What can I expect from irons 22 years newer?

[Grizvok]

So I'm a pretty new golfer and have been using a very old set of irons from 1988 which are Titleist's DTR (distance through research) irons. Tomorrow I have a set of the AP2 710's from 2010 I believe coming in from globalgolf and I've been wondering what to expect.

Given my golf playing experience I probably should've gone with something like the AP1's but the AP2's look very appealing to me so I went with them. Even though the AP2's are considered more of a player's club do you think they are still more forgiving than something like the DTR irons?

[Piz]

In my experience; it is the golfer, not the clubs, that are the "most forgiving" at the start of a relationship.  We all want to be proved correct in our decision to bag a new club or clubs.  To that end; we are willing to give the new club(s) a bit more leeway than we grant the old.  I'm guessing that you and your new clubs will get along fine...once you get to know one another.

[Buckeyebowman]

There's no way to know without further info. Have you researched whether these clubs are the correct length and lie for you? If they are, you could be astounded! If they are not, you might be disappointed.

Let us know how it goes. Club technology had come a long way!

[Grizvok]

2 hours ago, Piz said:

In my experience; it is the golfer, not the clubs, that are the "most forgiving" at the start of a relationship.  We all want to be proved correct in our decision to bag a new club or clubs.  To that end; we are willing to give the new club(s) a bit more leeway than we grant the old.  I'm guessing that you and your new clubs will get along fine...once you get to know one another.

Well said. Hopefully I can be as impartial as possible when judging how I'm striking the ball with these new irons. I'm actually a former collegiate tennis player so when trying out a new racquet there is often a "honeymoon" period where you are hitting incredibly well with a new racquet that ends after a certain period of time. It takes repeated use and practice with the new racquet to see if it suits your game and has the correct properties to improve what you are doing on the court. I'm quickly wondering whether golf and golf clubs are similar to that?

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

There's no way to know without further info. Have you researched whether these clubs are the correct length and lie for you? If they are, you could be astounded! If they are not, you might be disappointed.

Let us know how it goes. Club technology had come a long way!

I just did some research and it seems the lengths are quite close with the newer irons being slightly longer (which is a good thing as I'm 6'2 and I believe the DTR's are a hair short for me). The lofts are different by a degree or two with the newer clubs being less lofted so I'll definitely have to get some new info on my distances. The lies are slightly different so I'll have to see just how that affects my game. One thing I was very curious about was that no offset is labeled on the Titleist website about the DTR's nor do they have a labeled bounce. I'm not sure if it is because they are so old that they don't have the data on the site or if they actually just don't have these properties (which seems unlikely to me). I do plan on taking these clubs for a fitting pretty soon which is something I'm pretty pumped for.

[Typhoon92]

I can talk on this one pretty well...

Last year I got fitted and picked up a set of Ping ie-1 irons and Callaway pm grind wedges.  All have the Nippon Modus 105 shaft in them.  Previous to that I was playing Ping Eye 2 copper irons and wedges with Microtaper shafts.

Big takeaway was better dispersion.  Gone was the big hook, replaced by shots that moved very little.  

Next was ballflight and spin.  The new irons were drop and stop.  Just the right amount of spin to prevent ballooning, loss of distance and this probably helped out with the dispersion I mentioned before.

Last is distance ..the better spin numbers game me more distance along with the ball still just checking up.  Eye2 wedges I could back up 15 feet...ball would go nowhere in the air and then be uncontrollable on the green.

 

I'm a believer in you have to keep your club and ball era's together.  New clubs are tested using current model golf balls.  Therefore, my Eye 2 irons didn't perform as well with a pro v1.  I used to hit them further back when it was balata or a Topflite ball.

For a test, I took some titleist professionals, balata and pro v1 out and hit them with the Eye2 irons.  I hit the balata and professional lower and it sort of just skipped in and grabbed on the green.  The pro v1 was much higher, shorter and sucked back 10 feet.  I was comparing balls using a 9 iron.

Sort of like putting model T wheels and tires on a zl1 corvette.

[Buckeyebowman]

22 hours ago, Grizvok said:

Well said. Hopefully I can be as impartial as possible when judging how I'm striking the ball with these new irons. I'm actually a former collegiate tennis player so when trying out a new racquet there is often a "honeymoon" period where you are hitting incredibly well with a new racquet that ends after a certain period of time. It takes repeated use and practice with the new racquet to see if it suits your game and has the correct properties to improve what you are doing on the court. I'm quickly wondering whether golf and golf clubs are similar to that?

I just did some research and it seems the lengths are quite close with the newer irons being slightly longer (which is a good thing as I'm 6'2 and I believe the DTR's are a hair short for me). The lofts are different by a degree or two with the newer clubs being less lofted so I'll definitely have to get some new info on my distances. The lies are slightly different so I'll have to see just how that affects my game. One thing I was very curious about was that no offset is labeled on the Titleist website about the DTR's nor do they have a labeled bounce. I'm not sure if it is because they are so old that they don't have the data on the site or if they actually just don't have these properties (which seems unlikely to me). I do plan on taking these clubs for a fitting pretty soon which is something I'm pretty pumped for.

When you go for your fitting, I hope the fitter does a "wrist to floor" measurement, since your overall height has very little to do with the club length you need. It's how long your arms are. There are NBA stars that actually need shorter than standard clubs because their hands are down around their knees!

Newer clubs being longer and less lofted than older clubs is old news! This is a game the club manufacturers have been playing with us for years. This is because they wanted to claim that their clubs were "longer". So, they turned a 6 iron into a 5, and eventually a 4.5 iron. Then we chops were left to wonder why we couldn't hit long irons anymore, and why we suddenly needed a "gap" wedge. Where did the gap come from?

Keep us posted.

7 hours ago, Typhoon92 said:

I can talk on this one pretty well...

Last year I got fitted and picked up a set of Ping ie-1 irons and Callaway pm grind wedges.  All have the Nippon Modus 105 shaft in them.  Previous to that I was playing Ping Eye 2 copper irons and wedges with Microtaper shafts.

Big takeaway was better dispersion.  Gone was the big hook, replaced by shots that moved very little.  

Next was ballflight and spin.  The new irons were drop and stop.  Just the right amount of spin to prevent ballooning, loss of distance and this probably helped out with the dispersion I mentioned before.

Last is distance ..the better spin numbers game me more distance along with the ball still just checking up.  Eye2 wedges I could back up 15 feet...ball would go nowhere in the air and then be uncontrollable on the green.

 

I'm a believer in you have to keep your club and ball era's together.  New clubs are tested using current model golf balls.  Therefore, my Eye 2 irons didn't perform as well with a pro v1.  I used to hit them further back when it was balata or a Topflite ball.

For a test, I took some titleist professionals, balata and pro v1 out and hit them with the Eye2 irons.  I hit the balata and professional lower and it sort of just skipped in and grabbed on the green.  The pro v1 was much higher, shorter and sucked back 10 feet.  I was comparing balls using a 9 iron.

Sort of like putting model T wheels and tires on a zl1 corvette.

Some great points here, Typhoon! My buddy plays a slightly older set of irons. One day while we were playing he found a Pro V-1 on the course. The thing looked like brand new out of the sleeve! So, he decided to put it in play to see what it could do.

Off the tee performance was fantastic, but his approach shots suddenly began coming up short! He hits his irons high anyway and his usual choice of ball was the Titleist Velocity. With the Pro V-1's, his iron flight profile started looking like the first big hill on a roller coaster! He couldn't figure it. He'd dead nut an approach, and the thing would come up short! I told him the Pro V-1 was different, that it was real "spinny" off the irons and would balloon on him.

Back in the day, when I could actually play, I loved the Titleist Tour Balatas! That was one incredible golf ball!

[Grizvok]

29 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

When you go for your fitting, I hope the fitter does a "wrist to floor" measurement, since your overall height has very little to do with the club length you need. It's how long your arms are. There are NBA stars that actually need shorter than standard clubs because their hands are down around their knees!

Newer clubs being longer and less lofted than older clubs is old news! This is a game the club manufacturers have been playing with us for years. This is because they wanted to claim that their clubs were "longer". So, they turned a 6 iron into a 5, and eventually a 4.5 iron. Then we chops were left to wonder why we couldn't hit long irons anymore, and why we suddenly needed a "gap" wedge. Where did the gap come from?

Keep us posted.

Some great points here, Typhoon! My buddy plays a slightly older set of irons. One day while we were playing he found a Pro V-1 on the course. The thing looked like brand new out of the sleeve! So, he decided to put it in play to see what it could do.

Off the tee performance was fantastic, but his approach shots suddenly began coming up short! He hits his irons high anyway and his usual choice of ball was the Titleist Velocity. With the Pro V-1's, his iron flight profile started looking like the first big hill on a roller coaster! He couldn't figure it. He'd dead nut an approach, and the thing would come up short! I told him the Pro V-1 was different, that it was real "spinny" off the irons and would balloon on him.

Back in the day, when I could actually play, I loved the Titleist Tour Balatas! That was one incredible golf ball!

I actually got to thinking about that very thing pretty quickly after I posted that. Compared to my height though, I do have pretty average length arms. It's really just a guess on my part that slightly longer clubs suit me, but that's generally the way I've felt about these old irons since I started playing.

My AP2's didn't arrive today...so sad,

 

[Grizvok]

20 hours ago, Typhoon92 said:

I can talk on this one pretty well...

Last year I got fitted and picked up a set of Ping ie-1 irons and Callaway pm grind wedges.  All have the Nippon Modus 105 shaft in them.  Previous to that I was playing Ping Eye 2 copper irons and wedges with Microtaper shafts.

Big takeaway was better dispersion.  Gone was the big hook, replaced by shots that moved very little.  

Next was ballflight and spin.  The new irons were drop and stop.  Just the right amount of spin to prevent ballooning, loss of distance and this probably helped out with the dispersion I mentioned before.

Last is distance ..the better spin numbers game me more distance along with the ball still just checking up.  Eye2 wedges I could back up 15 feet...ball would go nowhere in the air and then be uncontrollable on the green.

 

I'm a believer in you have to keep your club and ball era's together.  New clubs are tested using current model golf balls.  Therefore, my Eye 2 irons didn't perform as well with a pro v1.  I used to hit them further back when it was balata or a Topflite ball.

For a test, I took some titleist professionals, balata and pro v1 out and hit them with the Eye2 irons.  I hit the balata and professional lower and it sort of just skipped in and grabbed on the green.  The pro v1 was much higher, shorter and sucked back 10 feet.  I was comparing balls using a 9 iron.

Sort of like putting model T wheels and tires on a zl1 corvette.

Very good stuff man. I'm just getting to the point where I think playing the same ball every round is probably a good idea. I bought two dozen Srixon Soft Feel's last round so that'll be my game ball for quite a while and for consistency's sake probably what I stick to for the rest of this season.

[Grizvok]

Just got them in yesterday. Haven't been able to hit with them yet unfortunately but I'm planning on two range sessions tomorrow, one before work and one after. Even though each similarly named newer club is only fractions of an inch longer, I can definitely feel the increased length just holding the club at address. I really really like how they look though and the general feel of the club is superb.

[Buckeyebowman]

Cool! Let us know how the fitting goes and how the clubs work out,

[Grizvok]

On 7/27/2017 at 9:05 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Cool! Let us know how the fitting goes and how the clubs work out,

Haven't had time to get to a fitting quite yet, but I'm really loving the AP2's. I've been getting some excellent feedback in my swing thread and some of the things I've been working on have really helped my consistency as well as power and control.

[Joeyvee]

The AP2's are great clubs, but you're putting the cart before the horse. If you really want the proper clubs for your swing you need to go into a fitting being brand agnostic. Find the best clubs for you then buy em..

[iacas]

On 7/24/2017 at 9:52 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

When you go for your fitting, I hope the fitter does a "wrist to floor" measurement…

I would hope they'd do a dynamic fitting, not relying on any real static measurements.

[Buckeyebowman]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I would hope they'd do a dynamic fitting, not relying on any real static measurements.

True! Wrist to floor is only to get an idea of length. Then you need a dynamic fitting to determine shaft flex profile, swingweight, overall weight, etc.

[Grizvok]

So I don't know much about fittings but say I have some really bad repetitive motion in my stroke such as early extension of the spine (absolutely a problem of mine that isn't quite my priority piece but it's getting there) and when I'm at the fitting with my flawed stroke I consistently produce an early extension of the spine swing that seems to favor a certain combination of length/lie/loft for each club.

Do the bad mechanics that need worked on in my swing influence the properties of the club that produce the best results?

[mailman]

I played golf in NZ when visiting family a few months ago and used a set from the golf club from the dark ages (no idea when from BUT they looked old and were a brand Id never heard of...and did I say they looked old?).

Anyway, my misses were just as big with my Titliest bats, my drives were just as long as my Titliest driver and my chipping was just as bad as with my vokeys! 

Of course that was a completely unscientific way of looking at this from a data pool of one round but hey, from the 4 hours of loving I had with this old set of bats I really couldn't tell just how much different they were from my more modern set of bats. So take this with about as much seriousness as you pay for advice on the intraweb :)

Regards

Mailman

[p1n9183]

Changed last year my 1997 Ping ISI for brand new Titleist 716 AP1. Isn´t that much of a difference. 
Nicer feel when you hit them on the sweet spot.
I little more forgiveness on misshit shot but just a bit.
Same lateral dispersion.
Same carry distance.
Better looks ?

They are better but if you don´t play that often you wouldn´t notice that much difference.

[Grizvok]

The biggest thing I've noticed is forgiveness. Like since I've had these babies I've only really noticed 3 or 4 instances of real "stingers" that actually have hurt my hands from the terrible contact which happened a bit more often with my old irons. On slightly fat or thin shots I'm also noticing significantly better ball flight and distance. Granted my technique and ball-striking have been improving at a rapid pace so at this juncture it's difficult to say what's causing what.

Of course some added distance overall too but I'm mainly chalking that up to the similarly named clubs being less lofted on the newer irons. I "think" they are more workable and allow you to shape shots a bit better but since I'm new I don't really try anything like that except every once in a while at the range.