What I've learned from 6 rounds with Arccos..

[lastings]

So, I've now played 6 rounds tracked with Arccos sensors on my clubs.  

Some things, I knew to be true before I started (such as, my approach game needs work.)   Other things I was surprised about, (such as that I am a really good putter.)

but, the things I found my self to be surprised about make sense once you look at the data.  

 

To begin with, My approach game is pretty bad.  From 50-200 yards, I'm only hitting the green 31% of the time.     From 100-160 (full SW-full 8-iron) where I should be money, I'm only hitting 46%.    no wonder i'm not getting any birdies.  
but, with what we know from LSW and other stuff, this is expected to be a weak point. 

secondly, my I am terrible at scrambling.   I'm only getting up and down 18% inside of 40 yards.   And, this does not appear to be a derivative of poor putting.  as a matter of fact, quite the opposite.  I've had more than a few up and downs because I followed a chip by hitting a 8-15 foot putt.   
On chips from 5-10yds from the hole, my avg result is 12 feet from the cup  On chips between 10-20 yds from the hole, my average result is 36 feet from the cup.    This is pretty horrific.  

The good news is the other facets of the game.   

As far as Driving the ball goes, I'm hitting 58% of fairways, averaging 255yds off the tee.   Typical range between 241 and 267.   5 balls getting over 280.   really nothing to complain about there at all.   obviously there is always room for improvement, but I wouldn't begin to suggest that is what is holding my scores back.  

Putting is a similar story.   And, this is one area where I think the data has really enlightened me.  I'm nearly perfect inside of 6 feet. hitting about 45% from 7-10 feet.   and almost never 3-putt.   
I always thought I was a bad putter because I've always averaged like 35 putts per round.     but, given that I am only hitting about 5 GIR per round, I'm chip/pitching on 13 holes.  I'm only getting up and down on 2.5, where I should be chipping close enough to get up-and-down on 5.    So, My chipping alone is costing me 2.5 putts per round, not to mention my horrendous proximity to the pin when I do hit the green.  

 

 

I find this super interesting.   as a 10 handicap, I would really wonder what the biggest similarities/differences are with other handicaps in my range.   I assume we are all losing a bunch of strokes on approach.   but, are most other 8-12 handicaps horrific at scrambling, or is this a personal issue and I'm keeping my scores down by making up for it with Driving and Putting?   

 

 

[klineka]

12 minutes ago, lastings said:

I find this super interesting.   as a 10 handicap, I would really wonder what the biggest similarities/differences are with other handicaps in my range.   I assume we are all losing a bunch of strokes on approach.   but, are most other 8-12 handicaps horrific at scrambling, or is this a personal issue and I'm keeping my scores down by making up for it with Driving and Putting?   

Since I'm a similar handicap, here are my stats from GameGolf (19 rounds) Those are my strokes lost per round. So positive strokes lost (like I have) is bad, and negative strokes lost is actually strokes gained. Kind of confusing at first but basically the same thing.

 

[lastings]

That's really interesting, actually.  biggest difference i think is obviously your 8+ GIR per round.vs. my 4.5...   Given that we putt pretty similarly, it's  surprising we share a similar handicap.   

[iacas]

Remember, too, that if you're comparing yourself against another type of player (say, scratch), you should see about:

• 28% of your shots lost driving.
• 40% of your shots lost on approach shots.
• 18% of your shots lost on short game shots (though <100 yards).
• 14% of your shots lost on putting.

Don't just look at the static numbers. Losing 3, 4, 2, and 1 strokes to a scratch golfers as a 10 handicapper would make you pretty typical, and not in possession of a "glaring weakness."

For example my GG:

That's 14.84 strokes saved.

• ~27% from driving.
• ~47% from approach shots (better than expected, so a strength).
• ~8% from short game (my "weakness").
• ~18% from putting (a strength).

(I'm doing it in reverse, of course, as I'm the scratch-ish [+0.9] level golfer and so I'm comparing myself against a 10.)

You can't really just look at the numbers. You have to look at the average contribution, too.

Also, six rounds is not a lot of data. Especially if you play a somewhat unique course with, say, tougher greens or easier greens. Wider fairways. Smaller greens. Whatever.

P.S. I never practice my short game or putting. I should - and I keep saying this, too, I know - be better with my short game, too, but honestly I'm lazy about practicing it because I feel like my putting makes up for it. Which it kinda does - combined they're 26% of my strokes saved, and that's with my approach shots taking up more than their fair share. In other words, I'm lazy about practicing my short game because I feel like if I can get it to ten feet I can make the putt. Even though I also know that's not really true… it is to a certain extent to me. And my short game isn't that bad. It's just the "weakest" part of my game right now.

[p1n9183]

You have 2 weekness. Approach and short game. 
In short term it´s easier to practice short game. Turn that 18% up and down, down to 50% saving 4 strokes.
In long term it´s better to practice ball striking to achive 12 GIR saving almost 6 strokes.
If you improve both you will save in the long term almost 8 strokes.
 

[klineka]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

Remember, too, that if you're comparing yourself against another type of player (say, scratch), you should see about:

• 28% of your shots lost driving.
• 40% of your shots lost on approach shots.
• 18% of your shots lost on short game shots (though <100 yards).
• 14% of your shots lost on putting.

Reading that made me curious so I applied it to my own stats when compared to a scratch golfer (7.4 shots lost total according to GameGolf)

• 15% of my shots lost driving
• 49% of my shots lost on approach
• 33% of my shots lost on short game shots
• 2% of my shots lost on putting

That's surprising to me. I knew I wasnt the best ball striker and short game wizard, but I didnt know they were 10 and 15% worse than they should be. 

@lastings One possible explanation for the difference in GIR but similar hcp is that some of the courses I play are quite easy, (67.4/110 @ 6,000 yds for example) so its easier for me to hit GIR, but I still have my share of tops, duffs, etc.

Another possible explanation is you are in the fairway off the tee more often than I am, and I am terrible with my irons on approach shots out of the rough. When I miss the fairway, I dont get too many pars. I dont actively think about that during the round when I do miss the fairway, but thats how it appears to shake out in the stats.

Edited June 6, 2018 by klineka

[lastings]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Also, six rounds is not a lot of data. Especially if you play a somewhat unique course with, say, tougher greens or easier greens. Wider fairways. Smaller greens. Whatever.

 

This is true.   Will be interesting to see how this evolves over the course of the summer.    Considering that My 6 rounds include Streamsong Blue (huge fairways), Ak-Chin southern Dunes in Arizona (tiny greens), Wi-ko-pa - Cholla (which was quite long for me, playing at 6,800 yds), and a few average Minnesota courses.     I'm quite sure the 13 of 14 fairways hit at Streamsong, skew my driving accuracy a bit in the positive direction, and the two AZ courses probably skew my GIR in the negative direction.    should all even out over the summer, though.  

6 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

You have 2 weekness. Approach and short game. 
In short term it´s easier to practice short game. Turn that 18% up and down, down to 50% saving 4 strokes.
In long term it´s better to practice ball striking to achive 12 GIR saving almost 6 strokes.
If you improve both you will save in the long term almost 8 strokes.
 

I could really use an extra 8 strokes.  now, if doing was as easy as saying..   😂

Edited June 6, 2018 by lastings

[HJJ003]

5 minutes ago, klineka said:

Reading that made me curious so I applied it to my own stats when compared to a scratch golfer (7.4 shots lost total according to GameGolf)

• 15% of my shots lost driving
• 49% of my shots lost on approach
• 33% of my shots lost on short game shots
• 2% of my shots lost on putting

That's surprising to me. I knew I wasnt the best ball striker and short game wizard, but I didnt know they were 10 and 15% worse than they should be. 

You beat me to it, but I did the same thing lol. 

- 23% of my shots lost driving (Sort of a strength I guess?)

- 40% of my shots lost on the approach (Right on the Nose)

- 16% of my shots lost in the short game (A slight strength as well)

- 21% of my shots lost are due to putting (Glaring weakness alert!!!)

 

[lastings]

13 minutes ago, klineka said:

 

@lastings One possible explanation for the difference in GIR but similar hcp is that some of the courses I play are quite easy, (67.4/110 @ 6,000 yds for example) so its easier for me to hit GIR, but I still have my share of tops, duffs, etc.

Another possible explanation is you are in the fairway off the tee more often than I am, and I am terrible with my irons on approach shots out of the rough. When I miss the fairway, I dont get too many pars. I dont actively think about that during the round when I do miss the fairway, but thats how it appears to shake out in the stats.

I would say this has quite a bit to do with it.   I've been vacation golfing quite a bit.  When I do that, I get out to some pretty tough courses.   Averaging about 71.5/127 @ 6,400+...     That'll probably normalize a bit as I get back to Minnesota golf.   The course I play most often is 69.9/123 @  6,146.   

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, klineka said:

Reading that made me curious so I applied it to my own stats when compared to a scratch golfer (7.4 shots lost total according to GameGolf)

How are you losing only 7.4 strokes to a scratch golfer as a 9.6 index?

20 minutes ago, klineka said:

That's surprising to me. I knew I wasnt the best ball striker and short game wizard, but I didnt know they were 10 and 15% worse than they should be.

Remember, too, that's if you want to compare yourself to an average player of your ability level (losing whatever strokes you lose total).

These numbers aren't hard and fast… they're averages of the entire range. That said they tend to be kinda close:

And I was slightly off. I had said 40% and 18%.

[klineka]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

How are you losing only 7.4 strokes to a scratch golfer as a 9.6 index?

Couple of reasons I think. First, my GameGolf rounds includes a number of solo rounds where I played quite well (rounds of 75,76,78 that I know were for sure solo rounds), which dont count towards my handicap. Second, there are 3 scores in the 90+ range from late last summer (including my dreadful appearance at the TST outing before I joined evolvr and got LSW) that haven't dropped off the calculations yet.

[iacas]

Just now, klineka said:

Couple of reasons I think. First, my GameGolf rounds includes a number of solo rounds where I played quite well (rounds of 75,76,78 that I know were for sure solo rounds), which dont count towards my handicap. Second, there are 3 scores in the 90+ range from late last summer (including my dreadful appearance at the TST outing before I joined evolvr and got LSW) that haven't dropped off the calculations yet.

Oh, okay. So what's your GG handicap? (Not that it's super official, but you know…).

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Oh, okay. So what's your GG handicap? (Not that it's super official, but you know…).

Not sure where they are getting the 5.0 from when GG says I've lost 7.4 strokes to scratch (1.11 + 3.65 + 2.47 + .17)

On my google sheets doc where I keep track of my handicap rounds, my hcp is 9.6 and my average score there over my last 20 rounds is 84

[dennyjones]

Glad to see some relative information about strokes lost via either Game Golf or Arccos.   I've only played 8 rounds since acquiring GG and my  GG handicap is 15.1.    I play multiple courses with no real home this year.    

 

- 19% of my shots lost driving 

- 38% of my shots lost on the approach 

- 24% of my shots lost in the short game

- 20% of my shots lost are due to putting 

 

[Carl3]

2 hours ago, lastings said:

 as a 10 handicap, I would really wonder what the biggest similarities/differences are with other handicaps in my range.

I got fitted in January 17 for a full set where the fitter said my Nike driver was crap. He was right. Before that my weak point was driving with approach shots being strong. Now that I have a groove on my driver I had trouble with my irons until just recently. Before my driver became a more solid part of my game, I left it in the bag mostly and played a hybrid off the tee, which was a 200 yard club. Before everyone laughs, I averaged 48% GIR with that method. I did not keep track of FIR, but it was pretty high as I rarely pulled driver and was fairly accurate from 200 and in.

I can now set up real good with the driver and have a lot of confidence. My distance off the tee is similar to yours. I think that my recent iron trouble has to do with not getting a good negative angle of attack among some other things. I think that I have tried to swing the irons like the driver, since it has been a strong point. I also play a lot at a par 3 and have gotten used to playing off a tee, which if I am not careful does not translate well to a traditional course. I have started playing these par 3's with out benefit of a tee, which has helped be overcome my recent ball striking difficulties. I think I may be back on track. 

I need to start keeping track at scrambling, but I would estimate that I am high 40's to pushing 50%. This has to do with decent chipping and putting. I also don't have a lot of sand where I play. Since you have identified a chipping weakness, this is pretty easy to practice since it costs nothing and you can find small chunks of time to do it. A few years ago I would go to a course that had a good practice area and spend an hour or two every Saturday and Sunday working on chipping. That went on for a month or so and really helped. 

[Yukari]

That's very interesting statistics and well in-line with my own empirical data.  Whenever I hit 8 + GIR, I am shooting in the 70's.  When I am < 6 GIR, my score is generally in the 80's.

AFAIK, for me it's the approach shots that seems to be the most critical component in shooting a low score.  Sure short game can help in reducing big numbers, but if I really want to shoot a low number, my approach shots have to be dialed-in.

Ergo, a better long game will lower your score faster than a short game.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, klineka said:

Not sure where they are getting the 5.0 from when GG says I've lost 7.4 strokes to scratch (1.11 + 3.65 + 2.47 + .17)

Because your handicap isn't the same thing as your average round.

[lastings]

oohfda.  

played a round this weekend.   Got invited to play Olympic Hills, a private club in Eden Prairie.   Course was super nice, but to note: Greens were extremely fast and well protected.   

I was Driving the ball very well, hitting 7 of 14 fairways.  Lost one in a lake and one in a fairway bunker.  Other than that, all the misses were just off the fairway in the short rough.  
Additionally, I approached pretty well, hitting 7 greens.  and another six that were within 10 yds of the green.   

All of that should have amounted to a pretty nice score, but nope, 94.

Highlighted and kicked off by hole #1.   
Par 5 - hit my drive down the middle, then hit a hybrid 235 down the fairway, coming up 10 yds short of the green.   followed by chipping the ball over the green.  then chipping it back past the hole and just off the fringe.  then chipping 12 ft past the hole, and 2-putting for a double.   (yep, 3 chips and two putts.  you read that right)

my chipping was absolutely atrocious all day.  Remember those 6 holes where I was within 10 yds of a GIR?   I didn't get up and down one single time.  0% up-and-down!

 

It's deep in my head now, and I'm at a loss for how to resolve it,.  It's not like it's something that I haven't practiced at all this summer, but I've definitely  spent way more time with the full swing.   might have to alter my practice ratios for a bit until i can get a handle on it.   (which I can only assume will lead to improved chipping, while my tee game falls apart)   

golf is difficult.