Johnny Miller's Legacy

[iacas]

8 hours ago, BallMarker said:

He's kinda like Phil Mickelson in that they both had to deal with a very dominate opponent, Nicklaus and Woods.

Phil has 43 PGA Tour wins and five majors.

Johnny has 25 PGA Tour wins and two majors. Against weaker competition top to bottom.

I can know all about his playing career and still rank his broadcasting as a bigger deal.

[turtleback]

11 hours ago, BallMarker said:

Either answer is ok.

Just wondering how many here remember Johnny Miller's playing days. 

Maybe those who answered his boardcasting, don't remember, or don't know, how good of a player he was.

He's kinda like Phil Mickelson in that they both had to deal with a very dominate opponent, Nicklaus and Woods.

Jack was nowhere near as dominant as Tiger, and Johnny was nowhere near the player Phil has been.  Miller had a couple of great years, but basically a mediocre rest of his career for a great golfer.  If you do the match play thing, pairing Miller's years with Phil's, Phil wins easily.

[No Mulligans]

I struggle to think of the names of any commentators that retired more than five years ago.  For me, and I believe many people, they fade from memory.  The only ones that come to mind, Howard Cosell, Frank Gifford (only because of his connection to Cosell), Vince Scully.

Sports celebrities I can remember a lot of them, too many to list.

By the majority he will mostly be remembered as a golfer.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by No Mulligans

[Sonoran]

He wouldn't be where he is now without the playing career. He was an awesome player, out there with Nicholas, Trevino, Player, and the likes. Someone said on here that the competition on the PGA wasn't so hot then. I beg to differ. His commentating is awesome as well. You gotta like the comments, and personality. Tells it like it is. 

[HJJ003]

37 minutes ago, Sonoran said:

omeone said on here that the competition on the PGA wasn't so hot then.

Competition in that time period was not as deep as it is now. Its off topic, but it is true. 

[turtleback]

12 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

I struggle to think of the names of any commentators that retired more than five years ago.  For me, and I believe many people, they fade from memory.  The only ones that come to mind, Howard Cosell, Frank Gifford (only because of his connection to Cosell), Vince Scully.

Sports celebrities I can remember a lot of them, too many to list.

By the majority he will mostly be remembered as a golfer.

 

Interesting, you remember a Hall of Fame all time NFL player - but only because of his connection with a broadcaster - and present this as evidence that playing legacy trumps announcing legacy.

I think there is something a little backwards there.

Gifford is actually an excellent example, as except among Giants fans his legacy is MNF and marrying Kathi Lee.  And he was a bigger star, as a player, than Miller ever was.

1 hour ago, Sonoran said:

He wouldn't be where he is now without the playing career. He was an awesome player, out there with Nicholas, Trevino, Player, and the likes. Someone said on here that the competition on the PGA wasn't so hot then. I beg to differ. His commentating is awesome as well. You gotta like the comments, and personality. Tells it like it is. 

He had one great year, one very good year, and a bunch of meh years.  Not even close to the level of Jack, Lee, or Gary.

[iacas]

12 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

By the majority he will mostly be remembered as a golfer.

In addition to what @turtleback said… the MAJORITY only ever knew him as an announcer.

And you remember more sports celebrities… because there are a lot more of them to remember. There's one Jim Nantz… and he covers hundreds, thousands of actual players. You probably remember a greater percentage of announcers than you do players who ever played.

In fact, that % probably isn't even CLOSE.

[Sonoran]

The equipment wasn't so great then, so that evens things out. Just saying.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, Sonoran said:

The equipment wasn't so great then, so that evens things out. Just saying.

No, it doesn't. In fact the opposite is more true.

Not only are players a lot better now, better equipment has further narrowed the gap between the game's best and those a notch or two below them.

Lotta other topics here about that stuff (though you may want to spell Nicklaus like that, and not "Nicholas," to find them).

[frank cichon]

I said broadcaster because he called it as honestly as possible. I believe he did not hang out with the player therefore he could do that. Most TV announcers today seem to be afraid of offending a player by not being honest with some  less than quality shots. The 63 he shot to win the US Open was as good a round of golf posted in my time (have played golf for over 60 years) in a Major. Straight ball hit...when players get  that hit it straight get hot with their irons...they knock the pin down. His driver and putter works well for him that day.

[turtleback]

12 hours ago, frank cichon said:

I said broadcaster because he called it as honestly as possible. I believe he did not hang out with the player therefore he could do that. Most TV announcers today seem to be afraid of offending a player by not being honest with some  less than quality shots. The 63 he shot to win the US Open was as good a round of golf posted in my time (have played golf for over 60 years) in a Major. Straight ball hit...when players get  that hit it straight get hot with their irons...they knock the pin down. His driver and putter works well for him that day.

Welcome to the board!  There is lots of great stuff here to explore.  I think you make a great point about Miller not relying on close contacts with the players and thereby not having to temper his honesty to avoid losing sources.

[Swooshgolf]

I believe he will be remembered for his playing career. I do think this would be more an age thing though. The younger players will remember him more for the broadcasting career and older for his playing career.

[frank cichon]

I will miss Johnny....do not recall him ever sugar coating a golf shot. A breath of fresh air in todays TV coverage. In my opinion he seldom talked too much.......what he said was worth hearing. Too short a playing career. Back in the 70's for 2-3 years (in the desert) they all played for 2nd place and his final round of the US Open he won was as perfect a round of golf that I saw played in my lifetime.

[inthehole]

I will deeply miss JM's broadcasting.     I LOVED his ability to say it like it is without a filter - NOBODY else will be able to bring that to golf.   I wish him well, but am sure gonna miss him...

[Kingkat1954]

I remember watching Miller during his playing days. It has been said that there were maybe 3 golfers that hit the ball pure; Hogan, Trevino and some say Miller. This was before Tiger. I watched the 63 at Oakmont and marveled at his accurate iron play that day. Amazing. His ability to hit his irons to exact yardages was awesome. And yes, he played against Nicklaus, and Weiskopf. His golf swing knowledge is greater than many other players. And yes, he was a good announcer. 

[TimBob]

He was a great player so that was my vote. Sometimes people tend to minimize just how rare great players are. The other side of this with him though is that his period of "greatness" was relatively short. And the reason for that, as with many players, is mental. Golf is a mental game on many levels. For many maintaining that mental edge over many years is not possible. He was an excellent broadcaster so you could certainly argue either way. One thing that I liked about his broadcasting was that he definitely provided a glimpse about how serious golfers actually think about the game, and he did that better than anybody, and all golfers could learn from that and become better players for it.

[Caveman59]

He was great at both for sure, but more so as a broadcaster.

[OurGolfStats]

Playing career.  I would have never paid any attention to his broadcasting, if he had not been such a great player - same as Nick Faldo.  And, nobody really pays attention to Gary Koch or Roger Maltbie's broadcasting.  I like them both, but they do not have the pedigree Miller had.  There was a time where I expected him to win every tournament that he entered - just like a stretch Tiger Woods had.  He definitely changed broadcasting by "telling it like it is", when all other broadcasters were afraid to criticize.  But, as far as legacy goes - playing career was amazing.