Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[johnclayton1982]

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Pretty much what @mvmac said. 

Some of my best shots come after hitting a bad one, when I was mad. 

In some regards, overthinking and not letting the physical part of the game is more detrimental. 

The golf game is physical, and most golfers are just using the word mental as an excuse. I've seen higher handicaps have extreme concentration and hit a crappy shot. I've seen good golfers just walk up to the ball and hit a good shot with out much effort. 

 

Why are you equating tons of concentration to good mental skills and lack of concentration to bad mental skills?

Throughout this thread there is no definition of what is good mentally and what isn't.  Compare Nick Flado and Boo Weekly.  I'd argue they both succeed largely because of their mentality, especially the mechanics of early Faldo, but their mentalities are completely different - from borderline obsessive concentration to almost not paying attention.

This is the part of this thread that leaves me scratching my head.  Why is the guy who has "extreme concentration" using mental skills and the guy barely cocnetrating not using any?  Its really, really hard to force yourself to not care in pressure situations.  That is mental skill.

Being able to not think and put your brain away *is a mental skill* not a physical one.  It doesn't mean physical is more important, it means the mental ability to get your brain shut off is important.  They both go hand in hand, and there is no answer that is not player dependent.

The only thing we know for sure is without the physical nothing works.

Edited October 1, 2017 by johnclayton1982

[Jack Watson]

8 hours ago, mvmac said:

o if you wanted to get to a 3 handicap, you think improving your mental game is going to get you there? Improving the mental (more positive outlook or whatever) isn't going to change the physical (which is the reason you're an 8). Golfers can be as zen as they want and it's not going to change the fact they flip it.

No.  That's not what I am trying to express.  

If I wanted to cut my handicap by five plus strokes,  I would need to quite obviously improve my swing skill.  That starts in the mind with desire.  If I had enough desire,  I could go out and hit more range balls,  chip and putt and practice sand shots.  That's physical,  like lifting weights.  In my experience that might help a tiny bit,  but if I really had the desire it would be far more important to use my mind and my mental discipline to identify the swing evolution that needs to happen and use a step by step disciplined process.  Evolving the swings shape requires tremendous mental discipline and commitment.  I would need to change my mental mode to conscious control in order to evolve.

A ton of people I see and Hogan said it too waste hours and hours repeating their flaws instead of evolving their intent.  Without desire and without a smart disciplined approach to improvement (both mental) improvement is very unlikely.

Obviously some of the most skilled athletes in the world are better than most mortals even if they are just goofing around.

I am not saying that simply learning to focus better can take a golfer with my swing and shoot par.  That is not what I am trying to express.

@jsgolfer

obviously not.  I am not trying to say mental tricks equals scratch golf at all.  I am saying the road is much harder if you don't know what you're doing.  Knowing what you're doing is a mental aspect.

I could drill 50000 reps of something meant to improve my swing but if the mental connections are never made it's nothing but useless physical activity that caused no real evolution in understanding and mechanics.

[David in FL]

37 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

No.  That's not what I am trying to express.  

If I wanted to cut my handicap by five plus strokes,  I would need to quite obviously improve my swing skill.  That starts in the mind with desire.  If I had enough desire,  I could go out and hit more range balls,  chip and putt and practice sand shots.  That's physical,  like lifting weights.  In my experience that might help a tiny bit,  but if I really had the desire it would be far more important to use my mind and my mental discipline to identify the swing evolution that needs to happen and use a step by step disciplined process.  Evolving the swings shape requires tremendous mental discipline and commitment.  I would need to change my mental mode to conscious control in order to evolve.

A ton of people I see and Hogan said it too waste hours and hours repeating their flaws instead of evolving their intent.  Without desire and without a smart disciplined approach to improvement (both mental) improvement is very unlikely.

Obviously some of the most skilled athletes in the world are better than most mortals even if they are just goofing around.

I am not saying that simply learning to focus better can take a golfer with my swing and shoot par.  That is not what I am trying to express.

@jsgolfer

obviously not.  I am not trying to say mental tricks equals scratch golf at all.  I am saying the road is much harder if you don't know what you're doing.  Knowing what you're doing is a mental aspect.

I could drill 50000 reps of something meant to improve my swing but if the mental connections are never made it's nothing but useless physical activity that caused no real evolution in understanding and mechanics.

By that reasoning, playing golf is 100% mental because you made a conscious decision to do so.  

That decision has far less to do with your ability to do so than your physical capacities and limitations though.  You can also "decide" to get as good as you can imagine.  Sadly, those physical limitations will only take you so far, no matter how hard to think about it...

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

If I wanted to cut my handicap by five plus strokes,  I would need to quite obviously improve my swing skill.  That starts in the mind with desire.  If I had enough desire,  I could go out and hit more range balls,  chip and putt and practice sand shots.  That's physical,  like lifting weights.  In my experience that might help a tiny bit,  but if I really had the desire it would be far more important to use my mind and my mental discipline to identify the swing evolution that needs to happen and use a step by step disciplined process.  Evolving the swings shape requires tremendous mental discipline and commitment.  I would need to change my mental mode to conscious control in order to evolve.

That's not what the mental aspect of golf is. We're talking about physical skills (swinging the club) versus mental skills (shot selection). You're getting into some weird philosophical realm and as @David in FL pointed out, would make playing golf 100% mental. I'll take that one step further and say by your definition, everything you do is 100% mental.

Or alternatively, I'll argue that since the brain is an organ with neurons and synapses, mental function is actually physical. Or chemical. Golf is 100% chemical. 

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

A ton of people I see and Hogan said it too waste hours and hours repeating their flaws instead of evolving their intent.  Without desire and without a smart disciplined approach to improvement (both mental) improvement is very unlikely.

That's still not a mental skill. The improvement is made on a physical skill. Not knowing what or how to improve isn't a mental skill. If I go to an instructor who shows me what areas I need to improve, I haven't improved my mental game.

[Jack Watson]

@billchao

so you contend that the extent of the mental aspect of golf is shot selection?  

Wow.

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, Jack Watson said:

@billchao

so you contend that the extent of the mental aspect of golf is shot selection?  

Wow.

I don't think anyone has said anything like that.  But again, the question raised by the OP is not whether there is a mental component to the game, but rather, which component is greater.  

The physical is significantly more so.  Honestly, I'm surprised, and a bit amused by those that seem to think otherwise.

[billchao]

11 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

@billchao

so you contend that the extent of the mental aspect of golf is shot selection?  

Wow.

The words in parentheses are examples.

I like how you didn't have anything to respond to what I said, instead electing to nitpick an idiosyncrasy in my writing style.

[Jack Watson]

Okay guys

"Don't ever try to tell me golf is not 99.9% mental"

 

-Jack Nicklaus

 

[David in FL]

2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Okay guys

"Don't ever try to tell me golf is not 99.9% mental"

 

-Jack Nicklaus

 

Simple hyperbole.

I imagine he would simply shake his head at the thought that anyone would take it literally.

[Jack Watson]

Last one,  its astonishing to me the narrative espoused here so last point...

[Lihu]

21 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Okay guys

"Don't ever try to tell me golf is not 99.9% mental"

 

-Jack Nicklaus

 

When you can drive the ball in the top 0.1% of all golfers in the world, you can pretty much say anything.

I'm sure if Dustin or Rory were to say practice meditation every morning to increase your ball speed suddenly a ton of golf meditation facilities will pop up all over the world and actually have tons of customers willing to pay the initiation fee. Because that's all they're going to get when the customers realize that "It's not working for them."

 

3 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Last one,  its astonishing to me the narrative espoused here so last point...

Ditto. . .

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lihu

[johnclayton1982]

20 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Simple hyperbole.

I imagine he would simply shake his head at the thought that anyone would take it literally.

He has also said that he had a massive advantage due to his length.

I don't think he was hitting the club with his brain.

It was an interesting discussion Jack Watson turned into an absurdity.  The only way to a mental versus physical, which is more important discussion makes sense is in the context of shot selection.  You don't get to decide if you form myelin or not.  If you do something 50,000 times (your example Jack), you *will* be effected mentally.  Thats how the body works.  Its not "mindless".  It might not be conscious, but it isn't "mindless".  Your talking in circles.  When it comes to the actual swing, the mental and physical cannot be separated.  Where one ends and one begins is impossible to know.

Which is more important to a score, course management and temper or swing mechanics, however, is a question that can actually be discussed.

EDIT

Given that Bobby Jones quote, its weird he spent so much money to have Calamity Jane made.  Why did he need it?  He just played the game inside his head.  Why did he send away to that specialist to mill it?  If its just in his head, why didn't he just use a 2x4 to putt? Careless with money I suppose.

Edited October 1, 2017 by johnclayton1982

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, johnclayton1982 said:

I don't think he was hitting the club  ball with his brain.

This kind of leaves the door open to many jokes concerning "People who think golf is mainly mental".

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lihu

[JonMA1]

After today's round, I'm leaning more towards the importance of the mental game. Not 50/50, but a lot more than what some think and more than I previously believed.

@mcanadiens - I replied to one of your posts saying I could relate to where you were coming from. Today, the lack of mental focus hit me right between the eyes.

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

After today's round, I'm leaning more towards the importance of the mental game. Not 50/50, but a lot more than what some think and more than I previously believed.

@mcanadiens - I replied to one of your posts saying I could relate to where you were coming from. Today, the lack of mental focus hit me right between the eyes.

So, one of my partners said “You don’t have putting Yips.” “You just suck at it”, And with 41 putts that round, I wasn’t going to argue with that. 

So, I think your right about the percentages being more than a percent, but not much more.

All this stuff about mental game is basically about not losing your temper. All the visualization stuff you do could lead to more frustration when you mishit a shot.

So, in this sense not having a mental game might help you score lower, and having one could even be a detrinent.

[sjduffers]

20 minutes ago, Lihu said:

All this stuff about mental game is basically about not losing your temper. All the visualization stuff you do could lead to more frustration when you mishit a shot.

No. I completely disagree with this. Visualization helps you before a shot. It does not hurt you after.  SMH. 

[Jack Watson]

You can't make a swing without your brain sending the signals to make the muscles move.

Subconscious does not mean physical.

Personally I am not a big visualizer.  Some people really do well with that though clearly.

Its ludicrous to say golf is not a mental game.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Jack Watson

[sjduffers]

2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

You can't make a swing without your brain sending the signals to make the muscles move.

Subconscious does not mean physical.

We have to assume it does for the purpose of any discussion on this topic. Otherwise everything is always 100% mental (brain controlled), as has been pointed out several times. Someone even countered by saying that any brain activity is actual physical (neurons firing, etc...) so that everything is 100% physical. Hilarious, true, and also totally besides the point of this topic.