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Darkenor

How can I go up from 105 mph?

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Usual caveats about feels and not being universal or whatever.  But I actually really like the Xander Schauffele (sp?) bit in GD this month.  One drill I think I might try that he recommended is setting up normally, then stepping your front foot back to hip width, with club head only coming back a bit.  Then start your swing and near the top step into the swing.  I've only done this with dry swings, but I like the way it gives you the feel of using your whole body to drive power through the swing.  Then again, I grew up as both a pitcher and hitter in baseball, so this kind of feel might be particularly attractive for me.

The other feel/thought he mentioned that I like is the one of trying to get very high speed but only right AT the ball.  The motivational story he told was the drill his dad made him do, trying to hit a nail all the way into a board with only one hit.  Sort of forcing you to figure out how to smoothly approach the hit with control so you don't smash your fingers holding the nail, but to explode with enough force that you get the nail all the way in.

I know these aren't really directly guaranteed to increase your swing speed, but they seemed somewhat relevant...

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Earlier someone asked me what I thought about my original post, so I thought I'd respond. The recommendations for the speed swing trainers look fantastic and I'm going to have to order some. And the advice to keep working out and refining your swing technique is also appreciated. Some other gems in the thread were personal testimonies on increasing/decreasing swing speed and what worked for them.

On the negative side, I find that this thread seems to reflect a lot of the reason I believe golf has decreased in popularity over the years. Consider the fact that after I asked my (rather objective) question and got these as initial responses:

1. You can't/won't do it
2. Why do you want to do it?
3. You are wrong for wanting to do it.
4. You aren't physically capable
5. There are better things you could be doing
6. You should know your limits

Shockingly, I believe (haven't bothered to confirm) that some of these thoughts come from what appear to professional golf instructors. This being the case, I can't help but think they must be terrible at their job. The coaches I had growing up always encouraged me to go toward any goal and to work at it harder and harder. A positive mindset can overcome most things. And while it alone can't make you Tiger Woods, it can certainly help you on your way toward becoming a better golfer.

Something else I thought I should express is that it's also stunning to me how many people on this thread tried to discourage swing speed with an almost religious doctrine approach - even so far as to say it doesn't matter. I thought it was really funny when a post later said "No, you're wrong. It's important. Thinking it isn't makes you old fashioned." That made me laugh. 

Anyhow, I've been working out *hard* the past week and I've already seen an increase in 1mph consistently!!! :) 

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You have a good outlook.  I'm sure you will succeed, and when you do please post about it!

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11 minutes ago, Darkenor said:

Earlier someone asked me what I thought about my original post, so I thought I'd respond. The recommendations for the speed swing trainers look fantastic and I'm going to have to order some. And the advice to keep working out and refining your swing technique is also appreciated. Some other gems in the thread were personal testimonies on increasing/decreasing swing speed and what worked for them.

On the negative side, I find that this thread seems to reflect a lot of the reason I believe golf has decreased in popularity over the years. Consider the fact that after I asked my (rather objective) question and got these as initial responses:

1. You can't/won't do it
2. Why do you want to do it?
3. You are wrong for wanting to do it.
4. You aren't physically capable
5. There are better things you could be doing
6. You should know your limits

Shockingly, I believe (haven't bothered to confirm) that some of these thoughts come from what appear to professional golf instructors. This being the case, I can't help but think they must be terrible at their job. The coaches I had growing up always encouraged me to go toward any goal and to work at it harder and harder. A positive mindset can overcome most things. And while it alone can't make you Tiger Woods, it can certainly help you on your way toward becoming a better golfer.

Something else I thought I should express is that it's also stunning to me how many people on this thread tried to discourage swing speed with an almost religious doctrine approach - even so far as to say it doesn't matter. I thought it was really funny when a post later said "No, you're wrong. It's important. Thinking it isn't makes you old fashioned." That made me laugh. 

Anyhow, I've been working out *hard* the past week and I've already seen an increase in 1mph consistently!!! :) 

No one means badly by their comment, it's just that people have limits to what they can achieve.  We don't know yours, but do know that there will be a wall at some point.  If you have a mechanically sound swing, building club head speed may not give you as many problems.  If you are still working on getting a good swing, trying to swing faster may cause more problems from bigger misses.

My clubhead speed is consistently 122mph right now, while my boss is at 125mph.  I've seen a peak clubhead speed of 150mph by a friend of mine.  One thing I have definitely noticed from seeing people try to swing faster is that they lose all sense for tempo.  Bad tempo, bad swing, big misses.

If you want more speed, go for it! Just remember tempo and that a relaxed muscle moves faster than a tense muscle.

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23 minutes ago, Darkenor said:

Earlier someone asked me what I thought about my original post, so I thought I'd respond. The recommendations for the speed swing trainers look fantastic and I'm going to have to order some. And the advice to keep working out and refining your swing technique is also appreciated. Some other gems in the thread were personal testimonies on increasing/decreasing swing speed and what worked for them.

On the negative side, I find that this thread seems to reflect a lot of the reason I believe golf has decreased in popularity over the years. Consider the fact that after I asked my (rather objective) question and got these as initial responses:

1. You can't/won't do it
2. Why do you want to do it?
3. You are wrong for wanting to do it.
4. You aren't physically capable
5. There are better things you could be doing
6. You should know your limits

Shockingly, I believe (haven't bothered to confirm) that some of these thoughts come from what appear to professional golf instructors. This being the case, I can't help but think they must be terrible at their job. The coaches I had growing up always encouraged me to go toward any goal and to work at it harder and harder. A positive mindset can overcome most things. And while it alone can't make you Tiger Woods, it can certainly help you on your way toward becoming a better golfer.

Something else I thought I should express is that it's also stunning to me how many people on this thread tried to discourage swing speed with an almost religious doctrine approach - even so far as to say it doesn't matter. I thought it was really funny when a post later said "No, you're wrong. It's important. Thinking it isn't makes you old fashioned." That made me laugh. 

Anyhow, I've been working out *hard* the past week and I've already seen an increase in 1mph consistently!!! :) 

Congratulations on increasing your speed.  Would you want to share what exactly you've done to accomplish that?

As to the somewhat off-topic comments, those are pretty common for most public forums.  In your first post, you ask a single specific question.  But we don't know a single thing about you, not your age, handicap, ball flight, haven't seen a video of your swing.  Nobody here has any idea if you're actually capable of swing faster.  Even though you WANT to swing faster, that might not be the thing you need most to play golf better.  Most of us here are all about playing better golf, shooting lower scores.  As such, its fair game to question whether swing speed should be your priority, and the questions are quite germane to helping you play better golf.  For many players, working on swing speed would be a total waste of time, something else might be more important to work on right now.  

Anyway, welcome to TST, and good luck with your quest for speed :beer:

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Speed is definitely important.  I found it pretty amazing that was still a thing to discredit or question it.  I think people are still stuck in that old guy phase of "just swing smooth and hit it straight."  Short hitters are always first to discredit the pursuit of speed and power of others.  I don't know if it's a bit of insecurity on their part or just an old way of thinking.

So what are you guys doing to increase speed?  I'm not the strongest guy around (deadlift 325, squat 370, bench 210, overhead press 150), but I feel like I've got enough to get faster.  I try to powerlift MWF with yoga right afterward, and do cardio TRSat with super speed training with the radar.  I've gotten a bit faster and I'm seeing better ballspeed on my gc2.  I also just try to feel the "swoosh" just past the ball to get a bit of snap.  Seems to help, but wanted to see what you guys do.

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I figure the 2 biggest contributors to speed:

1. Form

2. Core

 

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13 minutes ago, 3jacker said:

I figure the 2 biggest contributors to speed:

1. Form

2. Core

 

Might be true.  I do question the "core" issue some.  I get the stability part and such, but it doesn't hold onto the club nor swing the club.  Your hands and arms do.

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Yeah but for those to move fast, consistently and repetitively, they need to be swinging from a stable base.  Weak core = bad habits, out of position, power leaks.

Strong pecs, lats and biceps add nothing.

Look at Bubba.  He's got muppet arms and the legs of a 14 year old female cross country competitor.  He's got little strenght overall, but his core seems strong enough to stabilize his wispy limbs as the flail about.

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29 minutes ago, 3jacker said:

I figure the 2 biggest contributors to speed:

1. Form

2. Core

 

This. And This. And This some more.

In answer to those who asked what I've been doing, it's pretty simple:

1. Diet and Hydration - I'm very overweight and if you want to HOPE to be a faster golfer, you have to be in shape
2. Core strength - I have been strengthening my core through workouts and going to the driving range with the goal of swinging as hard as I possibly can. Sometimes I shank the ball. Sometimes I crush it. But I just don't care. I just keep swinging until that number goes up and I start to him them straight at that number. Then I push harder.

What I've discovered that is very surprising to me is that the faster I go, the straigher my ball goes. I think it's because when you have a fast swing you simply *must* swing correctly and therefore your form is on solid ground. 

The big things blocking my speed right now are:

1. A tendency to want to "lift up" (I hate this. I have done this my entire golf life and can't seem to stop).
2. Waiting at the top of my swing for my arms to catch up with my body.

It was a fluke number (or a blessing from the gods) but yesterday I absolutely *destroyed* a ball at a radar speed of 111mph and it knocked out of the driving range. That range is at least 275 yards, so I'm wondering what was happening. 

Anyhow, I am going to keep working out, dieting, hydrating, and trying. I am going to do this!!!

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My personal homegrown experience so take it with a grain of salt: 

I have no idea how it feels to swing at 105 or over. My SS is between 102-103 (measured with SS radar and AFTER I warm up..:-)) so OP already further ahead but FWIW I am also 43 yo, 5'6",155 lbs and slightly crooked left forearm from an old injury. I was at 94-95 mph early 2017. And yes, I hit much fewer OBs to boot. 

Three things in my experience helped:

1) I used a 50gm shaft driver I bought for $40 (normal play shaft is 60 gms) for swinging fast whooshes along with my normal driver alternatively. Trains muscles to be fast without overloading them. I think important to not spin out and fall back on your trail foot which wrong sequencing and overloading promotes. Many recommend a 10 gram heavier shaft along with the light and normal shaft. I don't, but that's just my thought process. I am sure there would be some strength gains, but if you are already singing 105 I think you are good.  

2) Mental imagery - think quick NOT hard. - Jamie Sadlowski. I love it. 

3) Get a swing speed radar for practice if you haven't already - You will get faster by simply measuring/calibrating yourself everyday or some high weekly frequency.

BTW, not at all surprised by someone gaining a few MPH by simply deciding to do so. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Darkenor said:

On the negative side, I find that this thread seems to reflect a lot of the reason I believe golf has decreased in popularity over the years. Consider the fact that after I asked my (rather objective) question and got these as initial responses:

1. You can't/won't do it
4. You aren't physically capable
6. You should know your limits

There's a limit to everyone's swing speed. Some people - like myself - naturally have more speed than others.

4 hours ago, Darkenor said:

2. Why do you want to do it?
5. There are better things you could be doing

It may not be the most important thing you need to do right now (which isn't to say you can only do one thing at a time).

4 hours ago, Darkenor said:

3. You are wrong for wanting to do it.

That's probably a harsher summary than what people said.

4 hours ago, Darkenor said:

Shockingly, I believe (haven't bothered to confirm) that some of these thoughts come from what appear to professional golf instructors. This being the case, I can't help but think they must be terrible at their job.

I made two posts in this topic that weren't talking about the SuperSpeed stuff, which I use with my juniors, my daughter, and myself or asking you "what you think" to see if you were still reading the topic. Here they are:

On 4/15/2018 at 8:33 AM, iacas said:

Nowhere near 99% of your weight goes to your back foot @winninggolfer. Sometimes in some players 90% pressure goes back but usually not much above 60% weight.

That one's got little to do with the topic, and was a response to @winninggolfer.

On 4/8/2018 at 8:10 PM, iacas said:

You might not ever. Some people are born capable of more speed than others.

There you go.

That statement - a truth - makes me "terrible at my job"?

Yeah… no. Some golfers will never swing 115 MPH. Not with anything resembling control with a real golf club. Was my comment brief? Yes, because I know the community we have here, and I knew others would jump in to contribute. They did.

But thanks for the uninformed insults. :-( (I genuinely don't care. You don't know me. Just consider this type of comment in the future a little bit more, eh?)

4 hours ago, Darkenor said:

The coaches I had growing up always encouraged me to go toward any goal and to work at it harder and harder. A positive mindset can overcome most things. And while it alone can't make you Tiger Woods, it can certainly help you on your way toward becoming a better golfer.

It's not gonna overcome biology.

My kid is not yet 5' tall. She's not gonna swing 115 MPH, probably not ever, no matter how good her mindset.

About the rest… I wrote a book and in that book we talk multiple times about the importance of swing speed. In that book, most of which is not about technique but instead about strategies (game planning, practice, etc.), two (arguably three) of the 28 chapters are about hitting the ball far.

Beyond that… and to the general idea… it's a golf forum. You're going to find that people have different opinions. You're welcome to have and share your own, too. Just save the insults in the future, hmmm?

3 hours ago, 3jacker said:

Yeah but for those to move fast, consistently and repetitively, they need to be swinging from a stable base.  Weak core = bad habits, out of position, power leaks.

Strong pecs, lats and biceps add nothing.

Look at Bubba.  He's got muppet arms and the legs of a 14 year old female cross country competitor.  He's got little strenght overall, but his core seems strong enough to stabilize his wispy limbs as the flail about.

It's not the size of the arms that matter, @3jacker, and you should check out:

I don't have particularly big arms at all. My legs are very thick, very muscular. Calves, quads, hamstrings… I have trouble finding pants that fit, in fact. I have a belly. My core? Meh.

2 hours ago, Darkenor said:

1. Diet and Hydration - I'm very overweight and if you want to HOPE to be a faster golfer, you have to be in shape

Note that I'm not going to say that being "in shape" is a bad thing. It's a very good thing. But it's effects on your golf swing may be smaller than you anticipate.

Case in point #1: John Daly. (He was fat, but likely "in shape" if you're talking about the ability to generate speed, of course).

Case in point #2: One of my college golfers weighs 420 pounds. The three years I've been coaching him, he's consistently one of the longest players I've taught. This year he's second to a player who weighs about 130 pounds despite being 6'1".

01.jpg

Again, not saying being in shape isn't good… just that it may not do as much for your swing speed as you might think.

2 hours ago, Darkenor said:

2. Core strength - I have been strengthening my core through workouts and going to the driving range with the goal of swinging as hard as I possibly can. Sometimes I shank the ball. Sometimes I crush it. But I just don't care. I just keep swinging until that number goes up and I start to him them straight at that number. Then I push harder.

That's good.

Again I recommend the SuperSpeed stuff:

https://superspeedgolf.com/product/superspeed-golf-training-system-mens-radar-bundle/ref/iacas/

I have two sets myself (the junior and adult set for my daughter and I), and we have sets at our training facility as well. This isn't an empty recommendation. I recommend this over things like the Orange Whip and the yellow copy, because studies have shown that swinging things that are too heavy or too light can actually train you to swing SLOWER.

2 hours ago, Darkenor said:

1. A tendency to want to "lift up" (I hate this. I have done this my entire golf life and can't seem to stop).
2. Waiting at the top of my swing for my arms to catch up with my body.

It was a fluke number (or a blessing from the gods) but yesterday I absolutely *destroyed* a ball at a radar speed of 111mph and it knocked out of the driving range. That range is at least 275 yards, so I'm wondering what was happening.

Look at starting a "Member Swing" thread: https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/.

111 MPH -> 166 MPH ball speed with a near perfect strike, and with optimal launch conditions… about 290 carry, maybe a few yards more. Good for you.

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That's kind of what I was saying.  Arm size doesn't matter.

And anyone who is an excellent and golfer and has been swinging for many years is likely to have a "strong enough" core. But many who have not, regardless of how they look, may not have a core ready for a high-speed, 120-mph + golf swing from 105.  That's all I was saying.

The core comment wasn't meant you have to be in excellent shape. You just have to be good enough to provide a stable axis and platform to swing from and prevent the inclination to slide, hunch, flip, spin, etc.

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You have to be in excellent shape to hit the ball a long way. I myself am in excellent shape. ROUND is a shape after all. :-P

No you don't have to be in great shape, and I am sorry there is a lot of biology that goes into hitting a golf ball a long way. Not everyone can be an olympic sprinter, not everyone can be a world class long jumper, and not everyone can dunk a basketball and all the positive thinking and core strengthening in the world can change that.

BUT,

You can improve to a point, and you can choose to play golf courses at a comfortable length. Have fun and don't worry so much about it. 

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