Shot Zone- Approach Shots

[HJJ003]

Good Morning Folks!

Quick Shot Zone question for you! I enjoy watching the Tour guys play on tv, and often wonder how would I play that hole. Well last week was the Farmers at Torrey Pines and one of the things I noticed that there was numerous holes to which players were hitting approach shots into greens that had both sides flanked by bunkers. I started looking at the course in more detail on Google Earth, and I noticed that for most of my approach shots my shot zones would have both bunkers in play pretty easily. I could take one bunker out of play by aiming at the other, but I am not sure thats a good strategy. Maybe it is? Or would it be best to just lay up short of these bunkers and take them out of play altogether. The problem I see with that is that the bunkers still give me a chance to advance the ball so maybe I should just take aim dead center of the green and take what I get. I know GIR is King so laying up may not be the best play because it takes away the chance of me hitting the GIR? For a 22 cap what do you think is best? 

Thanks. 

[saevel25]

If you know you bring in both bunkers. Then it would probably be beneficial to just keep as much green as an option. The more you play away from one bunker, the more you might take some of the green out of play.

Even if your shot zone is large, are the shots equally distributed through out the zone? Do you tend to end up hitting more shots on the right side or left side? You can try to play towards your more typically miss.

Since your handicap is near 20, I would say just aim at the middle of the green.

 

[HJJ003]

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If you know you bring in both bunkers. Then it would probably be beneficial to just keep as much green as an option. The more you play away from one bunker, the more you might take some of the green out of play.

Even if your shot zone is large, are the shots equally distributed through out the zone? Do you tend to end up hitting more shots on the right side or left side? You can try to play towards your more typically miss.

Since your handicap is near 20, I would say just aim at the middle of the green.

 

Thanks for the reply. Ok thats what I kind of figured, it would be best to just get as much green as possible within the shot zone and let it rip. Therefore, as you stated I would just have to aim deadcenter. Thanks for confirming.

[billchao]

35 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If you know you bring in both bunkers. Then it would probably be beneficial to just keep as much green as an option. The more you play away from one bunker, the more you might take some of the green out of play.

Even if your shot zone is large, are the shots equally distributed through out the zone? Do you tend to end up hitting more shots on the right side or left side? You can try to play towards your more typically miss.

Since your handicap is near 20, I would say just aim at the middle of the green.

 

I agree with what Matt wrote.

The only thing I'll add is, where you take your approach shot from affects the angle your shot zone ends up over the green, so maybe your shot zone covers both bunkers from the middle of the fairway but you can avoid most of one from the left rough or something. That's why you can't really do this ahead of time.

[klineka]

I think there are a bunch of different factors and the answer will change from hole to hole.

Which club you are hitting into the green will affect the size of your shot zone and the decisions you should make. 

Its probably not recommended to lay up on a par 4 when you are in the middle of the fairway with a 9 iron in hand, but it might be more appropriate to lay up (while still advancing the ball as far as you can) if you are in the rough and 240 yds out on a par 5.

I think that is one thing that needs to be remembered, laying up doesnt have to be and shouldnt be driver then 9 iron leaving yourself 100+ yds out for your 3rd. Laying up can be driver then hybrid which you know wont reach the bunkers, leaving yourself 30 yards, compared to driver then 3 wood which would bring those bunkers into play. I think you would score lower over time with the driver-hybrid-pitch option compared to driver-3wood-maybe chip, maybe bunker, maybe green option.

You are correct that the bunkers still give you a chance to advance the ball, but as a 22 hcp your bunker play is probably not that good, and being in the bunker means that you have to get out of the bunker in one shot, which can be difficult and puts much more pressure on yourself compared to being in the fairway or the rough maybe 10 yards further back of the bunkers.

If I remember right, there was something in LSW stating that bunkers should almost be treated as hazards for most golfers? I'll look for that section when I get home tonight and see if I can find it.

Another thing to consider is assuming there is just a bunker short left and a bunker short right, what is behind the green? If theres plenty of room and no water or OB or anything long and you know a 3 wood or whatever club will clear the bunkers, then thats when I think it makes more sense to go for it, even if you landed on the green or back fringe and it rolls through into the rough behind the green, you'll still score better from aiming like middle/back of the green than you would if you tried to aim for the front/middle of the green, bringing those bunkers into play.

 

I'm pretty sure this is hole 1 on the North Course at Torrey. Without knowing much about the elevation and wind and such, this is how I would think about this approach shot if I was in the fairway with 230 or so left to the middle of the green. I dont know my or your exact shot zones so the circles are just for reference. A normal 3 wood is right around 230 for me according to GameGolf. If this was into wind at all or uphill at all, I'd hit hybrid (215 yd club) to the yellow circle, knowing it wouldnt reach the bunkers, since a mishit 3 wood would probably land me in the red circle, bringing all 3 bunkers into play. If it was downwind or down hill at all I would probably hit the 3 wood since I am pretty confident with it and a well struck one can go over 230, and there is no penalty for missing long (other than thick rough potentially).

I dont really see much benefit in laying up any shorter than the yellow circle, unless you are in very thick rough or blocked out by a tree.

[HJJ003]

4 minutes ago, klineka said:

If I remember right, there was something in LSW stating that bunkers should almost be treated as hazards for most golfers? I'll look for that section when I get home tonight and see if I can find it.

Yes it states .5 to 2 strokes depending on the player and the severity of the bunker. I read that last night while looking at this, which lead to my post. 

6 minutes ago, klineka said:

'm pretty sure this is hole 1 on the North Course at Torrey. Without knowing much about the elevation and wind and such, this is how I would think about this approach shot if I was in the fairway with 230 or so left to the middle of the green. I dont know my or your exact shot zones so the circles are just for reference. A normal 3 wood is right around 230 for me according to GameGolf. If this was into wind at all or uphill at all, I'd hit hybrid (215 yd club) to the yellow circle, knowing it wouldnt reach the bunkers, since a mishit 3 wood would probably land me in the red circle, bringing all 3 bunkers into play. If it was downwind or down hill at all I would probably hit the 3 wood since I am pretty confident with it and a well struck one can go over 230, and there is no penalty for missing long (other than thick rough potentially).

I dont really see much benefit in laying up any shorter than the yellow circle, unless you are in very thick rough or blocked out by a tree.

Yeah makes sense. So would you argue that long of green is better than short of bunkers because there is a chance you can get a GIR? 

[klineka]

Just now, HJJ003 said:

Yeah makes sense. So would you argue that long of green is better than short of bunkers because there is a chance you can get a GIR? 

Not necessarily. Assuming we are talking about a par 5 here, you can get GIR from both. I haven't played too many, if any par 4s where I have 230+ yards in for my 2nd shot.

It also depends on how the green slopes, what the area behind the green looks like, and how thick the rough is. If theres a big mound thats long of the green and being back there would give you an awkward stance downhill chip from thick rough to a back pin with only a few yards or less of green to work with and a heavy back to front downhill slope, I'd prefer to be short of the bunkers and in the fairway. Thats kind of an extreme example and typically there might only be a couple of those factors in play but it gets the point across. If the area behind the green is pretty much flat and the rough isnt too bad, then it wouldnt really matter.

If the pin is in the front, then maybe being in thick rough and long of the green isnt too bad because you can bump and run the ball out and let it roll most of the way towards the front.

[HJJ003]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Not necessarily. Assuming we are talking about a par 5 here, you can get GIR from both. I haven't played too many, if any par 4s where I have 230+ yards in for my 2nd shot.

It also depends on how the green slopes, what the area behind the green looks like, and how thick the rough is. If theres a big mound thats long of the green and being back there would give you an awkward stance downhill chip from thick rough to a back pin with only a few yards or less of green to work with and a heavy back to front downhill slope, I'd prefer to be short of the bunkers and in the fairway. Thats kind of an extreme example and typically there might only be a couple of those factors in play but it gets the point across. If the area behind the green is pretty much flat and the rough isnt too bad, then it wouldnt really matter.

If the pin is in the front, then maybe being in thick rough and long of the green isnt too bad because you can bump and run the ball out and let it roll most of the way towards the front.

Yeah I guess I had Par 4 approach shot in mind when I asked that, but your right your example was more for a Par 5. I think the thing for me is to slow down before my approach shots and think about some of these things before swinging the club. Sometimes I get in the habit of X distance=X club and swing away. I need to get better and evaluating things like my lie, angle to the green, trouble etc. I think the way to do that is take the time to think about it before the shot even if it takes a minute or so. I really enjoy discussing course strategy, just need to think through it like you did above. 

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

Yeah I guess I had Par 4 approach shot in mind when I asked that, but your right your example was more for a Par 5. I think the thing for me is to slow down before my approach shots and think about some of these things before swinging the club. Sometimes I get in the habit of X distance=X club and swing away. I need to get better and evaluating things like my lie, angle to the green, trouble etc. I think the way to do that is take the time to think about it before the shot even if it takes a minute or so. I really enjoy discussing course strategy, just need to think through it like you did above. 

I try not to get to complicated.

Most approach shots are easy to digest. Of course taking into account things like ball position, wind, and slope near the green comes into play. Typically it's not hard to get a gut feeling as to were you need to aim.

[klineka]

13 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

Yeah I guess I had Par 4 approach shot in mind when I asked that, but your right your example was more for a Par 5. I think the thing for me is to slow down before my approach shots and think about some of these things before swinging the club. Sometimes I get in the habit of X distance=X club and swing away. I need to get better and evaluating things like my lie, angle to the green, trouble etc. I think the way to do that is take the time to think about it before the shot even if it takes a minute or so. I really enjoy discussing course strategy, just need to think through it like you did above. 

On a par 4, lets say same green as I pictured above, but only 150 yards into the green. my 9 iron is my 150 club, but I'd probably hit a soft 8 iron into the green instead. A mishit 9 iron would bring the bunkers into play, where a soft 8 iron would put me middle of the green, a flushed 8 iron would take me back fringe/back rough. I'd have to really chunk the 8 iron to bring the bunkers into play. I dont see the advantage of hitting a PW short of the bunkers if that were a par 4, I just dont scramble at a high enough percentage to expect a par if I laid up short of the bunkers.

 

I also enjoy discussing course strategy, and its much easier to think about this stuff when sitting behind a computer and not on the actual course. That is one thing I want to improve on myself heading into 2018, actually applying these thoughts when I'm on the course. Often I will play half the round before I remember to take my shot zone into account and aim away from bunkers and towards the middle of greens.

[iacas]

It's still really just about shades of grey.

The putting green is the lightest. The fairway short of the green is light, but not super light, like the green. The bunkers are medium to dark.

Lightest colored egg.