit the same distance with multiple different clubs. Example, just the other night at the range, I was working on that as well, and hit 3 different clubs right at the 150 yd sign. Knockdown iron shots are especially useful in windy conditions. I typically choke down on the club, and have an abbreviated backswing and a shorter follow through, with the ball slightly back in my stance. Try reading the article below for additional tips on how to keep the trajectory lower in windy conditions.

 

 

Thank you.. I actually practiced knockdown shots this morning at the range. Its a though shot to play but I'll get the hang of it with 1 or 2 months of practice. 

Anywhere I ask questions about how to improve my game, I've been told to get lessons. I guess it's true.

I found some Groupon deal for golf lessons, I might actually end up doing that. The only way I'll find out my faults is by having a knowledgeable eye analyze my swing.

Thank you for the replies! 

 

[Strandly]

I'm not saying you're bragging, or lying, or anything like that.  I simply think there are very few good ways of measuring yardages out there.  I think a lot of people resort to eyeballing it or referring to simulators or don't fully account for weather or terrain or some other thing and all of that stuff adds up.

Like I said though if you hit it that far then I would simply work on aiming.

[Alx]

10 minutes ago, irockvdubs said:

But my apex is very high. It's higher than most of the people I've played with. 

Avg male ss is around 85mph so not that surprising.

 

11 minutes ago, irockvdubs said:

About the yardage, I don't pay a lot of attention to how far I can hit with each club. Honestly, I go with feel. I've hit my 5 iron 250yards before... Idk how I did it or how it rolled that far, but I've done it. It dsnt happen too often but it happens. There were times I used an 8 iron to hit 150 yards and sometimes I use it to hit 180. 

To play good golf you absolutely have to know your distances. Ive hit my 3 iron 270 and 8 210 but those are not average yardages I expect to hit.

Generally when people say they dont know their exact yardages and they give numbers theres a good bit of extra in there. Thats just usually how it goes.

 

 

Now as for the the bold part. If it doesnt happen too often it definitely isnt your yardage for that club.

You sometimes get flyers, gusts or just a crazy bounce that gives you that extra distance.

Do some gap testing on the course next time you play. People are just trying to help, not call you out .

[irockvdubs]

15 minutes ago, Alx said:

Avg male ss is around 85mph so not that surprising.

 

To play good golf you absolutely have to know your distances. Ive hit my 3 iron 270 and 8 210 but those are not average yardages I expect to hit.

Generally when people say they dont know their exact yardages and they give numbers theres a good bit of extra in there. Thats just usually how it goes.

 

 

Now as for the the bold part. If it doesnt happen too often it definitely isnt your yardage for that club.

You sometimes get flyers, gusts or just a crazy bounce that gives you that extra distance.

Do some gap testing on the course next time you play. People are just trying to help, not call you out .

I'm not saying I hit 5i 250yards all the time. I trust my 5i when I'm looking at 230-240 yards. That's my go to club for that distance. I know you're just trying to help me out lol. I honestly don't get offended when people say anything negative about my golf game. Or even if they don't believe the yardage I'm giving. 

I've had people who were skeptical about th3 scores i was posting up. Not a big deal at all. I play golf for myself and I actually like seeing people'sfaces and their reaction when they see me play. because they don't believe I went from shooting 100+ to shooting in 80s within 4 years. That's probably what motivates me lol 

 

Since you said I should do proper gap testing, I'm gonna go to the range with my range finder and get exact yardage... again (that's how I initially figured out my distance)

This time I'll go the the driving that's an hour away from me. That's the only public grass range in my state. That'll be the most accurate gap testing. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by irockvdubs

[dennyjones]

Anyway....Welcome to TST.   @Golfingdad posted a link to "my swing" section.   I believe you'll find more answers from a personal swing video than the banter in the forum.    The members that have replied are trying to get a handle on your swing with the information given.   The video will give more detail.    

We're glad you've found us.  

[Shorty]

6 hours ago, irockvdubs said:

I was wondering when someone like you was gonna reply on this thread. Lol I have absolutely no need to brag to random strangers about my yardage. You don't know me, I don't know you... what would be my motivation to lie here? And lying about my yardage wouldn't help me. I'm being completely honest about my distances here.

Your lowest score is 85. You hit your irons pro distances "with accuracy and incredible height" (your words). You "tend to three putt sometimes" And you wonder why a member is sceptical?

Why do you even suspect that your "incredible" height is an issue? You don't even mention how high you hit it relative to others.

I'll tell you how to reduce your scores: Stop taking 4 shots to get up and down from the fringe, because your stated accuracy, distance, putting and scores don't add up.

If your claims were accurate you would say that you are on or around the green in regulation all the time - how can you not be with accuarcy AND distance? - but still bogey 80% of the holes. It's pretty obvious why someone would question your claims.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Shorty