“Legitimate” mulligan via stroke and distance?

[RJN12]

As a new golfer looking to establish a handicap this year, I want to ensure that I keep score 100% correct. I understand that Mulligans are not allowed, but seems that the Stroke and Distance rule provide some relief?

E.g. a few of our holes have spinach type rough in from of the ladies’ tee, and I occasionally duff a drive and end up there - 3 feet ahead. I usually take a mulligan and re-tee, as it is a hopeless lie. Can I do this with an extra shot penalty? I.e. the original tee-shot + penalty + new tee-shot = 3 shots? 

Much appreciate your response!

[Asheville]

Yes, you certainly may, and here's the Rule. It's R27-1a:

At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-27

[RJN12]

Fab - thanks! Stupid spinach lies can ruin a hole for me (and play havoc on my wrists), so this is a lifesaver. It just seemed to good to be true, so wanted to ensure I had understood the rule correctly 😊!

[Martyn W]

43 minutes ago, RJN12 said:

As a new golfer looking to establish a handicap this year, I want to ensure that I keep score 100% correct. I understand that Mulligans are not allowed, but seems that the Stroke and Distance rule provide some relief?

E.g. a few of our holes have spinach type rough in from of the ladies’ tee, and I occasionally duff a drive and end up there - 3 feet ahead. I usually take a mulligan and re-tee, as it is a hopeless lie. Can I do this with an extra shot penalty? I.e. the original tee-shot + penalty + new tee-shot = 3 shots? 

Much appreciate your response!

Yes, replaying the shot is always an option. Rule 20-5: 

 Making Next Stroke from Where Previous Stroke Made

When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows:

(a)

On the Teeing Ground: The ball to be played must be played from within the teeing ground. It may be played from anywhere within the teeing ground and may be teed.

(b)

Through the Green: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

(c)

In a Hazard: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the course in the hazard.

(d

On the Putting Green: The ball to be played must be placed on the putting green.

[saevel25]

Just so people don't get confused since the word Mulligan is in the title. All strokes must be counted when using that rule. Meaning, you count the first stroke you made.

Hit ball into weeds, +1 penalty, Hit ball into fairway, hitting fourth shot from fairway.

 

[HonestyPolicy]

And today you are required to re-tee and hit 3 from the tee if your first ball goes out of bounds. I understand in 2019 there is talk of allowing you to take a lateral drop near the first balls entry point into the OB and be hitting 4 from there. 

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, HonestyPolicy said:

And today you are required to re-tee and hit 3 from the tee if your first ball goes out of bounds. I understand in 2019 there is talk of allowing you to take a lateral drop near the first balls entry point into the OB and be hitting 4 from there. 

This is a new Local Rule, meaning it is up to the course.

I really do not like the way they have it set up, by allowing them to drop in the fairway.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/infographics/golf-s-new-rules--stroke-and-distance.html#expanded

I wouldn't mind the local rule allowing golfers to take 2 club lengths from were they thought the ball entered OB.

[HonestyPolicy]

56 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

This is a new Local Rule, meaning it is up to the course.

I really do not like the way they have it set up, by allowing them to drop in the fairway.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/infographics/golf-s-new-rules--stroke-and-distance.html#expanded

I wouldn't mind the local rule allowing golfers to take 2 club lengths from were they thought the ball entered OB.

Yes, like I said there is "talk", it is not set in stone officially yet, although many think it will not change much between now and then. If you had to drop the ball in the rough most wouldn't do that, they'd re-tee defeating the purpose of speeding up play. I don't like it either, but at my club everyone wants to roll the ball in the rough in the name of "more fun" so I fight those battles.

Hitting the fairway is suppose to be a reward. I'm fine with mark, pick, clean and place in the fairway, it's a reward for hitting it. I realize if ball 1 goes OB, after the drop the player is hitting 4 and thats a 2 stroke penalty, but take 2 high handicappers playing each other. It gives the player who went OB, an advantage over how we play today in that he is guaranteed to be in the fairway hitting 4 with a drop when today he most likely would have been in the rough or hitting 5 from the tee.

Prob off subject........for another post..... 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, HonestyPolicy said:

Yes, like I said there is "talk", it is not set in stone officially yet, although many think it will not change much between now and then.

No, it's pretty much set in stone. They published the proof draft of the 2019 Rules back in… March.

[HonestyPolicy]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, it's pretty much set in stone. They published the proof draft of the 2019 Rules back in… March.

Yes, you are right, but there is always the "less than one percent chance" that it could change with enough uproar between now and when it becomes effective and is adopted in a courses local rules. Is change unlikely, yes. Nearly impossible, probably. I've just learned to never say never until implementation occurs. Peace.

[Shindig]

3 hours ago, Martyn W said:

(d

On the Putting Green: The ball to be played must be placed on the putting green.

Huh, so if you don't like where your ball ends up after putting it, you can pay a penalty to put it back where it was and try again instead of proceeding from where it ends up.  Interesting... 

[HonestyPolicy]

2 hours ago, Shindig said:

Huh, so if you don't like where your ball ends up after putting it, you can pay a penalty to put it back where it was and try again instead of proceeding from where it ends up.  Interesting... 

No the ball must be either unplayable, lost, or in a hazard to go back to the previous spot. You just can't take a penalty stroke and re-putt from the previous spot because you feel like it. Even if you could why would you?

The only time I can think of when you have the option to replay from the previous spot on the green would be if the ball was lost by putting off the green and say into a water hazard. That being said, I do remember years ago Tiger had an eagle putt on #13 at the masters, but he put too much on it and it ran past the hole and off the green into Rae's Creek. One of Tiger's options, and the one he chose to execute, was a rare second putt from the same spot with a 1 stroke penalty.  T

[Shindig]

12 minutes ago, HonestyPolicy said:

No the ball must be either unplayable, lost, or in a hazard to go back to the previous spot. You just can't take a penalty stroke and re-putt from the previous spot because you feel like it. Even if you could why would you?

The only time I can think of when you have the option to replay from the previous spot on the green would be if the ball was lost by putting off the green and say into a water hazard. That being said, I do remember years ago Tiger had an eagle putt on #13 at the masters, but he put too much on it and it ran past the hole and off the green into Rae's Creek. One of Tiger's options, and the one he chose to execute, was a rare second putt from the same spot with a 1 stroke penalty.  T

The Tiger situation was one of two, the other also occurring in a major (but not at Augusta), where the option might be considered.  

[Missouri Swede]

2 hours ago, HonestyPolicy said:

No the ball must be either unplayable, lost, or in a hazard to go back to the previous spot.

Incorrect. See the post from @Asheville above.

 

2 hours ago, HonestyPolicy said:

You just can't take a penalty stroke and re-putt from the previous spot because you feel like it.

Yes, you may.

 

2 hours ago, HonestyPolicy said:

Even if you could why would you?

Let’s say you’re playing in the US Open with really fast greens. A putt misses the hole and goes farther than you thought it would and it’s headed off the green. WAY off the green. 

You might be tempted to run up and try to stop it before it rolls off by putting it back before it stops. But you’re smart enough to know that’s not allowed by the rules. So let it run off, come to a stop, then use this rule to get it back on the green and this time sink the putt. 

It could happen. 

[Asheville]

8 hours ago, HonestyPolicy said:

No the ball must be either unplayable, lost, or in a hazard to go back to the previous spot. You just can't take a penalty stroke and re-putt from the previous spot because you feel like it. Even if you could why would you?

The only time I can think of when you have the option to replay from the previous spot on the green would be if the ball was lost by putting off the green and say into a water hazard. That being said, I do remember years ago Tiger had an eagle putt on #13 at the masters, but he put too much on it and it ran past the hole and off the green into Rae's Creek. One of Tiger's options, and the one he chose to execute, was a rare second putt from the same spot with a 1 stroke penalty.  T

In case you missed it, R27-1a says:

At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.

[alleztom]

6 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

Let’s say you’re playing in the US Open with really fast greens. A putt misses the hole and goes farther than you thought it would and it’s headed off the green. WAY off the green. 

You might be tempted to run up and try to stop it before it rolls off by putting it back before it stops. But you’re smart enough to know that’s not allowed by the rules. So let it run off, come to a stop, then use this rule to get it back on the green and this time sink the putt. 

It could happen. 

Very unlikely I think, can't imagine this happening at the local muni let alone the US Open 😂 - fantastic!

[Fourputt]

On 6/18/2018 at 11:59 AM, HonestyPolicy said:

No the ball must be either unplayable, lost, or in a hazard to go back to the previous spot. You just can't take a penalty stroke and re-putt from the previous spot because you feel like it. Even if you could why would you?

The only time I can think of when you have the option to replay from the previous spot on the green would be if the ball was lost by putting off the green and say into a water hazard. That being said, I do remember years ago Tiger had an eagle putt on #13 at the masters, but he put too much on it and it ran past the hole and off the green into Rae's Creek. One of Tiger's options, and the one he chose to execute, was a rare second putt from the same spot with a 1 stroke penalty.  T

Actually yes, you can.  It's is totally up to the player's discretion in deciding to replay a shot under penalty of stroke and distance.

[jlbos83]

On 6/18/2018 at 10:59 AM, HonestyPolicy said:

No the ball must be either unplayable, lost, or in a hazard to go back to the previous spot. You just can't take a penalty stroke and re-putt from the previous spot because you feel like it. Even if you could why would you?

The only time I can think of when you have the option to replay from the previous spot on the green would be if the ball was lost by putting off the green and say into a water hazard. That being said, I do remember years ago Tiger had an eagle putt on #13 at the masters, but he put too much on it and it ran past the hole and off the green into Rae's Creek. One of Tiger's options, and the one he chose to execute, was a rare second putt from the same spot with a 1 stroke penalty.  T

The player can choose to call his ball unplayable in any circumstance.  He is the only judge of this.  In the case you mention here he was taking one of the water hazard options, rather than an unplayable lie.  One could decide his ball sitting right next to the hole is unplayable, and go back to where he hit previously, at the cost a stroke.  Of course, he could be rightfully called a sandbagger, at that point!