Wanna feel depressed? Start tracking your Strokes Gained

[Yukari]

8 minutes ago, lastings said:

This graph shows that there is not much difference (in terms of strokes gained) between 25+ HC player and a scratch player.  There is only 7 stroke difference between 25+ HC and a scratch player.  Yet the total stroke difference between a scratch player and 25+ handicap is at minimum 25 strokes.  This means 18+ of those differences come from the long game (of course near the green strokes gained can reduce that number, but similar to putts, I don't think by much).

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, lastings said:

Seems pretty accurate to me. We're not only not good at long game but also short game. 3 strokes is huge between 11-15 and a scratch, but long game is like 10 strokes?

Yeah, we're pretty bad. . .

[lastings]

5 minutes ago, Yukari said:

This graph shows that there is not much difference (in terms of strokes gained) between 25+ HC player and a scratch player.  There is only 7 stroke difference between 25+ HC and a scratch player.  Yet the total stroke difference between a scratch player and 25+ handicap is at minimum 25 strokes.  This means 18+ of those differences come from the long game (of course near the green strokes gained can reduce that number, but similar to putts, I don't think by much).

Yep, I tried to be super clear in my point above when I said, "PGA players are superior putters to the common man.  But, that superiority doesn't create nearly as many strokes as their superiority off the tee." 



 

10 minutes ago, klineka said:

You cant use this to support your argument when you just told me putts per round is a flawed stat. (Although I do agree that it is a flawed stat to an extent.)

fair. 
 

11 minutes ago, klineka said:

The ball is traveling slower on faster greens so the capture size of the hole increases which means more putts should be made on faster greens compared to slower greens.

I will agree that players will make more putts from further distances on faster greens.   But they will also miss more putts, and by larger margins.  I can guarantee you that there is a higher % of 3 putts (and 4 putts) on 12 stimp greens than there is on 8 stimp greens.   without looking at any actual data, I am 100% sure of this based on many experiences.  

 

16 minutes ago, klineka said:

I'm not trying to say that amateurs are better putters than PGA players, I'm just saying the difference isn't as large as most people think.

I think we're in agreement there. 

[DaveP043]

20 minutes ago, lastings said:

I will agree that players will make more putts from further distances on faster greens.   But they will also miss more putts, 

I know what you were trying to say, I think, but a player can't both make more putts and miss more.  If they make more, they miss fewer.  This is a case where it really IS a zero-sum game.  Of course its certainly possible to make more from longer range, and still 3-putt more if the misses are bad misses.

[Osnola]

I find this stuff interesting, especially the putting numbers by Handicap...I play right at 20, and my average putts for the last 6 rounds I have averaged 33 putts, which is, according to the chart right at a HDCP of 10....I know where I lose my strokes.  It is the errant tee shot and/or the flubbed 2nd shot.

It is hard to score on a par 4 hole when the 2nd shot (really your 3rd because tee shot was unplayable) does not do the job and you get on in 4 and 2 putt.  Or you get on a par 5 in 5 and one put for bogey....I think that if I am gong to gain any strokes, it may be from 150 yards and out....Any body else suffer from the same things?????

[lastings]

20 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I know what you were trying to say, I think, but a player can't both make more putts and miss more.  If they make more, they miss fewer.  This is a case where it really IS a zero-sum game.  Of course its certainly possible to make more from longer range, and still 3-putt more if the misses are bad misses.

ha..   yeah, I thought about that as I was typing it.    in all actuality, everyone makes the same amount of putts.   18.

really what I was getting at is that if there is a nice smooth green, there is a better chance of making an 8-footer.   but, much more difficult to hole out that 40 footer in 2 putts.  

 

[Lihu]

21 minutes ago, Osnola said:

I find this stuff interesting, especially the putting numbers by Handicap...I play right at 20, and my average putts for the last 6 rounds I have averaged 33 putts, which is, according to the chart right at a HDCP of 10....I know where I lose my strokes.  It is the errant tee shot and/or the flubbed 2nd shot.

It is hard to score on a par 4 hole when the 2nd shot (really your 3rd because tee shot was unplayable) does not do the job and you get on in 4 and 2 putt.  Or you get on a par 5 in 5 and one put for bogey....I think that if I am gong to gain any strokes, it may be from 150 yards and out....Any body else suffer from the same things?????

I was reminded of this by @iacas recently. Lower handicaps, like a 10 compared to a 20, also tend to hit more greens and are usually closer to the pin than a higher handicap so that kind of skews the putting averages as well. For instance, a 10 handicap will in general be putting from a longer distance for birdie while a 20 handicap might be putting for par from a closer distance.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Lihu

[Missouri Swede]

20 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

This thread made me kinda wonder....is there any good PGA ballstriker who is held back by consistent bad putting? (Relative to the Tour of course?)

 

I guess Im basically who has the biggest spread between tee and approach and putting.

 

20 hours ago, dennyjones said:

 

Best and worse putters on the PGA Tour

 

10 best putters on the PGA Tour

1. 1. Michael Thompson -- 0.84 strokes gained per round
2. 2. Rickie Fowler -- 0.761 strokes gained per round
3. 3. Luke Donald -- 0.704 strokes gained per round
4. 4. Graeme McDowell -- 0.576 strokes gained per round
5. 5. Brian Harman -- 0.542 strokes gained per round
6. 6. Jonas Blixt -- 0.536 strokes gained per round
7. 7. Patrick Reed -- 0.511 strokes gained per round
8. 8. Mac Hughes -- 0.492 strokes gained per round
9. 9. Gonzalo Fernandez-Castaño -- 0.489 strokes gained per round
10. 10. Shane Lowry -- 0.488 strokes gained per round

10 worst putters on the PGA Tour

1. 181. Robert Garrigus -- -0.456 strokes gained per round
2. 182. Brett Drewitt -- -0.457 strokes gained per round
3. 183. Scott Piercy -- -0.462 strokes gained per round
4. 184. Jason Kokrak -- -0.468 strokes gained per round
5. 185. D.A. Points -- -0.478 strokes gained per round
6. 186. Brett Stegmaier -- -0.514 strokes gained per round
7. 187. Rod Pampling -- -0.518 strokes gained per round
8. 188. Brad Fritsch -- -0.596 strokes gained per round
9. 189. Boo Weekley -- -0.954 strokes gained per round
10. 190. Ryan Palmer -- -1.066 strokes gained per round

If I’m looking at it the right way, there’s only a 1.9 stroke difference in putting between the best and worst (0.84 + 1.066).

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, lastings said:

I think this would be a pretty good test for an avid game golf user (or, group of users).   note green speeds for every round played and see what the average strokes gained is at different speeds.   

I would love to see actual data on this.

Lotta holes with that sort of study.

Another reason: faster greens, they can't put the pins on more than about 1-2% slope. Very few PGA Tour putts break much inside of about 6 feet.

Stimp 8 green? You can have that baby on a 4% slope all day.

2 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

If I’m looking at it the right way, there’s only a 1.9 stroke difference in putting between the best and worst (0.84 + 1.066).

"only"????

1.9 strokes is HUGE on the PGA Tour.