Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[Jack Watson]

4 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

If it as all mental then how come you cant do it every day?  So You never play well when you're not in the zone.  And the only time you've hit lots of greens is when you were in the zone.  Seriously?  I'm sorry, that makes no sense.

From your article:

"While we can’t enter the flow state at will, we can master the basics of a sport in order to be prepared to experience it when it happens - and to yearn for a long time afterward to return to that state again."

So in your mind golf is mental because one time you were in the zone and now you're yearning for it to happen again.  I'll go on my physical ability, you keep your mental prowess.  

Quote

 

Tiger was maybe a guy who was setup to get into the zone more often than most before he ruined it by jacking too much with his mechanics.  He had that lifetime of practice behind him.  He was so strong mentally before he ruined himself with 'science'

I am not saying I control the ability to alter my state of consciousness at will!  I've played like crap and shot in the seventies.  I've played like crap period.  Whatever.  Golf is NOT where I learned these things!  I will say though that these concepts were what allowed me to make my own personal bests.

Also I never said it was all mental at all.  Others here are trying to lay that straw man on me.  You have to have the basic skills down at MINIMUM first.

I am saying that there's a lot more to golf than just working on mechanics.  That's why Tiger faded away.  That's the idea that people have that's so wrong.

That thinking held me back in another sport-that mistaken idea that mechanics evolution equals more skill always.  At some point playing is far more important than mechanics.  The focus at that time must be external. 

After you have developed the fundamentals in any sport there is an opportunity to move beyond them.  

I am simply saying it's a great benefit of practicing a lot and getting good at something that maybe people who have not experienced doubts exists.

My thought is hey if you love the game and practice hard maybe you will find things as a result that you were never looking for.

[David in FL]

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I’ve played with many a golfer in that “altered state”. They had help with some Hawaiian Gold. The more “altered” their state, the longer their drives and lower their scores seemed to be. 

As far as they knew...  

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

A simple, honest question.

Why aren't you a better golfer?  Are you somehow limited mentally?

 

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

As far as they knew...  

Exactly! 

[billchao]

32 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Never said it was all mental or even mostly mental. It's less than half IMO. I'm not talking about zen golf or mind over matter or any of that other horse#%#. It's just that for some of us, it's far more than just a "slight" amount.

If that's not the case for you, then cool - and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. You guys have to understand not everyone is wired the same.

You're missing my point. It's not about how your brain is wired and whether you are more prone to distraction than others.

It's simply that lack of focus will negatively affect most sports and activities you do. It's not unique to golf. If you're going to cite it as a reason golf has a higher mental component, that expanded definition applies to other sports, most of which we would never have this discussion about.

You need a sharp mind and a good swing to play good golf, but a guy with a sharp mind and a poor swing is going to lose to a guy with a good swing who isn't really paying attention to anything he's doing.

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

That thinking held me back in another sport-that mistaken idea that mechanics evolution equals more skill always.  

It's often easier to blame things other than a lack of physical skill for our failings...

[Jack Watson]

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

A simple, honest question.

Why aren't you a better golfer?  Are you somehow limited mentally?

 

My swings not good enough to do better.

I lack a desire to become better,  I had a couple good rounds or my handi would be higher right now.  

I have no desire to practice anymore.  I like playing a friendly round for the challenge. I used to spend a lot of time on the practice ground and playing.  I like to play now if I am in the mood.  I am not OCD golfer anymore.

I think the cool thing about golf is that each individual feels the challenge regardless of level.  I am good enough for me.

 

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

My swings not good enough to do better.

I lack a desire to become better,  I had a couple good rounds or my handi would be higher right now.  

I have no desire to practice anymore.  I like playing a friendly round for the challenge. I used to spend a lot of time on the practice ground and playing.  I like to play now if I am in the mood.  I am not OCD golfer anymore.

I think the cool thing about golf is that each individual feels the challenge regardless of level.  I am good enough for me.

 

All of which demonstrate a lack (currently) of physical skill.  Otherwise you could simply engage your mental acuity to score better.  Surely when you do play, you would prefer to score better, rather than worse...  

Edited October 2, 2017 by David in FL

[Jack Watson]

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

It's often easier to blame things other than a lack of physical skill for our failings...

Talent is limited.

I learned about that by experience over a quarter century of training.

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, Jack Watson said:

Talent is limited.

I learned about that by experience over a quarter century of training.

Yep.  Regardless of mental effort.

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

No,  but you might make a new personal best.  Especially if you currently hold the mistaken belief that golf is not mental.

Dude, the game isn't that mental. I shot the best tournament round of my life after staying out the night before until 4 AM and waking up at 6 again. I was, quite literally, falling asleep on teeboxes while waiting for the groups ahead to clear. I was very clearly not on my "A" game mentally, but because I was physically at my "A" game I was able to score well.

The same cannot be said for someone who is completely out of it physically, with respect to the swing.

The game is at least 95% physical, and maaaaaaybe 5% mental.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Pretzel

[NCGolfer]

1 minute ago, Pretzel said:

The game is at least 95% physical, and maaaaaaybe 5% mental.

This is what I'm thinking.  The game is much more physical and talent around physical abilities (hand-eye coordination).  I think the mental aspect grows a bit more as your handicap lowers but I still think it is much more physical.

[JonMA1]

53 minutes ago, billchao said:

You're missing my point. It's not about how your brain is wired and whether you are more prone to distraction than others.

It's simply that lack of focus will negatively affect most sports and activities you do. It's not unique to golf. If you're going to cite it as a reason golf has a higher mental component, that expanded definition applies to other sports, most of which we would never have this discussion about.

You need a sharp mind and a good swing to play good golf, but a guy with a sharp mind and a poor swing is going to lose to a guy with a good swing who isn't really paying attention to anything he's doing.

Who said golf had a higher mental component than other sports?

And your example is irrelevant to my point. I'm talking about how I play against either my potential or average or whatever - not against someone with better mechanics.

My only disagreement is with anyone who believes the mental part of the game has little impact for everyone.

I don't think we are really disagreeing if you believe that both are important but that the physical part is more important. If you want to say it is "much" more important, that's fine. In the end, it's all opinion as to what degree.

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, JonMA1 said:

Who said golf had a higher mental component than other sports?

And your example is irrelevant to my point. I'm talking about how I play against either my potential or average or whatever - not against someone with better mechanics.

My only disagreement is with anyone who believes the mental part of the game has little impact for everyone.

I don't think we are really disagreeing if you believe that both are important but that the physical part is more important. If you want to say it is "much" more important, that's fine. In the end, it's all opinion as to what degree.

Do you define little as <5%? Or something like over 20%? Even so, the poll in this thread doesn't reflect that. The poll indicates that almost 1/3 of the people think that golf is more than 50% mental.That just isn't true.

All sports have some "mental"aspect. Golf is no different as you say.

That's originally why there were cheerleaders in football and basketball and such to "incentivize" the players. The mental aspect is usually good when you are at the point of exhaustion which golfers and baseball players don't generally see.

[JonMA1]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Do you define little as <5%? Or something like over 20%?

Why is this important? Today it was 38.75%. Seriously, what different does it make, and how could you possibly determine what is true or not true with another golfer? Got any science to back up that claim that with no one in the world could it possibly be more than 50%?

This is a pissing contest @Lihu. If @Pretzel claims it's maybe 5%, no one else should dispute that. Same with anyone else who claims 10% or 20% or 30%.

For the record and for like the 10th time, I don't think it's anywhere near 50/50 for me, but it's certainly beyond 5% on most days.

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, JonMA1 said:

Why is this important? Today it was 38.75%. Seriously, what different does it make, and how could you possibly determine what is true or not true with another golfer?

Regardless, you think Physical is more than the mental even on a day you think it more "mental" than others.

 

1 minute ago, JonMA1 said:

Got any science to back up that claim that with no one in the world could it possibly be more than 50%?

Pretty much it's all "Proof by example". So there is not real proof, but here's an interesting take.

https://break80golf.com/golf-mental/

Pareto principle (80/20 rule)

 

 

1 minute ago, JonMA1 said:

This is a pissing contest @Lihu. If @Pretzel claims it's maybe 5%, no one else should dispute that. Same with anyone else who claims 10% or 20% or 30%.

For the record and for like the 10th time, I don't think it's anywhere near 50/50 for me, but it's certainly beyond 5% on most days.

Not a pissing contest, but I am hoping that you still voted "physical" as by your own "estimates" of a bad "mental" day it was still under 50%?

Check this out too. . .

http://www.thekiaiway.com/golf-mental-game/

[Jack Watson]

52 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Dude, the game isn't that mental. I shot the best tournament round of my life after staying out the night before until 4 AM and waking up at 6 again. I was, quite literally, falling asleep on teeboxes while waiting for the groups ahead to clear. I was very clearly not on my "A" game mentally, but because I was physically at my "A" game I was able to score well.

The same cannot be said for someone who is completely out of it physically, with respect to the swing.

The game is at least 95% physical, and maaaaaaybe 5% mental.

John Daly played his best still drunk from the night before.  He admits it!

People are not allowing this discussion to even begin to become interesting but one study I have read claims that the brain waves are in an alpha state in a zone or flow.

This is actually a state of less activity than a normal waking state for most people.  Yes less activity.  Yes an altered form of consciousness.  Lack of sleep affects people different ways.  Mentally you may have not wanted to take the differential calculus exam that day but you sure kicked butt on course!

Your hangover round has been done thousands of time by many golfers.  It's not talked about but it's very true and they even alluded to it in the tin cup movie.

Your tourney round story is SO the thing I am talking about.

Harry Vardon said a tranquil mind is best for golf.  

Altered state? 

Baefore people try to nail me again I have to reiterate that the learned skill must be pretty ingrained first.  Practice is paramount.

Great story!

 

For the record a prerequisite to what I am talking about involves a lot of reps previously done in a fundamentally sound manner.

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

John Daly played his best still drunk from the night before.  He admits it!

People are not allowing this discussion to even begin to become interesting but one study I have read claims that the brain waves are in an alpha state in a zone or flow.

This is actually a state of less activity than a normal waking state for most people.  Yes less activity.  Yes an altered form of consciousness.  Lack of sleep affects people different ways.  Mentally you may have not wanted to take the differential calculus exam that day but you sure kicked butt on course!

Your hangover round has been done thousands of time by many golfers.  It's not talked about but it's very true and they even alluded to it in the tin cup movie.

Your tourney round story is SO the thing I am talking about.

Harry Vardon said a tranquil mind is best for golf.  

Altered state? 

Baefore people try to nail me again I have to reiterate that the learned skill must be pretty ingrained first.  Practice is paramount.

Great story!

 

For the record a prerequisite to what I am talking about involves a lot of reps previously done in a fundamentally sound manner.

There is definitely something to this a well. No one denies that your state of mind does affect how you perform.

The only thing people are arguing is how much is a reasonable estimate?

For my wild game, 1 stroke is nothing so mental plays nothing. If I had a round when I need 2 strokes to win or if I needed those 6 to 8 putts per round I could casually lose then my mental game would be “maximized”. However, I doubt without the extra physical training that I’d get more than 2 strokes total though.