Faster Greens = Slower Play

[wannabe]

I surmise that the reason for significantly slower pace of play due to faster greens would be due to the need for more strokes from off the green because approach shots didn't hold the faster greens as often as the slower ones.

From what I can tell, though, the study didn't include this aspect in their stats.  They only considered time spent on the green.  To which I surmise a similar effect, in that approach shots that stayed on the faster greens were relatively speaking further from the hole than on slower greens, resulting in more time spent.

Ultimately, though, 7 mins per round difference?  I don't understand how that can be considered statistically significant over a 4-5 hr. round.

 

[klineka]

1 minute ago, wannabe said:

I surmise that the reason for significantly slower pace of play due to faster greens would be due to the need for more strokes from off the green because approach shots didn't hold the faster greens as often as the slower ones.

 

In my opinion, how receptive a green is is different than the green speed. You can have a soft green that is mowed short and the ball would stay on the green, but still leave you with fast putts. 

[wannabe]

Just now, klineka said:

In my opinion, how receptive a green is is different than the green speed. You can have a soft green that is mowed short and the ball would stay on the green, but still leave you with fast putts. 

Softness being equal, though, faster would tend toward less receptive.

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, wannabe said:

Softness being equal, though, faster would tend toward less receptive.

Most golfers come up short, though, no? So maybe they're actually closer to the hole on these faster greens.

[wannabe]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

Most golfers come up short, though, no? So maybe they're actually closer to the hole on these faster greens.

Maybe, but I’d wager that’s a stretch that more approaches end up closer to the pin on faster vs. slower greens.

Other variables:

Most pin position placements on fast v slow?

Most green tilts (toward/ away from fairway) on fast v slow?

Difficulty of approach shots on courses with fast v slow greens?

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, wannabe said:

Maybe, but I’d wager that’s a stretch that more approaches end up closer to the pin on faster vs. slower greens.

My point was that I think it's a stretch that you're suggesting the opposite is true, too.

I'm not thinking that hard about this study. It's not a very well-done study.

[wannabe]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

My point was that I think it's a stretch that you're suggesting the opposite is true, too.

I'm not thinking that hard about this study. It's not a very well-done study.

Ok.  Since you didn’t think about it too hard I’ll let you off the hook.  

[NM Golf]

17 hours ago, wannabe said:

Softness being equal, though, faster would tend toward less receptive.

Perhaps on undulating greens maybe, I cannot see how on a relatively flat green a difference of one or two feet will even be noticable. Its negligible at best.

[Ty_Webb]

As one who has had all sorts of trouble with spinning balls off false fronts, soft fast greens can go jump in a lake...

[The Hook Meister]

Of course faster greens mean longer play, the more three putts the longer it takes. If the course is so crowded you 30 min's just to tee off who cares about saving 4.5 min..

[Buckeyebowman]

While the stats may say otherwise, I'm not a total believer in stats!

I've been in foursomes on courses where the greens were extremely fast and tricky. Things slowed so much to a crawl on the greens that I was going crazy!

Let's face it, The guys were afraid of the greens, especially after blowing a few putts a mile by! So, they'd slow down even more, and just read the living crap out of them, meanwhile, not doing very much better!  And I'm not just pointing fingers at others, I've been there myself!

I finally arrived at a point where I just figured that I'd make my read, stroke the putt, and let the chips fall where they may. Oddly enough, this actually improved my putting. My original read was right much more often than it was wrong.

Over-reading leads to errors!

[saevel25]

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Let's face it, The guys were afraid of the greens, especially after blowing a few putts a mile by! So, they'd slow down even more, and just read the living crap out of them, meanwhile, not doing very much better!  And I'm not just pointing fingers at others, I've been there myself!

I don't see this happening that often.

I've been on a course that routinely keeps their greens near 12-13. I've played a round many times there just as fast as any other course who runs their greens on at an 8-9. I've never seen a person slow down their putting routine on fast greens.

 

[Lihu]

On 1/5/2018 at 10:18 AM, The Hook Meister said:

Of course faster greens mean longer play, the more three putts the longer it takes. If the course is so crowded you 30 min's just to tee off who cares about saving 4.5 min..

 

On 1/9/2018 at 6:11 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

While the stats may say otherwise, I'm not a total believer in stats!

I've been in foursomes on courses where the greens were extremely fast and tricky. Things slowed so much to a crawl on the greens that I was going crazy!

Let's face it, The guys were afraid of the greens, especially after blowing a few putts a mile by! So, they'd slow down even more, and just read the living crap out of them, meanwhile, not doing very much better!  And I'm not just pointing fingers at others, I've been there myself!

I finally arrived at a point where I just figured that I'd make my read, stroke the putt, and let the chips fall where they may. Oddly enough, this actually improved my putting. My original read was right much more often than it was wrong.

Over-reading leads to errors!

What the heck takes people so long to putt? You read it, setup and putt. I might rush one putt per round that I regret, but how the heck does it take a minute for each player to putt every single putt?

I've spent most of my round times just waiting for people to putt out on basically flat greens, and they walk around the ball and the hole use their clubs to eyeball it or Aimpoint for up to a minute per putt. One time, I hit the green off the tee and waited by my friends ball 40 yards away from the green as they inspected their putts then took 3 to 4 minutes to realize they were waiting for me to mark my ball which I finally did then they took another 5 minutes to putt while I was standing there on the fringe looking like an idiot with a fresh batch of golfers collecting near by buddy 40 yards away. I mean, come on, are they playing for $1000 skins on public courses?